Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here, thank you to everyone who responded. They read these responses over the weekend and I think it helped them feel very supported knowing people out there actually cared about this issue.

Yesterday, they spoke to their guidance counselor who worked with the teacher to clarify the dress code. The teacher is now saying she meant no disrespect and only those who identify as boys vs girls need to wear the outfits...etc.

Not my favorite response, but my child feels good about it and plans on wearing pants (as well as several other girls who identify as girls) for their performance.

I’m glad your DD is happy, but I want to be clear that the teacher’s “fix” (“those who identify as boys versus girls need to
wear the outfits”) is still illegal discrimination under Title IX. No teacher should be requiring kids to wear a certain outfit based on the way they identify (neither in terms of gender, sexuality or biological sex).

What the teacher can say is that there are two outfits to wear - one with pants and one with a skirt - and all students need to be wearing one of those two outfits - whichever they prefer. Any student who feels like they will have trouble meeting the dress code should contact her and she will help to work something out. (This allows kids who cannot obtain or wear elements of the outfit to ask for support or accommodation.)

This is the end of Title IX. Your interpretation of it, you current interpretation of it, is taking it apart. OP's DC may benefit but a lot of girls will no longer benefit from Title IX.

No. Just no. You have some right wing apocalyptic view that if people are obligated not to discriminate on the basis of sex or gender, the world will fall apart. Title IX helps all women. I know girls in sports who lack equal facilities and opportunities who are helped by Title IX. It helped my DD when the school was overly focused on bra straps showing and too short shorts to the extent girls were being denied class time for dress code violations. It helped when DD’s school had “slap ass week”. It helps girls who have been raped or sexually assaulted or sexually harassed at school by teachers or peers.

Do you really think Title IX will fall apart because some women (both gay and straight) want to wear pants instead if a skirt? Or that one or two boys may wear a skirt?

I frankly wish that schools would worry less about gender policing and more about teaching reading and math. The amount of time teachers and principals spent policing bra straps could have been much better spent fixing the atrocious math teaching.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here, thank you to everyone who responded. They read these responses over the weekend and I think it helped them feel very supported knowing people out there actually cared about this issue.

Yesterday, they spoke to their guidance counselor who worked with the teacher to clarify the dress code. The teacher is now saying she meant no disrespect and only those who identify as boys vs girls need to wear the outfits...etc.

Not my favorite response, but my child feels good about it and plans on wearing pants (as well as several other girls who identify as girls) for their performance.

I’m glad your DD is happy, but I want to be clear that the teacher’s “fix” (“those who identify as boys versus girls need to
wear the outfits”) is still illegal discrimination under Title IX. No teacher should be requiring kids to wear a certain outfit based on the way they identify (neither in terms of gender, sexuality or biological sex).

What the teacher can say is that there are two outfits to wear - one with pants and one with a skirt - and all students need to be wearing one of those two outfits - whichever they prefer. Any student who feels like they will have trouble meeting the dress code should contact her and she will help to work something out. (This allows kids who cannot obtain or wear elements of the outfit to ask for support or accommodation.)

This is the end of Title IX. Your interpretation of it, you current interpretation of it, is taking it apart. OP's DC may benefit but a lot of girls will no longer benefit from Title IX.

That's quite a stretch to go from one child fixing a situation to the end of Title IX as we know it.

"One child"? It's not just one child. Are you reading this thread?

I think the poster meant "the OP's child" as the one child.

Anonymous wrote:My teen has been playing in the orchestra since they were in early elementary. They love playing it's something they have found solace in during some really tough times. They know they aren't ever going to be a professional, but it's something they enjoy and we encourage.

This year, they have a new teacher who is very old school about music. I've told my child that not everyone is going to be supportive of how they choose to live (non-binary) and they really have gotten to a place in their life where they are ok with judgement. There is a big recital coming up (their first with the new teacher) and the teacher is forcing all girls to wear dresses and boys to wear pants. She (the teacher) has told my child since they are a girl, they must wear a skirt. My child does not identify that way an wants to wear pants. They were told - no skirt, no performance (which means an F in the class). I'm outraged but my child doesn't want to make a big deal out of it.

Not sure what to do - they plan to wear a skirt, but I know they are upset because I hear them on the phone with a friend discussing it. I'm just so pissed about the whole thing.

Rules are rules. Suck it up!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here, thank you to everyone who responded. They read these responses over the weekend and I think it helped them feel very supported knowing people out there actually cared about this issue.

Yesterday, they spoke to their guidance counselor who worked with the teacher to clarify the dress code. The teacher is now saying she meant no disrespect and only those who identify as boys vs girls need to wear the outfits...etc.

Not my favorite response, but my child feels good about it and plans on wearing pants (as well as several other girls who identify as girls) for their performance.

I’m glad your DD is happy, but I want to be clear that the teacher’s “fix” (“those who identify as boys versus girls need to
wear the outfits”) is still illegal discrimination under Title IX. No teacher should be requiring kids to wear a certain outfit based on the way they identify (neither in terms of gender, sexuality or biological sex).

What the teacher can say is that there are two outfits to wear - one with pants and one with a skirt - and all students need to be wearing one of those two outfits - whichever they prefer. Any student who feels like they will have trouble meeting the dress code should contact her and she will help to work something out. (This allows kids who cannot obtain or wear elements of the outfit to ask for support or accommodation.)

This is the end of Title IX. Your interpretation of it, you current interpretation of it, is taking it apart. OP's DC may benefit but a lot of girls will no longer benefit from Title IX.

That's quite a stretch to go from one child fixing a situation to the end of Title IX as we know it.

"One child"? It's not just one child. Are you reading this thread?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here, thank you to everyone who responded. They read these responses over the weekend and I think it helped them feel very supported knowing people out there actually cared about this issue.

Yesterday, they spoke to their guidance counselor who worked with the teacher to clarify the dress code. The teacher is now saying she meant no disrespect and only those who identify as boys vs girls need to wear the outfits...etc.

Not my favorite response, but my child feels good about it and plans on wearing pants (as well as several other girls who identify as girls) for their performance.

I’m glad your DD is happy, but I want to be clear that the teacher’s “fix” (“those who identify as boys versus girls need to
wear the outfits”) is still illegal discrimination under Title IX. No teacher should be requiring kids to wear a certain outfit based on the way they identify (neither in terms of gender, sexuality or biological sex).

What the teacher can say is that there are two outfits to wear - one with pants and one with a skirt - and all students need to be wearing one of those two outfits - whichever they prefer. Any student who feels like they will have trouble meeting the dress code should contact her and she will help to work something out. (This allows kids who cannot obtain or wear elements of the outfit to ask for support or accommodation.)

This is the end of Title IX. Your interpretation of it, you current interpretation of it, is taking it apart. OP's DC may benefit but a lot of girls will no longer benefit from Title IX.

That's quite a stretch to go from one child fixing a situation to the end of Title IX as we know it.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here, thank you to everyone who responded. They read these responses over the weekend and I think it helped them feel very supported knowing people out there actually cared about this issue.

Yesterday, they spoke to their guidance counselor who worked with the teacher to clarify the dress code. The teacher is now saying she meant no disrespect and only those who identify as boys vs girls need to wear the outfits...etc.

Not my favorite response, but my child feels good about it and plans on wearing pants (as well as several other girls who identify as girls) for their performance.

I’m glad your DD is happy, but I want to be clear that the teacher’s “fix” (“those who identify as boys versus girls need to
wear the outfits”) is still illegal discrimination under Title IX. No teacher should be requiring kids to wear a certain outfit based on the way they identify (neither in terms of gender, sexuality or biological sex).

What the teacher can say is that there are two outfits to wear - one with pants and one with a skirt - and all students need to be wearing one of those two outfits - whichever they prefer. Any student who feels like they will have trouble meeting the dress code should contact her and she will help to work something out. (This allows kids who cannot obtain or wear elements of the outfit to ask for support or accommodation.)

This is the end of Title IX. Your interpretation of it, you current interpretation of it, is taking it apart. OP's DC may benefit but a lot of girls will no longer benefit from Title IX.

Anonymous wrote:OP here, thank you to everyone who responded. They read these responses over the weekend and I think it helped them feel very supported knowing people out there actually cared about this issue.

Yesterday, they spoke to their guidance counselor who worked with the teacher to clarify the dress code. The teacher is now saying she meant no disrespect and only those who identify as boys vs girls need to wear the outfits...etc.

Not my favorite response, but my child feels good about it and plans on wearing pants (as well as several other girls who identify as girls) for their performance.

I’m glad your DD is happy, but I want to be clear that the teacher’s “fix” (“those who identify as boys versus girls need to
wear the outfits”) is still illegal discrimination under Title IX. No teacher should be requiring kids to wear a certain outfit based on the way they identify (neither in terms of gender, sexuality or biological sex).

What the teacher can say is that there are two outfits to wear - one with pants and one with a skirt - and all students need to be wearing one of those two outfits - whichever they prefer. Any student who feels like they will have trouble meeting the dress code should contact her and she will help to work something out. (This allows kids who cannot obtain or wear elements of the outfit to ask for support or accommodation.)

Previous poster w a similar issues resolved via an email. I am v happy to see this update. You handled this beautifully and with excellent guidance toward your child. I am hopeful they have a wonderful performance!

OP here, thank you to everyone who responded. They read these responses over the weekend and I think it helped them feel very supported knowing people out there actually cared about this issue.

Yesterday, they spoke to their guidance counselor who worked with the teacher to clarify the dress code. The teacher is now saying she meant no disrespect and only those who identify as boys vs girls need to wear the outfits...etc.

Not my favorite response, but my child feels good about it and plans on wearing pants (as well as several other girls who identify as girls) for their performance.

Anonymous wrote:My teen has been playing in the orchestra since they were in early elementary. They love playing it's something they have found solace in during some really tough times. They know they aren't ever going to be a professional, but it's something they enjoy and we encourage.

This year, they have a new teacher who is very old school about music. I've told my child that not everyone is going to be supportive of how they choose to live (non-binary) and they really have gotten to a place in their life where they are ok with judgement. There is a big recital coming up (their first with the new teacher) and the teacher is forcing all girls to wear dresses and boys to wear pants. She (the teacher) has told my child since they are a girl, they must wear a skirt. My child does not identify that way an wants to wear pants. They were told - no skirt, no performance (which means an F in the class). I'm outraged but my child doesn't want to make a big deal out of it.

Not sure what to do - they plan to wear a skirt, but I know they are upset because I hear them on the phone with a friend discussing it. I'm just so pissed about the whole thing.

Are you in public school? Write a letter to the principal and cc the teacher, the Title IX coordinator for the school system, and your local ACLU chapter. Explain that requiring specific dress code by gender is a violation of Title IX and the equal protection clause of the Constitution. Close your letter by saying that you expect the teacher to confirm in class within 48 hours that students may choose either the pants or a skirt performance attire option. I guarantee you, if yoh email those 4 people, the problem will be fixed pronto.

See more from the ACLU - https://www.aclu.org/news/womens-rights/4-things-public-schools-can-and-cant-do-dress-codes
“Dress codes can’t be explicitly discriminatory. That means that while dress codes may specify types of attire that are acceptable, these requirements may not differ based on students’ gender, race, religion, or other protected characteristics. Under federal laws protecting against discrimination in education – including Title IX, Title VI, and the U.S. Constitution’s equal protection guarantee, public schools cannot enforce a dress code based on gender- or race-based stereotypes about appropriate dress or appearance. For example, a public school cannot require girls, and only girls, to wear skirts or dresses, or require boys, but not girls, to wear short hair. This also goes for special events and occassions – such as prom, graduation, or yearbook photos. For example, while a public school can require “formal attire” to be worn at special events, it may not require that girls, and only girls, wear gowns – or that boys, and only boys, wear a suit.

Honestly, if I were your daughter I would be organizing the entire orchestra to cross-dress just to prove a point.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I get wanting to respect that your kid doesn't want a confrontation, but I would
-inquire with the teacher
-If she says girls must wear skirts and she won't reconsider, I would take it to the principal

It just inappropriate in 2022 to force women to wear pants or dresses, and particularly so at a public school. Is the teacher going to say that girls can't wear headscarves because it's not part of the required outfit? I don't think you even need to bring gender identity into the conversation.

Exactly this

Eta exactly this, but follow your kid’s lead.

Anonymous wrote:I get wanting to respect that your kid doesn't want a confrontation, but I would
-inquire with the teacher
-If she says girls must wear skirts and she won't reconsider, I would take it to the principal

It just inappropriate in 2022 to force women to wear pants or dresses, and particularly so at a public school. Is the teacher going to say that girls can't wear headscarves because it's not part of the required outfit? I don't think you even need to bring gender identity into the conversation.

Exactly this

If my child didn't want to make a big deal about it I would still (with their permission), talk to someone in the administration about the big picture, long-term issue with this teacher -- if for no other reason than to help other families who are going to run into the same problem. I would start with a friendly contact (guidance counselor, school counselor, LGBTQ-friendly teacher) to ask for advice.

Anonymous wrote:I was in a similar situation with my kid last year. The person in charge of graduation insisted she wear a skirt/dress.

I responded to the “policy” email, politely asking for clarification and citing that my kid had worn pants to literally every single function during her time at the school, and to insist at this point seemed that perhaps the information had not been updated.

I cc’d the principal and dean of students as an fyi. The principal emailed me almost immediately that my kid could of course wear pants AND they found my kid to make sure she got the message.

I guess my point is that this is a big deal. You should escalate it to the next step and get clarification. And you can do so without starting off aggressively.

Good luck to you.

I would be shocked if one CC to the principal didn't get this cleared up. I would bet the teacher simply doesn't understand the school's policy. And the Principal will be happy to clarify if this is the case.