Anonymous
12/05/2022 10:23
Subject: Are door wreaths religious?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Lol “averse to Christmas?”
you sound judgmental AF.
This is so mean. I grew up in a religious Jewish home and my mother was extremely "averse to Christmas" and drew offense at anything related to Christmas. I was not because she was judgmental. It was because she was forced to practice Christian customs as a child even though she was Jewish. This includes saying daily prayers in public school. There is a long-standing tradition of expecting non-Christians to celebrate the birth of someone else's Lord and Savior and it's offensive. A Christmas-style wreath would never have been displayed in her home.
Same - all of it. I think only Christians think wreaths are totally secular, honestly. I was just thinking about this yesterday because I saw a nice holiday flag in front of someone's house, who I know is Jewish - and it just struck me how much those lessons from my childhood stuck. We don't decorate for Christmas - not even adjacent to Christmas. Maybe one day I will get over that and put up some festive stuff, but now it still feels wrong.
I think there’s a difference between trying to retain Jewish (or Muslim or Hindi) traditions in a US culture that sometimes shoves Christianity at you, and being agnostic/atheist. I’m atheist but we do a holiday tree, put lights around the house, exchange gifts, and do things like attend holiday markets and bake holiday treats. To me it is just a way to get through winter, and I’m of European pagan ancestry so I view all those traditions as belonging to my German, Scandi, and Irish heritage. But I don’t believe Jesus was the son of god and am not Christian. I wouldn’t put up a nativity scene or an advent wreath, but I’d put up an evergreen wreath or red and green lights.
That's probably right. And I wonder if the fact that I am a very very secular Jew influences my thoughts here, too - basically, being a secular Jew means you are NOT Christian. It's always standing in opposition to the dominant culture in the US - the Christian culture. Maybe if I were more reliigious myself, I'd also feel more comfortable dabbling in things like wreaths and Christmas decorations.
Hm. I need to think on this.
Yes, I think the people who argue that decorated pine trees, wreaths, Santa, etc. are not Christian are generally people who come from culturally Christian backgrounds--they may not be religious themselves, but if you go back in their family tree far enough (and it's usually not too far!) you'll see that their family is Christian. As a Jew, all of these things read Christian to me--maybe not religious, but culturally Christian. I think it's a bit of majority privilege to insist that these things have nothing to do with Christmas, or even that Christmas is no longer a Christian holiday. It sure ain't a Jewish or Muslim holiday!
Anonymous
12/05/2022 10:20
Subject: Are door wreaths religious?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:https://time.com/5482144/christmas-wreath-origins/
Sorry, op. If it makes you feel better to somehow connect your wreath to ancient Athens - by all means. By its Christians who popularized the door wreath.
Did OP mention “ancient Athens”?
PPs tried to make wreaths some kind of pagan symbol
It's not a coincidence that hundreds of years after Jesus died the Church placed the two key events of his story at the same time of the year as two of the three major holidays that every European culture celebrates. If there was one thing the early Roman Christians were good at, it was appropriating pagan holidays and rituals.
It's not a coincidence that around the world, people have chosen to place joyful holidays at the darkest points in the year.
It's also not a coincidence that various cultures incorporated local customs into their religious traditions.
Neither of those things is some sinister plot. The Romans did all sorts of obnoxious things, but this pattern is something that has happened around the globe over and over again.
It doesn't change the fact that if someone sees a Christmas wreath on a door they will think the person inside probably celebrates Christmas in some manner.
Anonymous
12/05/2022 10:16
Subject: Are door wreaths religious?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Lol “averse to Christmas?”
you sound judgmental AF.
This is so mean. I grew up in a religious Jewish home and my mother was extremely "averse to Christmas" and drew offense at anything related to Christmas. I was not because she was judgmental. It was because she was forced to practice Christian customs as a child even though she was Jewish. This includes saying daily prayers in public school. There is a long-standing tradition of expecting non-Christians to celebrate the birth of someone else's Lord and Savior and it's offensive. A Christmas-style wreath would never have been displayed in her home.
Same - all of it. I think only Christians think wreaths are totally secular, honestly. I was just thinking about this yesterday because I saw a nice holiday flag in front of someone's house, who I know is Jewish - and it just struck me how much those lessons from my childhood stuck. We don't decorate for Christmas - not even adjacent to Christmas. Maybe one day I will get over that and put up some festive stuff, but now it still feels wrong.
I think there’s a difference between trying to retain Jewish (or Muslim or Hindi) traditions in a US culture that sometimes shoves Christianity at you, and being agnostic/atheist. I’m atheist but we do a holiday tree, put lights around the house, exchange gifts, and do things like attend holiday markets and bake holiday treats. To me it is just a way to get through winter, and I’m of European pagan ancestry so I view all those traditions as belonging to my German, Scandi, and Irish heritage. But I don’t believe Jesus was the son of god and am not Christian. I wouldn’t put up a nativity scene or an advent wreath, but I’d put up an evergreen wreath or red and green lights.
That's probably right. And I wonder if the fact that I am a very very secular Jew influences my thoughts here, too - basically, being a secular Jew means you are NOT Christian. It's always standing in opposition to the dominant culture in the US - the Christian culture. Maybe if I were more reliigious myself, I'd also feel more comfortable dabbling in things like wreaths and Christmas decorations.
Hm. I need to think on this.
Anonymous
12/05/2022 10:07
Subject: Are door wreaths religious?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Lol “averse to Christmas?”
you sound judgmental AF.
This is so mean. I grew up in a religious Jewish home and my mother was extremely "averse to Christmas" and drew offense at anything related to Christmas. I was not because she was judgmental. It was because she was forced to practice Christian customs as a child even though she was Jewish. This includes saying daily prayers in public school. There is a long-standing tradition of expecting non-Christians to celebrate the birth of someone else's Lord and Savior and it's offensive. A Christmas-style wreath would never have been displayed in her home.
Same - all of it. I think only Christians think wreaths are totally secular, honestly. I was just thinking about this yesterday because I saw a nice holiday flag in front of someone's house, who I know is Jewish - and it just struck me how much those lessons from my childhood stuck. We don't decorate for Christmas - not even adjacent to Christmas. Maybe one day I will get over that and put up some festive stuff, but now it still feels wrong.
I think there’s a difference between trying to retain Jewish (or Muslim or Hindi) traditions in a US culture that sometimes shoves Christianity at you, and being agnostic/atheist. I’m atheist but we do a holiday tree, put lights around the house, exchange gifts, and do things like attend holiday markets and bake holiday treats. To me it is just a way to get through winter, and I’m of European pagan ancestry so I view all those traditions as belonging to my German, Scandi, and Irish heritage. But I don’t believe Jesus was the son of god and am not Christian. I wouldn’t put up a nativity scene or an advent wreath, but I’d put up an evergreen wreath or red and green lights.
Anonymous
12/05/2022 10:03
Subject: Re:Are door wreaths religious?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I'm Jewish; we never had a wreath and I would assume that someone who had one on their door was celebrating Christmas, in the same way that I would assume that someone who had a decorated tree in their living room was celebrating Christmas. But in neither case would I assume that they were religious, as there are many people who celebrate Christmas but do not go to church.
If you are of another heritage or religion and do not celebrate Christmas and do not want others to think that you do, I wouldn't hang a wreath.
I know people who have wreaths for all seasons. It doesn’t really indicate anything other than “I am hanging a seasonal wreath on my door”.
Well yes, there are other kinds of wreaths.
For example, if you put this wreath on your door in October, people will not assume you are celebrating Christmas. They will assume you are celebrating Halloween.
https://www.potterybarn.com/products/faux-pre-lit-black-twig-bat-wreath-mp/?catalogId=84&sku=4490177&cm_ven=PLA&cm_cat=Google&cm_pla=Pillows%20%26%20Decor%20%3E%20Wreaths%20%26%20Garlands®ion_id=477340&cm_ite=4490177_14546951676&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI29XEidvi-wIVBo3ICh2CnAUXEAQYBCABEgJFnvD_BwE
There are winter wreaths that don't signal Christmas,
like this one:
https://www.potterybarn.com/products/silver-night-wreath-mp/?catalogId=84&sku=606857&cm_ven=PLA&cm_cat=Google&cm_pla=Pillows%20%26%20Decor%20%3E%20Wreaths%20%26%20Garlands®ion_id=477340&cm_ite=606857_14546951676&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIoOnn4tvi-wIVhbLICh1aZQopEAQYAyABEgJVIvD_BwE
But that doesn't sound like what OP is talking about.
As a Jew, that one signals Christmas to me.
Anonymous
12/05/2022 10:02
Subject: Are door wreaths religious?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:https://time.com/5482144/christmas-wreath-origins/
Sorry, op. If it makes you feel better to somehow connect your wreath to ancient Athens - by all means. By its Christians who popularized the door wreath.
Did OP mention “ancient Athens”?
PPs tried to make wreaths some kind of pagan symbol
It's not a coincidence that hundreds of years after Jesus died the Church placed the two key events of his story at the same time of the year as two of the three major holidays that every European culture celebrates. If there was one thing the early Roman Christians were good at, it was appropriating pagan holidays and rituals.
Anonymous
12/05/2022 10:01
Subject: Are door wreaths religious?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Lol “averse to Christmas?”
you sound judgmental AF.
This is so mean. I grew up in a religious Jewish home and my mother was extremely "averse to Christmas" and drew offense at anything related to Christmas. I was not because she was judgmental. It was because she was forced to practice Christian customs as a child even though she was Jewish. This includes saying daily prayers in public school. There is a long-standing tradition of expecting non-Christians to celebrate the birth of someone else's Lord and Savior and it's offensive. A Christmas-style wreath would never have been displayed in her home.
Same - all of it. I think only Christians think wreaths are totally secular, honestly. I was just thinking about this yesterday because I saw a nice holiday flag in front of someone's house, who I know is Jewish - and it just struck me how much those lessons from my childhood stuck. We don't decorate for Christmas - not even adjacent to Christmas. Maybe one day I will get over that and put up some festive stuff, but now it still feels wrong.
Anonymous
12/05/2022 09:59
Subject: Are door wreaths religious?
I'm a very very hardcore atheist (like, I would be totally fine if all religion is wiped off the face of the earth), but I love the christmas holiday traditions. I put up a wreath on my door and christmas lights outside
Anonymous
12/05/2022 09:56
Subject: Are door wreaths religious?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:This is a religious season. You are free to culturally appropriate our religious holiday as an excuse for consumption or home decor, but it doesn’t change the fact that a Christmas wreath is a Christmas wreath.
You have that backwards. Christians have co-opted pagan traditions and commercial efforts.
The only people who believe this are the people on this board who want to feel better about using a religious holiday of a faith they despise to feel a part of something cultural. Because the only culture they have left is ideology.
No, you are wrong. Christmas is not even supposed to happen this time of year based on the actual timing in the Bible. It was moved to coincide with winter solstice in order to co-opt existing celebrations and traditions around winter solstice. Nativity scenes, St. Nicholas, advent, Christmas mass? Christian. Trees and wreaths, lights and candles? Not Christian.
I’m not appropriating anything, I am celebrating the winter solstice a few days late in the tradition of my culture prior to the advent of Christianity.
Anonymous
12/05/2022 09:54
Subject: Re:Are door wreaths religious?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I'm Jewish; we never had a wreath and I would assume that someone who had one on their door was celebrating Christmas, in the same way that I would assume that someone who had a decorated tree in their living room was celebrating Christmas. But in neither case would I assume that they were religious, as there are many people who celebrate Christmas but do not go to church.
If you are of another heritage or religion and do not celebrate Christmas and do not want others to think that you do, I wouldn't hang a wreath.
I know people who have wreaths for all seasons. It doesn’t really indicate anything other than “I am hanging a seasonal wreath on my door”.
Well yes, there are other kinds of wreaths.
For example, if you put this wreath on your door in October, people will not assume you are celebrating Christmas. They will assume you are celebrating Halloween.
https://www.potterybarn.com/products/faux-pre-lit-black-twig-bat-wreath-mp/?catalogId=84&sku=4490177&cm_ven=PLA&cm_cat=Google&cm_pla=Pillows%20%26%20Decor%20%3E%20Wreaths%20%26%20Garlands®ion_id=477340&cm_ite=4490177_14546951676&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI29XEidvi-wIVBo3ICh2CnAUXEAQYBCABEgJFnvD_BwE
There are winter wreaths that don't signal Christmas,
like this one:
https://www.potterybarn.com/products/silver-night-wreath-mp/?catalogId=84&sku=606857&cm_ven=PLA&cm_cat=Google&cm_pla=Pillows%20%26%20Decor%20%3E%20Wreaths%20%26%20Garlands®ion_id=477340&cm_ite=606857_14546951676&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIoOnn4tvi-wIVhbLICh1aZQopEAQYAyABEgJVIvD_BwE
But that doesn't sound like what OP is talking about.
It sounds like OP is talking about a wreath made of winter greenery, which is not exclusive to Christians.
Anonymous
12/05/2022 09:53
Subject: Re:Are door wreaths religious?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I'm Jewish; we never had a wreath and I would assume that someone who had one on their door was celebrating Christmas, in the same way that I would assume that someone who had a decorated tree in their living room was celebrating Christmas. But in neither case would I assume that they were religious, as there are many people who celebrate Christmas but do not go to church.
If you are of another heritage or religion and do not celebrate Christmas and do not want others to think that you do, I wouldn't hang a wreath.
I know people who have wreaths for all seasons. It doesn’t really indicate anything other than “I am hanging a seasonal wreath on my door”.
Well yes, there are other kinds of wreaths.
For example, if you put this wreath on your door in October, people will not assume you are celebrating Christmas. They will assume you are celebrating Halloween.
https://www.potterybarn.com/products/faux-pre-lit-black-twig-bat-wreath-mp/?catalogId=84&sku=4490177&cm_ven=PLA&cm_cat=Google&cm_pla=Pillows%20%26%20Decor%20%3E%20Wreaths%20%26%20Garlands®ion_id=477340&cm_ite=4490177_14546951676&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI29XEidvi-wIVBo3ICh2CnAUXEAQYBCABEgJFnvD_BwE
There are winter wreaths that don't signal Christmas,
like this one:
https://www.potterybarn.com/products/silver-night-wreath-mp/?catalogId=84&sku=606857&cm_ven=PLA&cm_cat=Google&cm_pla=Pillows%20%26%20Decor%20%3E%20Wreaths%20%26%20Garlands®ion_id=477340&cm_ite=606857_14546951676&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIoOnn4tvi-wIVhbLICh1aZQopEAQYAyABEgJVIvD_BwE
But that doesn't sound like what OP is talking about.
Gourds and fall colors are seasonal by nature.
Pine trees and red berries are seasonal by nature.
If OP hot glues a baby Jesus on it then it’s religious, not seasonal.
Anonymous
12/05/2022 09:53
Subject: Are door wreaths religious?
Anonymous wrote:We are not a christian family, esp averse of christmas and the culture around it. But in our new home I got a wreath for the door, from trader joes so I can compost it later. DH thinks its too christmasy. Is it?
Get over yourselves.
Anonymous
12/05/2022 09:53
Subject: Re:Are door wreaths religious?
I'm agnostic and raised in a Christian religion. I put up a wreath and would assume that the people in a home with a wreath celebrate Christmas /have some connection to Christianity-although I do know a couple people who would probably be offended by that assumption because clearly THEY are celebrating Yule or Saturnalia.
Anonymous
12/05/2022 09:51
Subject: Are door wreaths religious?
Anonymous wrote:Winter solstice is celebrated by most cultures who experience short days and evergreens have been associated with those celebrations for far longer than Christianity has existed. If anything, Jesus’s birth was grafted onto those celebrations
This. We are secular humanists and we do a holiday tree with lights and evergreens around our home in the tradition of our European ancestors and as a way to brighten the dark, cold winter months. We don’t do anything Christian or even pseudo-Christian, like Santa, but we like the decor.
Anonymous
12/05/2022 09:50
Subject: Are door wreaths religious?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:This is a religious season. You are free to culturally appropriate our religious holiday as an excuse for consumption or home decor, but it doesn’t change the fact that a Christmas wreath is a Christmas wreath.
You have that backwards. Christians have co-opted pagan traditions and commercial efforts.
The only people who believe this are the people on this board who want to feel better about using a religious holiday of a faith they despise to feel a part of something cultural. Because the only culture they have left is ideology.
No, only the people who understand history. If you want to appear less ignorant, read up on the history of “Christmas”. And not just what your priest tells you to believe.