Anonymous wrote:Our house is very tidy. So much so that friend’s confessed they didn’t know if we could be friends when they first came over, lol). Step 1 is not having too much stuff. step 2 is everything having a home that a kid can figure out. Our shelves have clear bins so you can see everything, so they don’t dump out the animals if they are looking for a car. Step 3 is cleaning up every night. Takes a few minutes if you stay on top of it.

We let art supplies stay out all weekend on the table, but everything else gets cleaned up after they are done. Lego creations can stay on the mantle for 48 hours, and then they have to put them away (unless it’s a major Lego creation they actually play with, then that gets stored on a table). Our kids make giant messes. We clean them up when we are done (usually before a meal, or before heading out and before bed) and it takes 10-20 minutes tops.

It’s definitely effort but then we get to relax in a clean house, and that is worth it to us

Why the time limit? Why not cover the whole mantle in their creations? This is such a short period of life. It’s so sad. Lemme guess, no art work on the fridge either.

Anonymous wrote:So, this "play with one thing and clean up" idea people keep saying is terrible. I have a child with special needs and one therapist specifically talked about how great it was when kids were allowed to play with multiple things and really get create and expand their ideas (e.g., it's a hammer...but now it's a phone. And that doll dress is a bandage. And the block is a bottle.). She even managed to convince our really, really rigid home day care provider to let all the kids "mix the toys".

If Miss Tessie can let the kids mix the toys, you can too, OP. Let them play in their dedicated area and then clean up at the end of the day. Everything can go back in the right spot, just don't make them play in little categories.

I mean, sure. But I think there is a lot of room between “play with one thing and put it away” and toys every where chaos. Toys need homes. Take them out to play. Put them away at regular cadence. If your kid says they are actively using one of their creations (say a doll hospital made of blocks, PP), then clean around it and let them know the rules around leaving it out. I have a theory that toys everywhere posters are also laundry everywhere posters. Do the laundry, put it away.

So, this "play with one thing and clean up" idea people keep saying is terrible. I have a child with special needs and one therapist specifically talked about how great it was when kids were allowed to play with multiple things and really get create and expand their ideas (e.g., it's a hammer...but now it's a phone. And that doll dress is a bandage. And the block is a bottle.). She even managed to convince our really, really rigid home day care provider to let all the kids "mix the toys".

If Miss Tessie can let the kids mix the toys, you can too, OP. Let them play in their dedicated area and then clean up at the end of the day. Everything can go back in the right spot, just don't make them play in little categories.

Our house is very tidy. So much so that friend’s confessed they didn’t know if we could be friends when they first came over, lol). Step 1 is not having too much stuff. step 2 is everything having a home that a kid can figure out. Our shelves have clear bins so you can see everything, so they don’t dump out the animals if they are looking for a car. Step 3 is cleaning up every night. Takes a few minutes if you stay on top of it.

We let art supplies stay out all weekend on the table, but everything else gets cleaned up after they are done. Lego creations can stay on the mantle for 48 hours, and then they have to put them away (unless it’s a major Lego creation they actually play with, then that gets stored on a table). Our kids make giant messes. We clean them up when we are done (usually before a meal, or before heading out and before bed) and it takes 10-20 minutes tops.

It’s definitely effort but then we get to relax in a clean house, and that is worth it to us

A few things that really helped me:

-Getting toys reasonably organized. Reasonably organized meaning a bin for trains and tracks, another bin for costumes and accessories, another bin for legos, and so on, plus one final bin for all the random crap. When kids know where to find what they are looking for, they are less likely to dump out entire boxes looking for that one little toy car they want. There's a balance, though - too organized and it gets hard to clean up at the end, as I learned when I tried to organize their legos by piece type.

-Once the toys are organized, keep them that way. That requires some enforcement of the organizational scheme at first - reminding them trains go in the train bin, etc, and also just putting things in the right bin yourself at first until they catch on. Having signs with pictures on the bins helps if they can't see into them. Cleanup takes slightly longer than just throwing it all in one box, but the messes don't get as big as fast.

-Caving in and buying one of those ugly open storage shelving units to make it easier for kids, especially little ones, to find what they want and to clean up at the end:
[url]https://a.co/d/cZFVRAE[url]

Also, when the mess is in the basement and I don't want to deal with it, I just avoid the basement until I feel like dealing with it! Dealing with it sometimes means me cleaning, sometimes means making them clean, depending on how the week is going.

Another thing that helps when I am feeling tense about the mess is reminding myself how fast it can be to clean some of this stuff up. Even though the duplos and toy food have somehow managed to take over the entire basement, it can all be cleaned up in literally five minutes (if I'm the one doing the cleaning). Doesn't apply to every mess of course, but sometimes even when it looks like a bomb went off, its actually a very fast cleanup and it helps to remember that.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I never heard a eulogy for a mother that said "She was the best mom because she kept the place spic and span."

+1000

Nope, but being mentally healthy is an important quality for any parent. If you don’t understand that this is anxiety-inducing for some people, then good for you, you aren’t a “neat freak.” You would never tell someone who got anxiety over anything else that their needs need to come last so…what? Their kids can have a million toys out? Most early childhood educators would tell you that’s not healthy anyway.

We aren’t taking a wasteland of toys here. She said “clutter” gives her an anxiety attack. That is not healthy or normal. Normal, healthy people can tolerate the clutter and general mess of childhood just fine. Healthy people can adapt to their time of live and circumstances just fine. She’s not normal. She should get help for that.

DP but you aren’t listening to what the PP (or OP) are saying. There is no one “normal”. Some people at their baseline have higher anxiety than others, and some such people find that having a clean and organized house helps considerably with managing that anxiety. I am one such person.

We didn’t clean up the kitchen last night so this morning when I got up to give my DC breakfast, there were still a few dirty dishes next to the sink and the counter still had some clutter from when we were fixing dessert. It didn’t give me a panic attack, but it was an unwelcome sight. I cleaned it up and once the counter was clear and the dishes taken care of, I felt more relaxed. But my DH could walk past that small mess 10x and it wouldn’t bother him enough to want to clean it up until he had to prepare to ight’s dinner and needed a clear counter. Neither of us is abnormal or wrong, we’re just wired a little differently and need different things to feel our best.

I already gave OP some tips for dealing with toy mess when you are a neat freak upthread, so I won’t repeat them here. But I can tell you that telling someone “just be normal and stop caring about this” is not constructive. This is generally not something people can fundamentally change about themselves. You have to adapt and find ways to figure it out.

I told her to seek help. Disliking something and anxiety are two totally different things. Anxiety about clutter is not normal. Therapy can and does help people like this. It is affecting her daily life and how she interacts with her kids. The biological purpose of anxiety is to serve to protect you in situations that are dangerous or in which you need to focus. This is not such a situation. A histamine response is protective but when it is out of control it is harmful and is treated. Same thing. She is overreacting to this situation. I’m certain this isn’t the only situation in which she feels inappropriately anxious. The best way for her and her family to live more happily is for her to work on herself not bend everyone to her anxiety.

DP. Woof, I do not want to see what your house looks like. Lol that, to you, someone who gets anxious around clutter (entirely normal) should “seek help.” I only have to assume that people who throw that around as an insult is someone who, indeed, receives (or needs to receive) a lot of “help”.

If you think quivering like a meerkat at the sight of a hawk when you see a couple of pairs of shoes in the foyer and some dishes on the counter and legos out is normal then you are sadly mistaken. I know there is a whole contingent who thinks that being anxious is some kind of identity or excuse for not having to do the work it takes to be a normal, healthy human being. Its not normal. Most people go through life pretty free of anxiety. "Oh the kitchen is messy, I'll knock it out before I go to bed or I'll do it in the morning. Larlo is working on an epic lego creation on the kitchen table, we will eat dinner around it until it is done." Obsessing about things out of place is no way to live and can be treated, you just have to be willing to work on it, like most things in life. Your anxiety doesn't make you special. It makes you annoying.

Kids play is literally their work. When kids play, they're not just having fun, they're learning about the world. Building blocks are related to science, physics, architecture. Legos build fine motor skills and following directions. Art supplies promote creativity, fine motor skills, growing different sides of the brain. Dolls and pretend play are contributing to their language development and understanding of social interactions.

If you limit play you're limiting their potential. Childhood is so short. Soon they'll be foregoing legos for iPads and it's less chaotic, less messy, but not as good for their growing brains. Invest in their future selves now because later you'll be worried about their ability to focus and delay gratification because they're on their phones all the time.

I like a tidy house and was tired of cleaning up after my kids.

Recently I started a new policy. Any mess on the floor or kitchen table left when they go to bed, I put it in a bin and it goes away for a while.

I told them the new plan, an reminded them at night to give them time to clean up. I also helped them at first. My youngest would actually deliberately leave stuff on the ground he didn't care about so I would clean it up for him! So it's not fool proof.

Long-running projects are not included in this because I don't want to stifle things like working on a difficult jigsaw puzzle or whatever.

I also do a bit of tidying throughout the weekend days but don't mind doing a few minutes here and there.

It's a balance!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I never heard a eulogy for a mother that said "She was the best mom because she kept the place spic and span."

+1000

Nope, but being mentally healthy is an important quality for any parent. If you don’t understand that this is anxiety-inducing for some people, then good for you, you aren’t a “neat freak.” You would never tell someone who got anxiety over anything else that their needs need to come last so…what? Their kids can have a million toys out? Most early childhood educators would tell you that’s not healthy anyway.

We aren’t taking a wasteland of toys here. She said “clutter” gives her an anxiety attack. That is not healthy or normal. Normal, healthy people can tolerate the clutter and general mess of childhood just fine. Healthy people can adapt to their time of live and circumstances just fine. She’s not normal. She should get help for that.

DP but you aren’t listening to what the PP (or OP) are saying. There is no one “normal”. Some people at their baseline have higher anxiety than others, and some such people find that having a clean and organized house helps considerably with managing that anxiety. I am one such person.

We didn’t clean up the kitchen last night so this morning when I got up to give my DC breakfast, there were still a few dirty dishes next to the sink and the counter still had some clutter from when we were fixing dessert. It didn’t give me a panic attack, but it was an unwelcome sight. I cleaned it up and once the counter was clear and the dishes taken care of, I felt more relaxed. But my DH could walk past that small mess 10x and it wouldn’t bother him enough to want to clean it up until he had to prepare to ight’s dinner and needed a clear counter. Neither of us is abnormal or wrong, we’re just wired a little differently and need different things to feel our best.

I already gave OP some tips for dealing with toy mess when you are a neat freak upthread, so I won’t repeat them here. But I can tell you that telling someone “just be normal and stop caring about this” is not constructive. This is generally not something people can fundamentally change about themselves. You have to adapt and find ways to figure it out.

I told her to seek help. Disliking something and anxiety are two totally different things. Anxiety about clutter is not normal. Therapy can and does help people like this. It is affecting her daily life and how she interacts with her kids. The biological purpose of anxiety is to serve to protect you in situations that are dangerous or in which you need to focus. This is not such a situation. A histamine response is protective but when it is out of control it is harmful and is treated. Same thing. She is overreacting to this situation. I’m certain this isn’t the only situation in which she feels inappropriately anxious. The best way for her and her family to live more happily is for her to work on herself not bend everyone to her anxiety.

DP. Woof, I do not want to see what your house looks like. Lol that, to you, someone who gets anxious around clutter (entirely normal) should “seek help.” I only have to assume that people who throw that around as an insult is someone who, indeed, receives (or needs to receive) a lot of “help”.

Pp here.

Op, do you think it would help you if they had centers set up?

Books
Art supplies
Building toys, etc.

Have them clean up one center before starting the next. Try to allow crossover though. Sometimes those dinosaurs need to terrorize the dollhouse.

Anonymous wrote:Clean up two or three times a day. Lunchtime, bedtime and maybe dinner time.

I recall my aunt doing this. Toys had to be cleaned up before each meal and before bed. We (cousins and my siblings) could only play with a few things at once so it was quicker/easier to clean up.

I think it did sometimes put a dampner on things though. My kids would have the car mat out with a bunch of cars, and then added on with Lego. My aunt would have made them put one or the other away.

Establish routines for keeping things clean, but remember to let them be kids, too.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I never heard a eulogy for a mother that said "She was the best mom because she kept the place spic and span."

+1000

Nope, but being mentally healthy is an important quality for any parent. If you don’t understand that this is anxiety-inducing for some people, then good for you, you aren’t a “neat freak.” You would never tell someone who got anxiety over anything else that their needs need to come last so…what? Their kids can have a million toys out? Most early childhood educators would tell you that’s not healthy anyway.

We aren’t taking a wasteland of toys here. She said “clutter” gives her an anxiety attack. That is not healthy or normal. Normal, healthy people can tolerate the clutter and general mess of childhood just fine. Healthy people can adapt to their time of live and circumstances just fine. She’s not normal. She should get help for that.

DP but you aren’t listening to what the PP (or OP) are saying. There is no one “normal”. Some people at their baseline have higher anxiety than others, and some such people find that having a clean and organized house helps considerably with managing that anxiety. I am one such person.

We didn’t clean up the kitchen last night so this morning when I got up to give my DC breakfast, there were still a few dirty dishes next to the sink and the counter still had some clutter from when we were fixing dessert. It didn’t give me a panic attack, but it was an unwelcome sight. I cleaned it up and once the counter was clear and the dishes taken care of, I felt more relaxed. But my DH could walk past that small mess 10x and it wouldn’t bother him enough to want to clean it up until he had to prepare to ight’s dinner and needed a clear counter. Neither of us is abnormal or wrong, we’re just wired a little differently and need different things to feel our best.

I already gave OP some tips for dealing with toy mess when you are a neat freak upthread, so I won’t repeat them here. But I can tell you that telling someone “just be normal and stop caring about this” is not constructive. This is generally not something people can fundamentally change about themselves. You have to adapt and find ways to figure it out.

I told her to seek help. Disliking something and anxiety are two totally different things. Anxiety about clutter is not normal. Therapy can and does help people like this. It is affecting her daily life and how she interacts with her kids. The biological purpose of anxiety is to serve to protect you in situations that are dangerous or in which you need to focus. This is not such a situation. A histamine response is protective but when it is out of control it is harmful and is treated. Same thing. She is overreacting to this situation. I’m certain this isn’t the only situation in which she feels inappropriately anxious. The best way for her and her family to live more happily is for her to work on herself not bend everyone to her anxiety.

Make a game of putting away toys with the kids. You have to teach them early while they are still willing to listen to you.

There’s a song in Spanish that makes this fun and can be sung together. You can also do the “who can put 5 things away first!?” Okay, let’s try again!

Have bins to make clean up easy for the kids. Legos in one box, stuffed animals in another and so on.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I never heard a eulogy for a mother that said "She was the best mom because she kept the place spic and span."

+1000

Nope, but being mentally healthy is an important quality for any parent. If you don’t understand that this is anxiety-inducing for some people, then good for you, you aren’t a “neat freak.” You would never tell someone who got anxiety over anything else that their needs need to come last so…what? Their kids can have a million toys out? Most early childhood educators would tell you that’s not healthy anyway.

We aren’t taking a wasteland of toys here. She said “clutter” gives her an anxiety attack. That is not healthy or normal. Normal, healthy people can tolerate the clutter and general mess of childhood just fine. Healthy people can adapt to their time of live and circumstances just fine. She’s not normal. She should get help for that.

DP but you aren’t listening to what the PP (or OP) are saying. There is no one “normal”. Some people at their baseline have higher anxiety than others, and some such people find that having a clean and organized house helps considerably with managing that anxiety. I am one such person.

We didn’t clean up the kitchen last night so this morning when I got up to give my DC breakfast, there were still a few dirty dishes next to the sink and the counter still had some clutter from when we were fixing dessert. It didn’t give me a panic attack, but it was an unwelcome sight. I cleaned it up and once the counter was clear and the dishes taken care of, I felt more relaxed. But my DH could walk past that small mess 10x and it wouldn’t bother him enough to want to clean it up until he had to prepare to ight’s dinner and needed a clear counter. Neither of us is abnormal or wrong, we’re just wired a little differently and need different things to feel our best.

I already gave OP some tips for dealing with toy mess when you are a neat freak upthread, so I won’t repeat them here. But I can tell you that telling someone “just be normal and stop caring about this” is not constructive. This is generally not something people can fundamentally change about themselves. You have to adapt and find ways to figure it out.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I never heard a eulogy for a mother that said "She was the best mom because she kept the place spic and span."

+1000

Nope, but being mentally healthy is an important quality for any parent. If you don’t understand that this is anxiety-inducing for some people, then good for you, you aren’t a “neat freak.” You would never tell someone who got anxiety over anything else that their needs need to come last so…what? Their kids can have a million toys out? Most early childhood educators would tell you that’s not healthy anyway.

We aren’t taking a wasteland of toys here. She said “clutter” gives her an anxiety attack. That is not healthy or normal. Normal, healthy people can tolerate the clutter and general mess of childhood just fine. Healthy people can adapt to their time of live and circumstances just fine. She’s not normal. She should get help for that.