Anonymous wrote:Most people are not disciplined enough to consistently work productively from home.
Connecting to a zoom call while you are walking your dog and having your camera off is not the same as working.
You may think you are 100% focused on work or that you are great at multitasking but you are not.
People are biased towards thinking they work more and are more productive than they actually are.
Everyone thinks they are doing a great job from home but 1/3 people actually are while 2/3 are putting in less work

This argument I do not get.

For your work reviews, are you reviewed on how many hours you stared at a computer? How many hours your ass was attached to your chair?

When you say most people are not disciplined enough to work from home, do you ever produce work product? This is what I don't get. Sure, I don't type on a key board from 9 am to 5 pm every day like a robot, but I have deliverables I need to get done. I lead 3-4 calls a month which require agendas, presentations, usually with a few slides I've prepared, updates, information people need. I also write things we publish either in journals or on our website that gets marketed. If I didn't do these things, people would know I'm not disciplined LOL.

But also, the whole not paying attention on zoom so come into the office makes no sense. The only people you interact with during work is your team who works in an office with you? You don't have clients who you do a zoom call with? members? vendors? anyone outside your office?

Even before COVID, in my different jobs in the last ten years leading up to the pandemic, I was required to interact with people via conference calls about 75% of my time. Whether members and grantees when I worked for an association, or other teams around the country/clients when I worked for a big consulting firm, I didn't JUST interact with my team who was located near me. I had to figure out how to pay attention on calls.

I'm pretty much 100% remote now, and I won't ever go back (senior enough in my career I can say that confidently). My company actually ENCOURAGES walking meetings...go figure!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Collaboration, blah blah blah

This except my job doesn’t require collaboration, or when it does, it’s editing a document, which is more easily done on teams and sharing a screen. We even have data to show productivity loss from the time spent commuting…but collaboration, team
Building, bla-bla-bla

Yup, same.

People in our agency are being required to go in 1x per week or 2x per pay period. I am remote but on days that I go in, it's a ghost town. Very few people, no meetings are being conducted in person, everything is still on teams, and nobody is actually collaborating and nothing has been suggested by management to facilitate such collaboration. It's just butts in seats in a dreary, rat infested building.

I've heard people use this description of our office. They are wrong (except for the rats). There is so much more efficiency and creativity in person for many things.

Examples?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The elephant in the room is that managers get an ego boost from having their team physically present. That's what the resistance to telework boils down to in most instances. Unfortunately, the young generation coming up isn't going to re-arrange their lives so that managers can feel like "the boss".

Have you ever been a manager? Sure some managers are egotistical, but not the majority.

Yes, I have been a manager. I agree with you, and it is the minority who are egotistical that are behind the push to return people to the office.

Anonymous wrote:The elephant in the room is that managers get an ego boost from having their team physically present. That's what the resistance to telework boils down to in most instances. Unfortunately, the young generation coming up isn't going to re-arrange their lives so that managers can feel like "the boss".

Have you ever been a manager? Sure some managers are egotistical, but not the majority.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Collaboration, blah blah blah

This except my job doesn’t require collaboration, or when it does, it’s editing a document, which is more easily done on teams and sharing a screen. We even have data to show productivity loss from the time spent commuting…but collaboration, team
Building, bla-bla-bla

Yup, same.

People in our agency are being required to go in 1x per week or 2x per pay period. I am remote but on days that I go in, it's a ghost town. Very few people, no meetings are being conducted in person, everything is still on teams, and nobody is actually collaborating and nothing has been suggested by management to facilitate such collaboration. It's just butts in seats in a dreary, rat infested building.

I've heard people use this description of our office. They are wrong (except for the rats). There is so much more efficiency and creativity in person for many things.

How? How is your work more efficient or creative in the office? Give actual examples because this sounds like bunk. Forcing people to commute for an hour each way to sit in a cubicle alone is the opposite of creative or efficient.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Collaboration, blah blah blah

This except my job doesn’t require collaboration, or when it does, it’s editing a document, which is more easily done on teams and sharing a screen. We even have data to show productivity loss from the time spent commuting…but collaboration, team
Building, bla-bla-bla

Yup, same.

People in our agency are being required to go in 1x per week or 2x per pay period. I am remote but on days that I go in, it's a ghost town. Very few people, no meetings are being conducted in person, everything is still on teams, and nobody is actually collaborating and nothing has been suggested by management to facilitate such collaboration. It's just butts in seats in a dreary, rat infested building.

I've heard people use this description of our office. They are wrong (except for the rats). There is so much more efficiency and creativity in person for many things.

I mean…not when you go in and don’t actually talk to anyone about work. I might work in PP’s rat infested buildings. We go in 1/week and there’s some socializing but I haven’t had any work related in person discussions because the people I actually collaborate with for the most part are in a different geographic location in the first place. I do think socializing has some benefits and I think the workplace into the future may be different in that way but coming in just for some chit chat which may or may not happen depending on who else is there that day seems pretty silly.

Only reason for our agency is because our SES (a miserable person) enjoys the control and ego boost.

WFH eases the burden of work for many.

,,,but how does one assert power over others?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Collaboration, blah blah blah

This except my job doesn’t require collaboration, or when it does, it’s editing a document, which is more easily done on teams and sharing a screen. We even have data to show productivity loss from the time spent commuting…but collaboration, team
Building, bla-bla-bla

Yup, same.

People in our agency are being required to go in 1x per week or 2x per pay period. I am remote but on days that I go in, it's a ghost town. Very few people, no meetings are being conducted in person, everything is still on teams, and nobody is actually collaborating and nothing has been suggested by management to facilitate such collaboration. It's just butts in seats in a dreary, rat infested building.

I've heard people use this description of our office. They are wrong (except for the rats). There is so much more efficiency and creativity in person for many things.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Quiet quit is real. In many cases, people aren’t doing sufficient work for their salary. With WFH there is not the accountability for one’s time like in the office. When you add quiet quit and lack of real collaboration, there is a productivity and innovation gap that is real.

Thanks to teams, I can literally see who is online. I’m seeing far too many yellow or blank bubbles. Like, all the time during core hours. Then I’ll notice a flurry of emails late in the day for maybe 15 minutes.

That’s why we need people in the office.

that’s idiotic. you can game teams to make it appear you are in a call, or you can appear “away” when you’re actually working on other apps.

The elephant in the room is that managers get an ego boost from having their team physically present. That's what the resistance to telework boils down to in most instances. Unfortunately, the young generation coming up isn't going to re-arrange their lives so that managers can feel like "the boss".

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Quiet quit is real. In many cases, people aren’t doing sufficient work for their salary. With WFH there is not the accountability for one’s time like in the office. When you add quiet quit and lack of real collaboration, there is a productivity and innovation gap that is real.

Thanks to teams, I can literally see who is online. I’m seeing far too many yellow or blank bubbles. Like, all the time during core hours. Then I’ll notice a flurry of emails late in the day for maybe 15 minutes.

That’s why we need people in the office.

If you are a manager, why don't you try... managing? Like, have a conversation with those people about their availability and productivity.

If you are not a manager, it's none of your business unless your work is being interrupted, in which case... go to the manager.

I don't understand the purpose of having middle management if they cannot even do the most basic managing, but this is government we are talking about after all.

+1. The saying should be "no one wants to manage anymore" because all of the managers on these threads seem to be doing a terrible job.

There are ad hoc meetings that pop up that are better done in person, so I also agree that people should come in for those as needed.


These meetings can be done on teams. I prefer that they be done on teams rather than being trapped by a manager at a time of his choosing and listen to him drone on and on and on.

You are misunderstanding. It is not a routine team or staff meeting. It is with outside parties and not necessarily friendly in nature.