Anonymous wrote:OP here. TY for the various replies. Wondered if folks would think I was heartless but sounds like my reaction may be fairly normal. For more background, DH got involved in their finances about a year ago and it took some time to put the larger picture together. He is kind of shocked at what their burn rate must have been over the last 20-25 years to get to this point. TBH, he thinks it mainly went into these expensive vacations and renting a snow bird home for what really may be closer to 30 years along with not cutting any daily expenses (eating out 4-5x/week, the full menu of salon treatments, etc.). On the big ticket front, they started at six weeks in a condo, then kept increasing till they rented a house for about 3-4 months. DH DK yet, but thinks that there may have also been some money provided for college expenses for his two nieces.

He thinks that they can manage for awhile, longer than what he initially thought when we first talked last week. This is largely due to that they can no longer take trips or rent a home in winter as both his parents, but especially his dad, are not as mobile as they used to be. The house is paid off - they downsized 6 or 7 years ago - and is not that expensive to maintain. They are eating at home more as it is not as easy for them to get around. They are down to one car and this is also paid off. They still have their country club membership - DH thinks there may be two - and he is going to suggest that they let them go as they really do not use them as DH no longer golfs. (I have no idea what a CC membership costs as we do not belong to one, so DK what those savings will be.)

Aside from these trips, they were not necessarily profligate in their day to day, but they also didn't cut back some expenses as many folks do when they retire. We just spent the weekend with older retired friends and went window shopping one afternoon. Both of them were big shoppers back in the day, but only one of them bought something and it was both useful and reasonable.

DH wants to get them on a monthly budget and he doesn't anticipate there will be much push back. His mom has expressed some concern about their money and, as she is the one who is largely handling it these days, he thinks she will go for it. The real conundrum will probably be when one or both of them is no longer able to live in their home, then the money will go fairly fast if one or both moves into one of the retirement communities in which they have expressed interest. DH thinks their home is worth more than my estimate but also knows that the real estate market there is not as hot as the DMV.

Guess also part of what is chafing me is that my parents lived really modestly and spent their last few years in a retirement community that was a mix of private pay, Medicare rehab, and Medicaid. They were so clear they didn't want to be a burden (though my father would take money from me when out of sight from my mom). When they indulged, it was an ice cream cone, not a $30,000 cruise and similarly priced trips in other years. While my ILs didn't spend it on luxury cars and numerous fur coats, they probably should have taken just one or two big trips along with more modest winter rentals and called it a day.

Is now the time to have the convo about what might be the next housing options? I believe they have LTC insurance, but have no idea how generous the policy is and what is the cap on it, if any. Believe they have had it for a long time so may be generous.

DH wants to be a good son and is also a bit irked about the situation. He wants to get them on a budget and explore what are the best options. He is also very mindful about our circumstances - he knows I do not want to be rubbing 2 nickels together and working at Walgreen's in my 80s - and he doesn't want to put our family's livelihood at risk.

Should be interesting holidays. Thanks again for all who shared as well as good luck to others in similar circumstances.

OP it sounds like all the right things are already happening and that your ILs have been making changes and are willing to make more, and that they either asked your DH for help in getting finances in order or are willingly taking it. Your DH seems significantly less concerned than you are. My suggestion is that you try not to worry about it.

Anonymous wrote:OP, I don't think everything knows all that they need to know about the IL's finances. Including ILs. Emphasis on education, not judging.

???

OP here. TY for the various replies. Wondered if folks would think I was heartless but sounds like my reaction may be fairly normal. For more background, DH got involved in their finances about a year ago and it took some time to put the larger picture together. He is kind of shocked at what their burn rate must have been over the last 20-25 years to get to this point. TBH, he thinks it mainly went into these expensive vacations and renting a snow bird home for what really may be closer to 30 years along with not cutting any daily expenses (eating out 4-5x/week, the full menu of salon treatments, etc.). On the big ticket front, they started at six weeks in a condo, then kept increasing till they rented a house for about 3-4 months. DH DK yet, but thinks that there may have also been some money provided for college expenses for his two nieces.

He thinks that they can manage for awhile, longer than what he initially thought when we first talked last week. This is largely due to that they can no longer take trips or rent a home in winter as both his parents, but especially his dad, are not as mobile as they used to be. The house is paid off - they downsized 6 or 7 years ago - and is not that expensive to maintain. They are eating at home more as it is not as easy for them to get around. They are down to one car and this is also paid off. They still have their country club membership - DH thinks there may be two - and he is going to suggest that they let them go as they really do not use them as DH no longer golfs. (I have no idea what a CC membership costs as we do not belong to one, so DK what those savings will be.)

Aside from these trips, they were not necessarily profligate in their day to day, but they also didn't cut back some expenses as many folks do when they retire. We just spent the weekend with older retired friends and went window shopping one afternoon. Both of them were big shoppers back in the day, but only one of them bought something and it was both useful and reasonable.

DH wants to get them on a monthly budget and he doesn't anticipate there will be much push back. His mom has expressed some concern about their money and, as she is the one who is largely handling it these days, he thinks she will go for it. The real conundrum will probably be when one or both of them is no longer able to live in their home, then the money will go fairly fast if one or both moves into one of the retirement communities in which they have expressed interest. DH thinks their home is worth more than my estimate but also knows that the real estate market there is not as hot as the DMV.

Guess also part of what is chafing me is that my parents lived really modestly and spent their last few years in a retirement community that was a mix of private pay, Medicare rehab, and Medicaid. They were so clear they didn't want to be a burden (though my father would take money from me when out of sight from my mom). When they indulged, it was an ice cream cone, not a $30,000 cruise and similarly priced trips in other years. While my ILs didn't spend it on luxury cars and numerous fur coats, they probably should have taken just one or two big trips along with more modest winter rentals and called it a day.

Is now the time to have the convo about what might be the next housing options? I believe they have LTC insurance, but have no idea how generous the policy is and what is the cap on it, if any. Believe they have had it for a long time so may be generous.

DH wants to be a good son and is also a bit irked about the situation. He wants to get them on a budget and explore what are the best options. He is also very mindful about our circumstances - he knows I do not want to be rubbing 2 nickels together and working at Walgreen's in my 80s - and he doesn't want to put our family's livelihood at risk.

Should be interesting holidays. Thanks again for all who shared as well as good luck to others in similar circumstances.

OP, I don't think everything knows all that they need to know about the IL's finances. Including ILs. Emphasis on education, not judging.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm curious whether any of these people that are suggesting that these old people "reap what they sow" would REALLY let their own parents become destitute and/or not get the care they need in old age.

Yes, the ILs failed to plan. Yes, they should have. That was wrong.

But there is nothing in OP's post to indicate that they are overall bad people, were bad parents or bad grandparents. I couldn't imagine not helping them out if the need arises.

It sucks and I'm sorry OP, but my best advice is to just try to come to terms with it. Better yet, try not to think about it at all. It hasn't happened yet, and may not.

I would let my dad choose from Medicare funded homes when he got to the point of needing care. I wouldn’t fund some $10k a month nice place.

I would not let him be homeless either if he was at a phase where Medicare would not fund. But, it would be a studio apartment.

That said, my dad is a jerk and we are not super close. We are not estranged, but I don’t have some close relationship with him.

I think the bolded is the key. If you otherwise have a good relationship with the parents, you suck it up and help them out. The amount that you spend helping them out depends on your means, and how good of a relationship you have with them.

PP again. I agree with you, but even if my mom was still alive — whom I was very close with — I sincerely doubt I would fall for their emotional blackmail of wanting to sustain a particular lifestyle. I would be like “yep, you better let the bank foreclose if you let it get to that point. And I will pay for an apartment, utilities and food.” If they were both alive, I would probably go for a one bedroom instead of a studio if there were two of them. But, I am not a people pleaser and imminently practical.

Yep, this. I have my own future to think about. I won't leave you destitute but you're not maintaining your lifestyle on my dime. Should have planned better.

I'm going ot be in a similar circumstance too, and I am just dreading it.

My parents live a very austere life - nearly poverty level - in an RV community in the South. I need to start sending them money, I think, or at least traveling to see them more often as they are slowing down in their early 80s.

my inlaws, otoh - still live in the mortgaged large house, with a pool. FIL is having significant memory issues, so this might get bad. MIL - who insisted on spending throughout their lives - is now starting to get it that money is an issue. My DH's brother is a high earner but a big spender, too, and I know will put pressure on us for $$. And I definitely don't want to give it for them to keep up their lifestyle. BIL also only has one kid, and we have two for college expenses that are quickly approaching. I'm nervous.

If their house is paid off, could they consider a reverse mortgage to help cover living expenses? I know there are some downsides, but it may be worth looking into.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm curious whether any of these people that are suggesting that these old people "reap what they sow" would REALLY let their own parents become destitute and/or not get the care they need in old age.

Yes, the ILs failed to plan. Yes, they should have. That was wrong.

But there is nothing in OP's post to indicate that they are overall bad people, were bad parents or bad grandparents. I couldn't imagine not helping them out if the need arises.

It sucks and I'm sorry OP, but my best advice is to just try to come to terms with it. Better yet, try not to think about it at all. It hasn't happened yet, and may not.

I would let my dad choose from Medicare funded homes when he got to the point of needing care. I wouldn’t fund some $10k a month nice place.

I would not let him be homeless either if he was at a phase where Medicare would not fund. But, it would be a studio apartment.

That said, my dad is a jerk and we are not super close. We are not estranged, but I don’t have some close relationship with him.

I think the bolded is the key. If you otherwise have a good relationship with the parents, you suck it up and help them out. The amount that you spend helping them out depends on your means, and how good of a relationship you have with them.

PP again. I agree with you, but even if my mom was still alive — whom I was very close with — I sincerely doubt I would fall for their emotional blackmail of wanting to sustain a particular lifestyle. I would be like “yep, you better let the bank foreclose if you let it get to that point. And I will pay for an apartment, utilities and food.” If they were both alive, I would probably go for a one bedroom instead of a studio if there were two of them. But, I am not a people pleaser and imminently practical.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm curious whether any of these people that are suggesting that these old people "reap what they sow" would REALLY let their own parents become destitute and/or not get the care they need in old age.

Yes, the ILs failed to plan. Yes, they should have. That was wrong.

But there is nothing in OP's post to indicate that they are overall bad people, were bad parents or bad grandparents. I couldn't imagine not helping them out if the need arises.

It sucks and I'm sorry OP, but my best advice is to just try to come to terms with it. Better yet, try not to think about it at all. It hasn't happened yet, and may not.

I would let my dad choose from Medicare funded homes when he got to the point of needing care. I wouldn’t fund some $10k a month nice place.

I would not let him be homeless either if he was at a phase where Medicare would not fund. But, it would be a studio apartment.

That said, my dad is a jerk and we are not super close. We are not estranged, but I don’t have some close relationship with him.

I think the bolded is the key. If you otherwise have a good relationship with the parents, you suck it up and help them out. The amount that you spend helping them out depends on your means, and how good of a relationship you have with them.

Couple of thoughts:
-I think focusing on the fancy vacations, etc. is not helpful. A) they had the money at the time and probably just assumed -without really knowing- that they could swing it with no repercussions. And, B) I don't subscribe to the "you should never have a luxury even if not rich" crowd. I think splurges are fine sometimes. And really, what does it matter now?
-Having said all of that, their financial choices are their own. You are not obligated to maintain their lifestyle for them, esp. if you are not able to do so. Do not sacrifice your family's finances, for sure.
-They spend down and rely on the government benefits and whatever else you choose to do for them. Your MIL's not wanting to do that is irrelevant. And she's at your "mercy" so she doesn't really have a choice.
-You and your DH come to an agreement on what, if anything, you choose to help with. Then that needs to be unequivocally communicated to your inlaws so that they have appropriate expectations. Let them bi--- and whine but make sure your boundaries are fully communicated.

My parents didn't have much money and then sold their house and moved into a one bedroom in a 55+ community in my brothers name. They lived off social security and the money the earned from the sale of their house. When it came time for them - the were able to get medicare because the house wasn't in their name. It's possible.

Anonymous wrote:I'm curious whether any of these people that are suggesting that these old people "reap what they sow" would REALLY let their own parents become destitute and/or not get the care they need in old age.

Yes, the ILs failed to plan. Yes, they should have. That was wrong.

But there is nothing in OP's post to indicate that they are overall bad people, were bad parents or bad grandparents. I couldn't imagine not helping them out if the need arises.

It sucks and I'm sorry OP, but my best advice is to just try to come to terms with it. Better yet, try not to think about it at all. It hasn't happened yet, and may not.

I would let my dad choose from Medicare funded homes when he got to the point of needing care. I wouldn’t fund some $10k a month nice place.

I would not let him be homeless either if he was at a phase where Medicare would not fund. But, it would be a studio apartment.

That said, my dad is a jerk and we are not super close. We are not estranged, but I don’t have some close relationship with him.

I can't comprehend such a lack of self-awareness that you can't put the brakes on your burn rate...on your principle, no less.

OP, how much do they get in social security? Start with that and help them if you can, but at the end of the day, they need to change their lifestyle.

They blew a $2M inheritance?! I can't even imagine that NOT being enough money to live on for the rest of my life. Even if they had only invested 1/2 of it, they would have many more millions.

I don't know OP. I don't have advice for you. I would feel incredibly resentful. But I would also set a reasonable budget and tell them that's what you can afford. There may need to be a neutral 3rd party involved. And yes, downsizing now into an apartment is a good idea. Even if their house is paid off, there are still taxes to be paid. What is their SS benefit amount? They need to live within that NOW.

I'm curious whether any of these people that are suggesting that these old people "reap what they sow" would REALLY let their own parents become destitute and/or not get the care they need in old age.

Yes, the ILs failed to plan. Yes, they should have. That was wrong.

But there is nothing in OP's post to indicate that they are overall bad people, were bad parents or bad grandparents. I couldn't imagine not helping them out if the need arises.

It sucks and I'm sorry OP, but my best advice is to just try to come to terms with it. Better yet, try not to think about it at all. It hasn't happened yet, and may not.