Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why would anyone undertake such a study?

More evidence that the achievement gap starts in the home, not the school system.

This is probably the bigger issue if Asian's (and some others like us) supplement at home and put our kids in more academically geared preschools. Maybe we should start looking at the play based preschools that are not preparing kids for K.

Oh you guys! Always cutting your nose to spite your face, no? Make everything and everyone dumber. It will not prevent Asian-American parents from teaching their kids at home. Asian-Americans are educated parents. They will at least pass on their own skills and knowledge to their children.

Achievement gap is a symptom of a huge problem. The problem is that the home life of an underperforming student is typically not conducive to academic achievement. Achievement gap has nothing to with Asian-Americans. That is not the problem of Asian-Americans. It is a problem that Asians did not create, did not contribute, and can not solve. I don't understand why Asian-Americans are targeted because others are failing? Can you explain to me the logic of that?

Asians are often highly represented in magnet schools and academic competitions. There are people who want representation, and Asians make it harder to achieve it. Hence the hostility. It's in-group/out-group behavior.

Some of it's also cultural. For whatever reason, there's a disdain for nerds and strivers in this country, and many Asians fit that description. Sports is okay. Not academics.

But you're right. It's not really a problem Asians created.

This is a big factor. (Also the general anti-intellectualism in this country.) For example, my child has been taking classes for the past few years at AOPS. At pick-up time, the students who stream out of the building are 95% of East Asian and South Asian heritage. It’s a priority extracurricular for those families.

I challenge you to take a kid who does not have the brain power and interest in Math to sit and do AOPS. My Asian-American STEM magnet kid has been a straight A student who scored a 1600 in SAT. 5 in AP Calc BC in 10th grade etc. He was never able to sit and do Kumon or AOPS etc because it was not his cup of tea. He is capable in Math but he does not like Math more than anything else. For the 95% of Asians doing AOPS, it is something to do with the fact that it is a self-selecting crowd. A whole lot more Asian-Americans do not do AOPS. However, the fact that they are swimmers, tennis player, musicians, golfers, painters, debaters, martial artists ...all of these things are deliberately disregarded.

The problem for most people is mainly that Asian-Americans take each challenge and overcome it. A decade ago, Asian-Americans were good in Math but lagging behind in English. Now they excel in ELA and FL as well.

By having a civil war against Asian-Americans in academics, USA is harming itself. It is not as if other countries will also start NOT educating their children in solidarity with underperformers in USA.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: The answer is universal pre-k, late school closing and year round school. Any gap in the school schedule is an opportunity for parents to widen the socio - economic and racial gap for their own kids by supplementing privately. There shouldn’t be that gap in the system:

+1 In lower performing schools, this is what is needed. You need more time with those kids.

I believe there are two MCPS ES with high FARMS rate where they are experimenting with a lengthened school calendar. Not sure how long this has been happening. Will be interesting to see the outcome.

they tried the longer schedule in DC and it didn’t work.

I think until we realize the point is to make kids grind, longer days/years will not help.

classroom discipline is also a huge issue. we need to have a much shorter fuse for sending disruptive kids to alternative placements. or if not, more “gifted” programs to airlift the kids on/above grade level out of the bad schools.

Anonymous wrote: The answer is universal pre-k, late school closing and year round school. Any gap in the school schedule is an opportunity for parents to widen the socio - economic and racial gap for their own kids by supplementing privately. There shouldn’t be that gap in the system:

+1 In lower performing schools, this is what is needed. You need more time with those kids.

I believe there are two MCPS ES with high FARMS rate where they are experimenting with a lengthened school calendar. Not sure how long this has been happening. Will be interesting to see the outcome.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why would anyone undertake such a study?

More evidence that the achievement gap starts in the home, not the school system.

This is probably the bigger issue if Asian's (and some others like us) supplement at home and put our kids in more academically geared preschools. Maybe we should start looking at the play based preschools that are not preparing kids for K.

Oh you guys! Always cutting your nose to spite your face, no? Make everything and everyone dumber. It will not prevent Asian-American parents from teaching their kids at home. Asian-Americans are educated parents. They will at least pass on their own skills and knowledge to their children.

Achievement gap is a symptom of a huge problem. The problem is that the home life of an underperforming student is typically not conducive to academic achievement. Achievement gap has nothing to with Asian-Americans. That is not the problem of Asian-Americans. It is a problem that Asians did not create, did not contribute, and can not solve. I don't understand why Asian-Americans are targeted because others are failing? Can you explain to me the logic of that?

Asians are often highly represented in magnet schools and academic competitions. There are people who want representation, and Asians make it harder to achieve it. Hence the hostility. It's in-group/out-group behavior.

Some of it's also cultural. For whatever reason, there's a disdain for nerds and strivers in this country, and many Asians fit that description. Sports is okay. Not academics.

But you're right. It's not really a problem Asians created.

Asians are not highly represented in magnet schools and academic competitions. Academically high achieving kids are highly represented in magnet schools. A number of these kids happen to be Asian-Americans No school is taking in a low achieving Asian-American. Heck, these schools are not even taking in many, many, many extremely intelligent high achieving Asian-Americans because of their "quota" systems. No one worries about Asian-American talent being wasted.

The people who want representation in such programs need to simply become academically competitive. If they believe that their kids were also born with the same level of intelligence and talent, then what the hell did they do to their kids that they lost these gifts as they became older?

Asian American success is the success of a hard working community that prioritizes education and where the family unit puts the future of the child above all else. There is no easy formula for it. These parents and children work their butts off with a lot of discipline. No secret sauce to it.

You cannot have a culture of disdain for academic achievement (calling them "nerds" as you did) and then wonder why the other kids do not want to study and why they are at the bottom of the heap. These failing children are the responsibility of their parents. It is not as if Asian-Americans are fostering these children. OMG, you all cannot have it both ways.

Anonymous wrote:I m Asian and read to my kid at home.

Mostly reading are in our mother tongue . If it’s English book, I even explain to DS in my native language. He really start English when he s in kindergarten. He s now in grade 4 with advanced score in English. ( and math, of course)

Not sure what actually helps. We didn’t t try to have him read English books, but we did a lot of multi language lessens ( learn Chinese , learn My native language)

It's not what you read to your kid, but just that you are interacting with them at a level beyond feeding and clothing.

Studies have shown that the more verbal interaction you have with your child (not the yelling kind), the better they do in school.

We read to our kids (in English because my mother's native language is more foreign to me) from a young age, since they were babies. Obviously, they had no clue what we were reading, but it was the verbal interaction, pointing to the pictures, that increased their vocabulary.

My kids were reading well above grade level by the time they hit Ker. One was reading chapter books by aged 4. DC loved books. The library was one of their favorite places. We have spent a lot of time at libraries and used book stores.

I believe it is a combination of nurture and nature.

I am Asian American; my parents never read to me. They were poor immigrants from a family of farmers with very little education. I do recall that I was an advanced reader, though.

The answer is universal pre-k, late school closing and year round school. Any gap in the school schedule is an opportunity for parents to widen the socio - economic and racial gap for their own kids by supplementing privately. There shouldn’t be that gap in the system:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why would anyone undertake such a study?

More evidence that the achievement gap starts in the home, not the school system.

This is probably the bigger issue if Asian's (and some others like us) supplement at home and put our kids in more academically geared preschools. Maybe we should start looking at the play based preschools that are not preparing kids for K.

Oh you guys! Always cutting your nose to spite your face, no? Make everything and everyone dumber. It will not prevent Asian-American parents from teaching their kids at home. Asian-Americans are educated parents. They will at least pass on their own skills and knowledge to their children.

Achievement gap is a symptom of a huge problem. The problem is that the home life of an underperforming student is typically not conducive to academic achievement. Achievement gap has nothing to with Asian-Americans. That is not the problem of Asian-Americans. It is a problem that Asians did not create, did not contribute, and can not solve. I don't understand why Asian-Americans are targeted because others are failing? Can you explain to me the logic of that?

Asians are often highly represented in magnet schools and academic competitions. There are people who want representation, and Asians make it harder to achieve it. Hence the hostility. It's in-group/out-group behavior.

Some of it's also cultural. For whatever reason, there's a disdain for nerds and strivers in this country, and many Asians fit that description. Sports is okay. Not academics.

But you're right. It's not really a problem Asians created.

This is a big factor. (Also the general anti-intellectualism in this country.) For example, my child has been taking classes for the past few years at AOPS. At pick-up time, the students who stream out of the building are 95% of East Asian and South Asian heritage. It’s a priority extracurricular for those families.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To quote the study, "The antecedent factor of family socioeconomic status and the propensity factors of student science, mathematics, and reading achievement by kindergarten consistently explained whether students displayed advanced science or mathematics achievement during first, second, third, fourth, or fifth grade."

So this isn't about race, it's really about socioeconomic status of the family.

Race and SES are highly correlated

Not always. In NYC, for example, the Asian community there is among the poorest if not the poorest. Yet, they are highly represented in NYC magnet schools.

Highly correlated does not mean perfectly correlated but there is a strong connection. We can point to the outliers but those remain outliers.

Over a million kids are enrolled in NYC Public Schools. That's almost twice as large as the next public school district, Los Angeles USD. To put it into perspective NYC Public Schools has more students than all of Maryland and only somewhat less than Virginia. Only about 15 states have more students in their public schools.

It's the largest school system in the world, but sure, let's ignore NYC.

No one is ignoring NYC. As another poster pointed out, the number of kids in poverty attending the magnet schools is over exaggerated in the publics mind, those schools are still majority MC/UMC class kids. There is a higher percentage of kids who live in poverty then at TJ but it is not as if those schools are filled with kids who live in Poverty. It is laudable and I am thrilled to see it but it is not the massive number people want you to believe.

Should it be ignored? No but it does not cause the high level of correlation between academic success and SES to drop significantly. Nor does the number of poor kids who are bright and ahead and sent to the great private schools in NYC on scholarships. It is not hard to point to those success stories, we highlight them as examples and, in the case of the private schools, to give the appearance that we are doing something positive. But they are still the exception to the rule.

The education gap starts at home and falls on the shoulders of the examples that the parents provide. Families who have the extra time and money are in a better place and, are more likely, to read tot heir kids, take their kids to museums, play games that use math with their kids, and find ways to start teaching their kids as babies. They are in a better place to enrich and supplement as their kids get older. The kids eat better food and get more exercise, which helps with brain functioning and learning. None of this is new information.

Many Asian parents cannot read to their kids in English and most are MC (not high SES) or small business owners working 80 hours per week so not really able to take their children to museums etc.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To quote the study, "The antecedent factor of family socioeconomic status and the propensity factors of student science, mathematics, and reading achievement by kindergarten consistently explained whether students displayed advanced science or mathematics achievement during first, second, third, fourth, or fifth grade."

So this isn't about race, it's really about socioeconomic status of the family.

Race and SES are highly correlated

Not always. In NYC, for example, the Asian community there is among the poorest if not the poorest. Yet, they are highly represented in NYC magnet schools.

Highly correlated does not mean perfectly correlated but there is a strong connection. We can point to the outliers but those remain outliers.

Over a million kids are enrolled in NYC Public Schools. That's almost twice as large as the next public school district, Los Angeles USD. To put it into perspective NYC Public Schools has more students than all of Maryland and only somewhat less than Virginia. Only about 15 states have more students in their public schools.

It's the largest school system in the world, but sure, let's ignore NYC.

No one is ignoring NYC. As another poster pointed out, the number of kids in poverty attending the magnet schools is over exaggerated in the publics mind, those schools are still majority MC/UMC class kids. There is a higher percentage of kids who live in poverty then at TJ but it is not as if those schools are filled with kids who live in Poverty. It is laudable and I am thrilled to see it but it is not the massive number people want you to believe.

Should it be ignored? No but it does not cause the high level of correlation between academic success and SES to drop significantly. Nor does the number of poor kids who are bright and ahead and sent to the great private schools in NYC on scholarships. It is not hard to point to those success stories, we highlight them as examples and, in the case of the private schools, to give the appearance that we are doing something positive. But they are still the exception to the rule.

The education gap starts at home and falls on the shoulders of the examples that the parents provide. Families who have the extra time and money are in a better place and, are more likely, to read tot heir kids, take their kids to museums, play games that use math with their kids, and find ways to start teaching their kids as babies. They are in a better place to enrich and supplement as their kids get older. The kids eat better food and get more exercise, which helps with brain functioning and learning. None of this is new information.

I m Asian and read to my kid at home.

Mostly reading are in our mother tongue . If it’s English book, I even explain to DS in my native language. He really start English when he s in kindergarten. He s now in grade 4 with advanced score in English. ( and math, of course)

Not sure what actually helps. We didn’t t try to have him read English books, but we did a lot of multi language lessens ( learn Chinese , learn My native language)

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why would anyone undertake such a study?

More evidence that the achievement gap starts in the home, not the school system.

Shhhhhh. DCUM doesn’t want to hear that. It’s far easier to blame all their kids’ problems on schools and those evil, evil teachers.

Another reason why their focus on the gap is a fools errand and won't serve to help anyone. They need to meet kids where they are and ensure that every child
gets attention. In early ES because my child was not below grade level, I was responsible for teaching them reading in math and at school they were ignored.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why would anyone undertake such a study?

More evidence that the achievement gap starts in the home, not the school system.

Shhhhhh. DCUM doesn’t want to hear that. It’s far easier to blame all their kids’ problems on schools and those evil, evil teachers.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To quote the study, "The antecedent factor of family socioeconomic status and the propensity factors of student science, mathematics, and reading achievement by kindergarten consistently explained whether students displayed advanced science or mathematics achievement during first, second, third, fourth, or fifth grade."

So this isn't about race, it's really about socioeconomic status of the family.

Race and SES are highly correlated

Not always. In NYC, for example, the Asian community there is among the poorest if not the poorest. Yet, they are highly represented in NYC magnet schools.

Many immigrants were highly educated in their home countries; they just start from scratch here and hence poor. Or their wealth is under the table: they get money from home country assets and/or relatives and being low income on paper helps them get preferential treatment.
Not saying everyone is like that but there’s pretend poverty too.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To quote the study, "The antecedent factor of family socioeconomic status and the propensity factors of student science, mathematics, and reading achievement by kindergarten consistently explained whether students displayed advanced science or mathematics achievement during first, second, third, fourth, or fifth grade."

So this isn't about race, it's really about socioeconomic status of the family.

Race and SES are highly correlated

Not always. In NYC, for example, the Asian community there is among the poorest if not the poorest. Yet, they are highly represented in NYC magnet schools.

+1

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why would anyone undertake such a study?

More evidence that the achievement gap starts in the home, not the school system.

This is probably the bigger issue if Asian's (and some others like us) supplement at home and put our kids in more academically geared preschools. Maybe we should start looking at the play based preschools that are not preparing kids for K.

Oh you guys! Always cutting your nose to spite your face, no? Make everything and everyone dumber. It will not prevent Asian-American parents from teaching their kids at home. Asian-Americans are educated parents. They will at least pass on their own skills and knowledge to their children.

Achievement gap is a symptom of a huge problem. The problem is that the home life of an underperforming student is typically not conducive to academic achievement. Achievement gap has nothing to with Asian-Americans. That is not the problem of Asian-Americans. It is a problem that Asians did not create, did not contribute, and can not solve. I don't understand why Asian-Americans are targeted because others are failing? Can you explain to me the logic of that?

Asians are often highly represented in magnet schools and academic competitions. There are people who want representation, and Asians make it harder to achieve it. Hence the hostility. It's in-group/out-group behavior.

Some of it's also cultural. For whatever reason, there's a disdain for nerds and strivers in this country, and many Asians fit that description. Sports is okay. Not academics.

But you're right. It's not really a problem Asians created.