Anonymous
11/10/2022 11:15
Subject: Rolling gradebook?
Anonymous wrote:DP, No matter how often you post that it's opaque doesn't make it so.
Our children know much more, at any given point ,than I and my peers knew back in the '70s, '80s, and 90s. This is indisputable so It really falls back on people not liking any change.
Education must be doing something right because students are going to college and record levels. Applying in record levels. And they have much broader skills and knowledge base.
Yes they are going to college but how many actually earn a degree? Many who go aren’t ready for it and drop out. Look how many have to take remedial courses that aren’t for credit?
Anonymous
11/10/2022 10:19
Subject: Rolling gradebook?
With regards to traditional vs rolling grade book, does anyone know the genesis of how the quarterly approach came to be used? A guess would be that the quarterly approach does a better job buffering the effect of an outlier low grade and offers encouragement to students by letting them feel like they are beginning with a clean slate each semester. Or maybe it's just less unwieldy to calculate a quarter's worth of grades at a time.
Anonymous
11/10/2022 10:09
Subject: Rolling gradebook?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:The skills were always what the kids were supposed to be learning. The grade they used to get just didn't give an accurate picture of of they were learning them or not
Mastery based grading is very subjective and doesn't seem to give an accurate picture of anything.
Quite the contrary! Skills based grading requires the teachers (or department team) to define what skills a student will need to learn in a particular subject... and then go about testing or evaluating those skills. That is far more transparent than the old way of just letting the teacher do whatever he/she felt like doing and grading.
Identify what skills are going to be taught, then practice those skills, then assess those skills, then move on to the next set of skills, etc.
People seem to think that kids are constantly demanding to go back and re-test for skills that were assessed 6 months ago. That's a strawman. There is a time where you can prove that you have attained a certain level of mastery... but then the teaching moves on to another topic and you are expected to master that topic. Kids don't have unlimited opportunities to prove mastery. But, it also isn't just ONE single opportunity. I know that for my 10th grader in World Hist II, once you take the assessment on Topic X, that's when the grade book closes for any work you haven't yet submitted that was related to Topic X and "due" during the teaching of Topic X.
For math, it's more inter-related. So, if you didn't do well on Skill 2 when it was first taught, you might be able to remedy that down the road when Skill 2 is included in a cummulative test that includes Skill 1, 2, 3, and 4.
If you care about kids and want them ultimately to LEARN, this is the system you should support. If you only care about out-performing the rest of the kids in the class because you are stuck in a competition mindset, then, yep... you probably don't like this. But schools aren't out to pick the "winner." Their job is to get kids to learn so that they have the skills to be successful in whatever they choose to do.
You are setting up your own strawman where anyone who disagrees with you has a nefarious motive. No, it's just a view that the traditional grading system is an accurate way to assess and encourage learning. Teachers in a traditional approach also identify, practice, assess during each unit and offer multiple opportunities to show mastery via homework, problem sets, essays, and tests depending on the subject. This is not exclusive to a mastery approach. It becomes unwieldy when you expect teachers to be able to assess multiple, specific skills for large numbers of students on an ongoing basis. You are forcing teachers to rely on technology packages to make these assessments which may well decreases student engagement. As to whether traditional vs mastery approach allows teachers to do whatever they feel like, the role of subjective teacher assessment is huge in a mastery based approach.
Anonymous
11/10/2022 10:07
Subject: Rolling gradebook?
Anonymous wrote:DP, No matter how often you post that it's opaque doesn't make it so.
Our children know much more, at any given point ,than I and my peers knew back in the '70s, '80s, and 90s. This is indisputable so It really falls back on people not liking any change.
Education must be doing something right because students are going to college and record levels. Applying in record levels. And they have much broader skills and knowledge base.
You're attributing this to the rolling grade book and to mastery based grading?
Anonymous
11/10/2022 09:56
Subject: Rolling gradebook?
DP, No matter how often you post that it's opaque doesn't make it so.
Our children know much more, at any given point ,than I and my peers knew back in the '70s, '80s, and 90s. This is indisputable so It really falls back on people not liking any change.
Education must be doing something right because students are going to college and record levels. Applying in record levels. And they have much broader skills and knowledge base.
Our children know much more, at any given point ,than I and my peers knew back in the '70s, '80s, and 90s. This is indisputable so It really falls back on people not liking any change.
Education must be doing something right because students are going to college and record levels. Applying in record levels. And they have much broader skills and knowledge base.
Anonymous
11/10/2022 09:48
Subject: Rolling gradebook?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:The skills were always what the kids were supposed to be learning. The grade they used to get just didn't give an accurate picture of of they were learning them or not
Mastery based grading is very subjective and doesn't seem to give an accurate picture of anything.
Quite the contrary! Skills based grading requires the teachers (or department team) to define what skills a student will need to learn in a particular subject... and then go about testing or evaluating those skills. That is far more transparent than the old way of just letting the teacher do whatever he/she felt like doing and grading.
Identify what skills are going to be taught, then practice those skills, then assess those skills, then move on to the next set of skills, etc.
People seem to think that kids are constantly demanding to go back and re-test for skills that were assessed 6 months ago. That's a strawman. There is a time where you can prove that you have attained a certain level of mastery... but then the teaching moves on to another topic and you are expected to master that topic. Kids don't have unlimited opportunities to prove mastery. But, it also isn't just ONE single opportunity. I know that for my 10th grader in World Hist II, once you take the assessment on Topic X, that's when the grade book closes for any work you haven't yet submitted that was related to Topic X and "due" during the teaching of Topic X.
For math, it's more inter-related. So, if you didn't do well on Skill 2 when it was first taught, you might be able to remedy that down the road when Skill 2 is included in a cummulative test that includes Skill 1, 2, 3, and 4.
If you care about kids and want them ultimately to LEARN, this is the system you should support. If you only care about out-performing the rest of the kids in the class because you are stuck in a competition mindset, then, yep... you probably don't like this. But schools aren't out to pick the "winner." Their job is to get kids to learn so that they have the skills to be successful in whatever they choose to do.
No matter how much you post, mastery based grading is opaque and seems to fail at teaching skills such as time management, turning in work on time and appropriately, etc.
There are endless numbers of progressive ideas in education that come and go, fads that gleam but are not improvements over traditional teaching.
Anonymous
11/10/2022 09:36
Subject: Rolling gradebook?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:The skills were always what the kids were supposed to be learning. The grade they used to get just didn't give an accurate picture of of they were learning them or not
Mastery based grading is very subjective and doesn't seem to give an accurate picture of anything.
Quite the contrary! Skills based grading requires the teachers (or department team) to define what skills a student will need to learn in a particular subject... and then go about testing or evaluating those skills. That is far more transparent than the old way of just letting the teacher do whatever he/she felt like doing and grading.
Identify what skills are going to be taught, then practice those skills, then assess those skills, then move on to the next set of skills, etc.
People seem to think that kids are constantly demanding to go back and re-test for skills that were assessed 6 months ago. That's a strawman. There is a time where you can prove that you have attained a certain level of mastery... but then the teaching moves on to another topic and you are expected to master that topic. Kids don't have unlimited opportunities to prove mastery. But, it also isn't just ONE single opportunity. I know that for my 10th grader in World Hist II, once you take the assessment on Topic X, that's when the grade book closes for any work you haven't yet submitted that was related to Topic X and "due" during the teaching of Topic X.
For math, it's more inter-related. So, if you didn't do well on Skill 2 when it was first taught, you might be able to remedy that down the road when Skill 2 is included in a cummulative test that includes Skill 1, 2, 3, and 4.
If you care about kids and want them ultimately to LEARN, this is the system you should support. If you only care about out-performing the rest of the kids in the class because you are stuck in a competition mindset, then, yep... you probably don't like this. But schools aren't out to pick the "winner." Their job is to get kids to learn so that they have the skills to be successful in whatever they choose to do.
Anonymous
11/10/2022 09:10
Subject: Rolling gradebook?
Anonymous wrote:The skills were always what the kids were supposed to be learning. The grade they used to get just didn't give an accurate picture of of they were learning them or not
A traditional grade reflects learning at that time. Kids takes a test to show what they have learned in that unit before the class moves on. Seems like a pretty accurate assessment. Kids will, of course, continue to develop their skills and should be encouraged to do so. Sometimes they will acquire the skill in the current grade or maybe in a future grade. Do we go back and revise prior years’ grades to reflect that?
It’s not just learning the skill but learning the skill within a certain time frame. Otherwise, things get unwieldy. Kids need to learn the skill with their peers in order to keep up as the class moves on to other topics. Teachers can’t teach prior skills to one student when the rest of the class has moved on. They can’t constantly be assessing a year’s worth of different skills for each kid within large, heterogenous classes. This can be done if you plunk a student on a device with personalized learning but that has its own problems.
Anonymous
11/10/2022 07:44
Subject: Rolling gradebook?
Anonymous wrote:The skills were always what the kids were supposed to be learning. The grade they used to get just didn't give an accurate picture of of they were learning them or not
Mastery based grading is very subjective and doesn't seem to give an accurate picture of anything.
Anonymous
11/10/2022 07:32
Subject: Rolling gradebook?
The skills were always what the kids were supposed to be learning. The grade they used to get just didn't give an accurate picture of of they were learning them or not
Anonymous
11/09/2022 22:04
Subject: Re:Rolling gradebook?
I totally despise the mastery based learning. Too many skills to keep track of. It used to be homework, classwork, assessments. Now it is 12-15 skills that are being assessed. Students and parents have no way of keeping track of these skills. Teachers seem equally confused on how to grade creating a huge mess.
Anonymous
11/09/2022 18:45
Subject: Re:Rolling gradebook?
I think Principals have a say in this. At our middle school, all teachers use rolling grade book, but they use a variety of grading methods (traditional or standards-based and maybe some others I haven't figured out yet).
Anonymous
11/09/2022 18:07
Subject: Rolling gradebook?
Regarding whether to use traditional or rolling grade book, the above FCPS link says:
"Each quarter the student will receive a letter grade to designate the level of achievement in a course for the previous nine weeks (for traditional gradebook) or up to that point in time (for rolling gradebook). The quarter grade is determined by using the procedure outlined in the teacher’s grading design."
Sounds like teachers have the option to use a traditional or rolling gradebook as well as the option to layer on equity grading on top of either method as noted in the prior post.
"Each quarter the student will receive a letter grade to designate the level of achievement in a course for the previous nine weeks (for traditional gradebook) or up to that point in time (for rolling gradebook). The quarter grade is determined by using the procedure outlined in the teacher’s grading design."
Sounds like teachers have the option to use a traditional or rolling gradebook as well as the option to layer on equity grading on top of either method as noted in the prior post.
Anonymous
11/09/2022 17:37
Subject: Rolling gradebook?
Here is FCPS's grading statement:
https://www.fcps.edu/academics/grading-and-reporting/secondary/determining-quarter-and-final-grades
Interestingly, it includes the following:
"Final grades awarded to students will be A, A-, B+, B, B-, C+, C, C-, D+, D, or F. Students may be awarded a higher grade based on trends in and mastery of learning."
The latter sentence appears to reference the type of equity grading described above whereby teachers "may" give more weight to a later grade if the trend is up.
"May" is not a good approach. Some kids gets "may" get graded this way and receive a higher grade than a traditional or rolling gradebook would suggest, other kids "may' not. It appears to be up to the teacher.
https://www.fcps.edu/academics/grading-and-reporting/secondary/determining-quarter-and-final-grades
Interestingly, it includes the following:
"Final grades awarded to students will be A, A-, B+, B, B-, C+, C, C-, D+, D, or F. Students may be awarded a higher grade based on trends in and mastery of learning."
The latter sentence appears to reference the type of equity grading described above whereby teachers "may" give more weight to a later grade if the trend is up.
"May" is not a good approach. Some kids gets "may" get graded this way and receive a higher grade than a traditional or rolling gradebook would suggest, other kids "may' not. It appears to be up to the teacher.
Anonymous
11/09/2022 17:30
Subject: Rolling gradebook?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:All grades are used to continue calculating the cumulative grade. You don't start with a clean slate each quarter. This is a more accurate way to calculate grades. Everything continues to count...and a progress grade is reported three times before the final grade in June.
It is harder to bring your grade down, and harder to bring it up as you get further into the year....but the grade you see is a truer reflection of your accomplishments for the whole course to date.
I don’t like this idea. You could have one bad quarter which messes up your chance to do better for the final. I like starting fresh each quarter.
Agree. It's another progressive idea that just hurts students and/or makes school harder or more discouraging.
Standards based grading is the same - students are aiming for high GPAs and a 3 looks bad to them when it's supposed to be fine. I feel like schools just don't like students or understand how people work.
you are wrong. And if you are a person who likes or appreciates the clarity of math, then you should 100% support rolling grade books.
I am fine with the rolling gradebook but to your point about each quarter counting equally the old way, that doesn't have to be the case. Some districts weigh each quarter differently, for example 1st quarter is 15% of the total grade, 2nd 20% and so on so that 4th quarter weighs the most. This helps encourage a "growth mindset" as students who improve throughout the year will have those higher grades weighted more heavily.
If you had the old way, you might have one test in the first quarter b/c kids are just getting back into school, learning routines, whatever. But, by the third quarter, you might have three tests in that quarter. Under the old way, the single test in the first quarter has THREE TIMES as much effect on your final grade as each test in the third quarter! That doesn't make sense! Why should those three tests in the third quarter have much LESS value compared to the one test in the first quarter?
Under rolling grade book... every test has the same "weight"/impact on the final grade. That is Fair. That is Accurate. There are no made-up stopping points that give unequal weight to some tests just because there were fewer of them in one quarter vs another.
And going on... your final grade for the year should be the SUM TOTAL of all your work for the year. Right? So naturally, as you add more scores into the average, each one is going to have less total impact on your grade. (i.e. if you have 80 graded items throughout the year, each one has less impact -- for better or for worse -- on your overall grade, compared to a situation where you only have 20 graded items.)
The old way allowed students to think they they were suddenly doing well (clean slate -- oh look, I got an A on one test -- so I have an "A" this quarter). But, it was a false snapshot b/c they might have a C and a B for the two previous quarters. You might feel great about the A -- but it allows you to ignore the fact that your grade so far for the course is NOT going to be an A ... it's going to be a B. Rolling grade book tells you the truth in that respect... it would show a B (or a little lower) because that's what you have cummulatively earned for the course so far.
I guess it depends whether you like to fool yourself temporarily or know the actual truth about where your grade is.