Anonymous
Post 01/20/2023 17:16     Subject: LCPS Math placement for 5th graders, rising 6th graders
Anonymous wrote:As a parent of 9th and 6th graders in LCPS, both bright honors students, there has been no discouragement of taking Algebra in 8th or even in 7th. My 9th grader took it in 7th and did great and is currently in A2T. My current 6th grader is in Foundations and has already been told that she may take Algebra or Pre Algebra next year - her choice. She has had a high A average all year in Foundations.

No one has discouraged anything.


County staff sent an e-mail saying that her goal was to eliminate 6th grade prealgebra, and for equity purposes she supported elimination of tracking.
With elimination of VMPI, schools have been given more leeway to return to the previous practice.
I don't know the numbers now, but before at several schools half the kids were taking algebra by 7th grade.
Anonymous
Post 01/20/2023 17:13     Subject: LCPS Math placement for 5th graders, rising 6th graders
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:As a parent of 9th and 6th graders in LCPS, both bright honors students, there has been no discouragement of taking Algebra in 8th or even in 7th. My 9th grader took it in 7th and did great and is currently in A2T. My current 6th grader is in Foundations and has already been told that she may take Algebra or Pre Algebra next year - her choice. She has had a high A average all year in Foundations.

No one has discouraged anything.

Good that it has worked for your kids. There are different types of discouragement. LCPS has been explicit in discouraging 6th grade Algebra 1 in public statements and actions. However, there are other types of discouragement that are not explicit, like raising eligibility thresholds. Over the last five years or so, LCPS brought down the share of kids taking middle school Algebra 1 from roughly 80% to 60%, motivated by the 2016 SOL revision which emphasized algebra readiness/9th grade Algebra 1 and anticipation of the former VMPI. This is implicit discouragement. The concern is whether this trend will continue which is generating the interest in this year's selection process. Hopefully your 6th grader's positive experience applies to others as well.

Another factor might be the school closures have lowered the performance level. My kids elementary I observed over two years, the 2021-2022 cohort was not as strong in math. 2020-2021 would have sent several kids to 6th grade algebra if it were allowed.
Anonymous
Post 01/20/2023 10:43     Subject: LCPS Math placement for 5th graders, rising 6th graders
Anonymous wrote:As a parent of 9th and 6th graders in LCPS, both bright honors students, there has been no discouragement of taking Algebra in 8th or even in 7th. My 9th grader took it in 7th and did great and is currently in A2T. My current 6th grader is in Foundations and has already been told that she may take Algebra or Pre Algebra next year - her choice. She has had a high A average all year in Foundations.

No one has discouraged anything.

Good that it has worked for your kids. There are different types of discouragement. LCPS has been explicit in discouraging 6th grade Algebra 1 in public statements and actions. However, there are other types of discouragement that are not explicit, like raising eligibility thresholds. Over the last five years or so, LCPS brought down the share of kids taking middle school Algebra 1 from roughly 80% to 60%, motivated by the 2016 SOL revision which emphasized algebra readiness/9th grade Algebra 1 and anticipation of the former VMPI. This is implicit discouragement. The concern is whether this trend will continue which is generating the interest in this year's selection process. Hopefully your 6th grader's positive experience applies to others as well.
Anonymous
Post 01/20/2023 08:18     Subject: LCPS Math placement for 5th graders, rising 6th graders
As a parent of 9th and 6th graders in LCPS, both bright honors students, there has been no discouragement of taking Algebra in 8th or even in 7th. My 9th grader took it in 7th and did great and is currently in A2T. My current 6th grader is in Foundations and has already been told that she may take Algebra or Pre Algebra next year - her choice. She has had a high A average all year in Foundations.

No one has discouraged anything.
Anonymous
Post 01/19/2023 18:56     Subject: LCPS Math placement for 5th graders, rising 6th graders
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Any risk that the number of kids going into 8th grade algebra will be pared back too? Many of the same arguments used to justify slowing kids down from 7th grade algebra could also apply to 8th grade algebra.


County math staff is on record supporting eliminating of tracking, and wanting to eliminate prealgebra in 6th grade, for equity reasons.
Eliminating algebra in 8th would fit with this, as that is what VMPI was doing while they were claiming algebra in 8th.
The kids who are not capable of algebra in 8th would not be left behind, so this was really prealgebra in 8th as they admitted in some videos.
However, some of the current prealgebra curriculum was taught in algebra class when I was in school, like graphing line equations.


Liar

DP. The prior PP is right about VMPI in practice even if VMPI did not state this publicly. VMPI Essential Concepts courses for grades 8-10 were supposed to cover Prealgebra, Algebra 1, Geometry, and Algebra 2; four years of material in three years. The latter three courses currently generate three high school credits yet Essential Concepts only generated two high school credits, so VMPI chopped out a year's worth of high school content in these courses. As the prior PP noted, VMPI also said that all students would be capable of this compression. Thus, Essential Concepts Grade 8 had to be digestible to kids who hadn't taken Prealgebra which is why it would not have been comparable to Algebra 1's level of rigor. In practice, Essential Concepts were most likely Prealgebra, Algebra 1, and Geometry with only a small bit of Algebra 2. This is consistent with the current path of taking Algebra 1 in 9th grade. Under VMPI, most of Algebra 2 would have been either chopped or lumped in with Precalculus Focus on Functions.


Their public statement was algebra, geometry, algebra 2 for grades 8-10, but in some videos they admitted there would be some prealgebra.
It is obviously prealgebra because all students were required to be in these classes, including the kids who are currently not given algebra in 8th grade.
An easy pathway solution that would have dealt with the issue of kids are not able to take advanced classes in high school because of what happened in middle school would be to make algebra available to any student who wants to take it.

Thanks for the clarification. Yes, it was the April 2021 webinar where they said Essential Concepts would cover Grade 8 math, Algebra 1, Geometry, and Algebra 2. However, VMPI public statements notwithstanding, Essential Concepts effectively had pacing similar to the current 9th grade Algebra 1 path. So, to your original point, the current move to discourage kids from taking middle school algebra is consistent with what VMPI was proposing in practice.
Anonymous
Post 01/19/2023 16:55     Subject: LCPS Math placement for 5th graders, rising 6th graders
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Any risk that the number of kids going into 8th grade algebra will be pared back too? Many of the same arguments used to justify slowing kids down from 7th grade algebra could also apply to 8th grade algebra.


County math staff is on record supporting eliminating of tracking, and wanting to eliminate prealgebra in 6th grade, for equity reasons.
Eliminating algebra in 8th would fit with this, as that is what VMPI was doing while they were claiming algebra in 8th.
The kids who are not capable of algebra in 8th would not be left behind, so this was really prealgebra in 8th as they admitted in some videos.
However, some of the current prealgebra curriculum was taught in algebra class when I was in school, like graphing line equations.


Liar

DP. The prior PP is right about VMPI in practice even if VMPI did not state this publicly. VMPI Essential Concepts courses for grades 8-10 were supposed to cover Prealgebra, Algebra 1, Geometry, and Algebra 2; four years of material in three years. The latter three courses currently generate three high school credits yet Essential Concepts only generated two high school credits, so VMPI chopped out a year's worth of high school content in these courses. As the prior PP noted, VMPI also said that all students would be capable of this compression. Thus, Essential Concepts Grade 8 had to be digestible to kids who hadn't taken Prealgebra which is why it would not have been comparable to Algebra 1's level of rigor. In practice, Essential Concepts were most likely Prealgebra, Algebra 1, and Geometry with only a small bit of Algebra 2. This is consistent with the current path of taking Algebra 1 in 9th grade. Under VMPI, most of Algebra 2 would have been either chopped or lumped in with Precalculus Focus on Functions.


Their public statement was algebra, geometry, algebra 2 for grades 8-10, but in some videos they admitted there would be some prealgebra.
It is obviously prealgebra because all students were required to be in these classes, including the kids who are currently not given algebra in 8th grade.
An easy pathway solution that would have dealt with the issue of kids are not able to take advanced classes in high school because of what happened in middle school would be to make algebra available to any student who wants to take it.
Anonymous
Post 01/19/2023 13:59     Subject: LCPS Math placement for 5th graders, rising 6th graders
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Why have both prealgebra and Foundations of Algebra? If a kid can go to Algebra 1 in 7th from either class, it seems like both are providing prealgebra skills. Does prealgebra cover additional material or is it the same material as Foundations but it goes deeper into the topics?


Good question. Perhaps they are similar classes with prealgebra being an honors prealgebra, as it is a new course. It used to be about half the kids would be in algebra by 7th grade, and it is still somewhat close to that now.


Fewer are in 7th grade Algebra than used to be.

Yes. If you look at SOL data, it shows that 28% of 7th graders took the Algebra 1 SOL last year; prior year it was 39%. Similarly, 28% of 8th graders took the Algebra 1 SOL last year; prior year it was 36%.


And it will be even less this year.


Raising the bar.

Raising the qualifying score to a level above what is needed to succeed in the course is not raising the bar. It is putting in place an unnecessary obstacle to advancement. By your logic, if they gave kids a calculus pre-test to see if they qualify for Algebra 1, would that be raising the bar too?
Anonymous
Post 01/19/2023 13:56     Subject: LCPS Math placement for 5th graders, rising 6th graders
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Any risk that the number of kids going into 8th grade algebra will be pared back too? Many of the same arguments used to justify slowing kids down from 7th grade algebra could also apply to 8th grade algebra.


County math staff is on record supporting eliminating of tracking, and wanting to eliminate prealgebra in 6th grade, for equity reasons.
Eliminating algebra in 8th would fit with this, as that is what VMPI was doing while they were claiming algebra in 8th.
The kids who are not capable of algebra in 8th would not be left behind, so this was really prealgebra in 8th as they admitted in some videos.
However, some of the current prealgebra curriculum was taught in algebra class when I was in school, like graphing line equations.


Liar

DP. The prior PP is right about VMPI in practice even if VMPI did not state this publicly. VMPI Essential Concepts courses for grades 8-10 were supposed to cover Prealgebra, Algebra 1, Geometry, and Algebra 2; four years of material in three years. The latter three courses currently generate three high school credits yet Essential Concepts only generated two high school credits, so VMPI chopped out a year's worth of high school content in these courses. As the prior PP noted, VMPI also said that all students would be capable of this compression. Thus, Essential Concepts Grade 8 had to be digestible to kids who hadn't taken Prealgebra which is why it would not have been comparable to Algebra 1's level of rigor. In practice, Essential Concepts were most likely Prealgebra, Algebra 1, and Geometry with only a small bit of Algebra 2. This is consistent with the current path of taking Algebra 1 in 9th grade. Under VMPI, most of Algebra 2 would have been either chopped or lumped in with Precalculus Focus on Functions.
Anonymous
Post 01/19/2023 08:30     Subject: LCPS Math placement for 5th graders, rising 6th graders
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Why have both prealgebra and Foundations of Algebra? If a kid can go to Algebra 1 in 7th from either class, it seems like both are providing prealgebra skills. Does prealgebra cover additional material or is it the same material as Foundations but it goes deeper into the topics?


Good question. Perhaps they are similar classes with prealgebra being an honors prealgebra, as it is a new course. It used to be about half the kids would be in algebra by 7th grade, and it is still somewhat close to that now.


Fewer are in 7th grade Algebra than used to be.

Yes. If you look at SOL data, it shows that 28% of 7th graders took the Algebra 1 SOL last year; prior year it was 39%. Similarly, 28% of 8th graders took the Algebra 1 SOL last year; prior year it was 36%.


And it will be even less this year.


Raising the bar.
Anonymous
Post 01/19/2023 08:29     Subject: LCPS Math placement for 5th graders, rising 6th graders
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Any risk that the number of kids going into 8th grade algebra will be pared back too? Many of the same arguments used to justify slowing kids down from 7th grade algebra could also apply to 8th grade algebra.


County math staff is on record supporting eliminating of tracking, and wanting to eliminate prealgebra in 6th grade, for equity reasons.
Eliminating algebra in 8th would fit with this, as that is what VMPI was doing while they were claiming algebra in 8th.
The kids who are not capable of algebra in 8th would not be left behind, so this was really prealgebra in 8th as they admitted in some videos.
However, some of the current prealgebra curriculum was taught in algebra class when I was in school, like graphing line equations.


Liar
Anonymous
Post 01/19/2023 08:21     Subject: LCPS Math placement for 5th graders, rising 6th graders
I just got a letter from my LCPS middle school. For my 6th grader in Foundations, the score on the winter MAP is on thing that will be taken into account in determining whether she moves onto Algebra or goes into Pre-Algebra.
Anonymous
Post 01/19/2023 05:14     Subject: LCPS Math placement for 5th graders, rising 6th graders
Anonymous wrote:
Does LCPS share the test & test thresholds needed to qualify for 6th, 7th, and 8th grade Algebra 1 ahead of time, i.e. before kids take the test and before placement decisions are made?


7th and 8th grade algebra are teacher recommendations, maybe MAP and SOL are factors. They don't actually have a test for 6th grade algebra.
They have a test to get into 6th grade prealgebra, and students who do very well on this will either be given the option to take algebra, or to take IAAT to get into algebra. It is not clear which.
Anonymous
Post 01/18/2023 20:42     Subject: LCPS Math placement for 5th graders, rising 6th graders
Anonymous wrote:bump, testing time is getting closer.

Parents can also appeal. This would be decided by a combo of gifted coordinator and the school principal.
The elementary principal is supposed to notify everyone that scored at least 90% in 5th grade that algebra is an option.

Does LCPS share the test & test thresholds needed to qualify for 6th, 7th, and 8th grade Algebra 1 ahead of time, i.e. before kids take the test and before placement decisions are made?
Anonymous
Post 01/18/2023 19:46     Subject: LCPS Math placement for 5th graders, rising 6th graders
bump, testing time is getting closer.

Parents can also appeal. This would be decided by a combo of gifted coordinator and the school principal.
The elementary principal is supposed to notify everyone that scored at least 90% in 5th grade that algebra is an option.
Anonymous
Post 11/09/2022 12:46     Subject: LCPS Math placement for 5th graders, rising 6th graders
Anonymous wrote:For example, an isosceles triangle has sides of 3x-4 and 4x+7.


I should have thought that through before posting.