Anytime you give a better product to some people, but not all people, and don't charge any extra for it, people are going to try to game the system, because its inherently unfair. Why should other kids get a better education than my kids if my kids would benefit from it too? We absolutely prepped, succeeded and feel no shame. I encourage other parents to do the same if they feel their child would benefit.

I would just argue that maybe these schools should not be using a test that is trying to measure innate ability, since that is basically a myth. Kids can get better at math by working hard at it. https://www.amazon.com/Mindset-Psychology-Carol-S-Dweck/dp/0345472322

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are sample questions embedded into the testing sessions. Please don't buy practice books for your kids; the test is supposed to measure ability, not learned achievement.

So many people doing it, you are at a disadvantage if you don’t. It’s just the truth.

I am not disputing this but just one lone voice out in the world saying we did zero prep with either of our kids. My one kid did well but not a super high score. My other kid got a really high score. Based on what I know about them, the test did it's job and placed them where they should be and reflected their ability. It didn't cross my mind to do prep.

We knew our kids were probably borderline but wanted to nudge them over the edge. You can't prove the negative but they are now doing great and it was a minimal time/money investment from us. I don't see any harm.

The harm is that these tests than become about who has resources and knowledge to prep their kids for them and is why in more diverse schools, the white kids end up tagged gifted and the non-white kids less so. Look at any school or school systems stats. It's a known issue. It does do pretty large harm in the aggregate.

That's not my problem as a parent. My responsibility is to see that my kids get the best possible education, and that they are properly challenged. They can clearly do the work (because they are) so they should have access to it. The fact that other kids are being missed is the school's issue to deal with.

Yes, I am clear you feel that way. We all get it. I'm not saying I disagree with you or your decision. The point is, again, the system as it is set up is in fact causing harm. Call a spade a spade folks.

What is the harm, exactly? If prepping makes kids who are bright, but not gifted, qualify for gifted programs that doesn’t mean that the non-prepped kids who are actually gifted won’t also qualify. If the harm is that the bright non-gifted unprepped kids are left behind, that means the regular track should be fixed because it’s less than in some way.

The harm is it leads to de facto segregation in diverse schools. In many public schools it's a way for white kids to get out of classes with brown/black kids. That is why parents are obsessed with getting into these programs, particularly in jurisdictions like FCPS or ACPS where it's a pull out model by as early as 3rd/4th grade and kids are physically separated. When in fact a bunch of those white kids and brown/black kids are of the same intellectual capability. But guess who is left behind.

it doesn't work like that in Arlington. Gifted kids are in classes with everyone else.

Cogat scores are used in Arlington for 6th grade math placement and they do limited pull outs in APS. But not nearly to same degree as ACPS and FCPS.

it seemed like the OP was from Arlington but I could be wrong. Regardless, it is ridiculous to use a placement test that you don't expect kids to prep for. There is nothing wrong with studying for tests and we should not teach kids that it is wrong to study. If anything, they should send materials home so kids can prepare and change the test so it can't easily be gamed. in the meantime, do what is best for your kids.

You're acting like it's a knowledge based test. It's an ability test. Most schools discourage taking the practice tests because they know it's an unfair advantage.

No one is questioning anyone for doing what they feel they need to do for their own kid. That's what we do for them as parents. A lot of defensive reactions.

It's an unfair system, as is. That's it. Nothing personal.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are sample questions embedded into the testing sessions. Please don't buy practice books for your kids; the test is supposed to measure ability, not learned achievement.

So many people doing it, you are at a disadvantage if you don’t. It’s just the truth.

I am not disputing this but just one lone voice out in the world saying we did zero prep with either of our kids. My one kid did well but not a super high score. My other kid got a really high score. Based on what I know about them, the test did it's job and placed them where they should be and reflected their ability. It didn't cross my mind to do prep.

We knew our kids were probably borderline but wanted to nudge them over the edge. You can't prove the negative but they are now doing great and it was a minimal time/money investment from us. I don't see any harm.

The harm is that these tests than become about who has resources and knowledge to prep their kids for them and is why in more diverse schools, the white kids end up tagged gifted and the non-white kids less so. Look at any school or school systems stats. It's a known issue. It does do pretty large harm in the aggregate.

That's not my problem as a parent. My responsibility is to see that my kids get the best possible education, and that they are properly challenged. They can clearly do the work (because they are) so they should have access to it. The fact that other kids are being missed is the school's issue to deal with.

Yes, I am clear you feel that way. We all get it. I'm not saying I disagree with you or your decision. The point is, again, the system as it is set up is in fact causing harm. Call a spade a spade folks.

What is the harm, exactly? If prepping makes kids who are bright, but not gifted, qualify for gifted programs that doesn’t mean that the non-prepped kids who are actually gifted won’t also qualify. If the harm is that the bright non-gifted unprepped kids are left behind, that means the regular track should be fixed because it’s less than in some way.

The harm is it leads to de facto segregation in diverse schools. In many public schools it's a way for white kids to get out of classes with brown/black kids. That is why parents are obsessed with getting into these programs, particularly in jurisdictions like FCPS or ACPS where it's a pull out model by as early as 3rd/4th grade and kids are physically separated. When in fact a bunch of those white kids and brown/black kids are of the same intellectual capability. But guess who is left behind.

it doesn't work like that in Arlington. Gifted kids are in classes with everyone else.

Cogat scores are used in Arlington for 6th grade math placement and they do limited pull outs in APS. But not nearly to same degree as ACPS and FCPS.

it seemed like the OP was from Arlington but I could be wrong. Regardless, it is ridiculous to use a placement test that you don't expect kids to prep for. There is nothing wrong with studying for tests and we should not teach kids that it is wrong to study. If anything, they should send materials home so kids can prepare and change the test so it can't easily be gamed. in the meantime, do what is best for your kids.

For my kids Cogat in 4th Grade, we google image searched Cogat questions so kids were familiar, but did not go overboard.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are sample questions embedded into the testing sessions. Please don't buy practice books for your kids; the test is supposed to measure ability, not learned achievement.

So many people doing it, you are at a disadvantage if you don’t. It’s just the truth.

I am not disputing this but just one lone voice out in the world saying we did zero prep with either of our kids. My one kid did well but not a super high score. My other kid got a really high score. Based on what I know about them, the test did it's job and placed them where they should be and reflected their ability. It didn't cross my mind to do prep.

We knew our kids were probably borderline but wanted to nudge them over the edge. You can't prove the negative but they are now doing great and it was a minimal time/money investment from us. I don't see any harm.

The harm is that these tests than become about who has resources and knowledge to prep their kids for them and is why in more diverse schools, the white kids end up tagged gifted and the non-white kids less so. Look at any school or school systems stats. It's a known issue. It does do pretty large harm in the aggregate.

That's not my problem as a parent. My responsibility is to see that my kids get the best possible education, and that they are properly challenged. They can clearly do the work (because they are) so they should have access to it. The fact that other kids are being missed is the school's issue to deal with.

Yes, I am clear you feel that way. We all get it. I'm not saying I disagree with you or your decision. The point is, again, the system as it is set up is in fact causing harm. Call a spade a spade folks.

What is the harm, exactly? If prepping makes kids who are bright, but not gifted, qualify for gifted programs that doesn’t mean that the non-prepped kids who are actually gifted won’t also qualify. If the harm is that the bright non-gifted unprepped kids are left behind, that means the regular track should be fixed because it’s less than in some way.

The harm is it leads to de facto segregation in diverse schools. In many public schools it's a way for white kids to get out of classes with brown/black kids. That is why parents are obsessed with getting into these programs, particularly in jurisdictions like FCPS or ACPS where it's a pull out model by as early as 3rd/4th grade and kids are physically separated. When in fact a bunch of those white kids and brown/black kids are of the same intellectual capability. But guess who is left behind.

it doesn't work like that in Arlington. Gifted kids are in classes with everyone else.

Cogat scores are used in Arlington for 6th grade math placement and they do limited pull outs in APS. But not nearly to same degree as ACPS and FCPS.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are sample questions embedded into the testing sessions. Please don't buy practice books for your kids; the test is supposed to measure ability, not learned achievement.

So many people doing it, you are at a disadvantage if you don’t. It’s just the truth.

I am not disputing this but just one lone voice out in the world saying we did zero prep with either of our kids. My one kid did well but not a super high score. My other kid got a really high score. Based on what I know about them, the test did it's job and placed them where they should be and reflected their ability. It didn't cross my mind to do prep.

We knew our kids were probably borderline but wanted to nudge them over the edge. You can't prove the negative but they are now doing great and it was a minimal time/money investment from us. I don't see any harm.

The harm is that these tests than become about who has resources and knowledge to prep their kids for them and is why in more diverse schools, the white kids end up tagged gifted and the non-white kids less so. Look at any school or school systems stats. It's a known issue. It does do pretty large harm in the aggregate.

That's not my problem as a parent. My responsibility is to see that my kids get the best possible education, and that they are properly challenged. They can clearly do the work (because they are) so they should have access to it. The fact that other kids are being missed is the school's issue to deal with.

Yes, I am clear you feel that way. We all get it. I'm not saying I disagree with you or your decision. The point is, again, the system as it is set up is in fact causing harm. Call a spade a spade folks.

What is the harm, exactly? If prepping makes kids who are bright, but not gifted, qualify for gifted programs that doesn’t mean that the non-prepped kids who are actually gifted won’t also qualify. If the harm is that the bright non-gifted unprepped kids are left behind, that means the regular track should be fixed because it’s less than in some way.

The harm is it leads to de facto segregation in diverse schools. In many public schools it's a way for white kids to get out of classes with brown/black kids. That is why parents are obsessed with getting into these programs, particularly in jurisdictions like FCPS or ACPS where it's a pull out model by as early as 3rd/4th grade and kids are physically separated. When in fact a bunch of those white kids and brown/black kids are of the same intellectual capability. But guess who is left behind.

it doesn't work like that in Arlington. Gifted kids are in classes with everyone else.

Yep, which is why ACPS (Alexandria) and FCPS (Fairfax) are mentioned.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are sample questions embedded into the testing sessions. Please don't buy practice books for your kids; the test is supposed to measure ability, not learned achievement.

So many people doing it, you are at a disadvantage if you don’t. It’s just the truth.

I am not disputing this but just one lone voice out in the world saying we did zero prep with either of our kids. My one kid did well but not a super high score. My other kid got a really high score. Based on what I know about them, the test did it's job and placed them where they should be and reflected their ability. It didn't cross my mind to do prep.

We knew our kids were probably borderline but wanted to nudge them over the edge. You can't prove the negative but they are now doing great and it was a minimal time/money investment from us. I don't see any harm.

The harm is that these tests than become about who has resources and knowledge to prep their kids for them and is why in more diverse schools, the white kids end up tagged gifted and the non-white kids less so. Look at any school or school systems stats. It's a known issue. It does do pretty large harm in the aggregate.

That's not my problem as a parent. My responsibility is to see that my kids get the best possible education, and that they are properly challenged. They can clearly do the work (because they are) so they should have access to it. The fact that other kids are being missed is the school's issue to deal with.

Yes, I am clear you feel that way. We all get it. I'm not saying I disagree with you or your decision. The point is, again, the system as it is set up is in fact causing harm. Call a spade a spade folks.

What is the harm, exactly? If prepping makes kids who are bright, but not gifted, qualify for gifted programs that doesn’t mean that the non-prepped kids who are actually gifted won’t also qualify. If the harm is that the bright non-gifted unprepped kids are left behind, that means the regular track should be fixed because it’s less than in some way.

The harm is it leads to de facto segregation in diverse schools. In many public schools it's a way for white kids to get out of classes with brown/black kids. That is why parents are obsessed with getting into these programs, particularly in jurisdictions like FCPS or ACPS where it's a pull out model by as early as 3rd/4th grade and kids are physically separated. When in fact a bunch of those white kids and brown/black kids are of the same intellectual capability. But guess who is left behind.

it doesn't work like that in Arlington. Gifted kids are in classes with everyone else.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are sample questions embedded into the testing sessions. Please don't buy practice books for your kids; the test is supposed to measure ability, not learned achievement.

So many people doing it, you are at a disadvantage if you don’t. It’s just the truth.

I am not disputing this but just one lone voice out in the world saying we did zero prep with either of our kids. My one kid did well but not a super high score. My other kid got a really high score. Based on what I know about them, the test did it's job and placed them where they should be and reflected their ability. It didn't cross my mind to do prep.

We knew our kids were probably borderline but wanted to nudge them over the edge. You can't prove the negative but they are now doing great and it was a minimal time/money investment from us. I don't see any harm.

The harm is that these tests than become about who has resources and knowledge to prep their kids for them and is why in more diverse schools, the white kids end up tagged gifted and the non-white kids less so. Look at any school or school systems stats. It's a known issue. It does do pretty large harm in the aggregate.

That's not my problem as a parent. My responsibility is to see that my kids get the best possible education, and that they are properly challenged. They can clearly do the work (because they are) so they should have access to it. The fact that other kids are being missed is the school's issue to deal with.

Yes, I am clear you feel that way. We all get it. I'm not saying I disagree with you or your decision. The point is, again, the system as it is set up is in fact causing harm. Call a spade a spade folks.

What is the harm, exactly? If prepping makes kids who are bright, but not gifted, qualify for gifted programs that doesn’t mean that the non-prepped kids who are actually gifted won’t also qualify. If the harm is that the bright non-gifted unprepped kids are left behind, that means the regular track should be fixed because it’s less than in some way.

The harm is it leads to de facto segregation in diverse schools. In many public schools it's a way for white kids to get out of classes with brown/black kids. That is why parents are obsessed with getting into these programs, particularly in jurisdictions like FCPS or ACPS where it's a pull out model by as early as 3rd/4th grade and kids are physically separated. When in fact a bunch of those white kids and brown/black kids are of the same intellectual capability. But guess who is left behind.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are sample questions embedded into the testing sessions. Please don't buy practice books for your kids; the test is supposed to measure ability, not learned achievement.

So many people doing it, you are at a disadvantage if you don’t. It’s just the truth.

I am not disputing this but just one lone voice out in the world saying we did zero prep with either of our kids. My one kid did well but not a super high score. My other kid got a really high score. Based on what I know about them, the test did it's job and placed them where they should be and reflected their ability. It didn't cross my mind to do prep.

Same. We did nothing and my kids got 144 and 140. This was in FCPS so they took it in 2nd grade. I would think for older kids prep would be even less necessary. Unless you want them to appear smarter than they are. Which many people seem to want. I already knew my kids were really smart so it just didn't even cross my mind and I didn't care f everyone else was prepping.

OP here.

I wound up just showing my kid a few questions and that was that and he took it. I really don’t care much. But the idea that prepping is to make your kid seem smarter than they really are implies that going into the cogat with no prep is an accurate way to assess intelligence. That’s doubtful. And beyond my skepticism of standardized tests correlating with intelligence, I can tell you that anecdotally, while I suspect my older child who was placed in the advanced math track gets better test scores generally, my younger child is far, far better with math. He just does things like “well, I don’t know the answer, I guess I will just not write anything down” or “I don’t understand the phrasing of this question, I guess I’ll skip.” He’s not a bad test taker, just inexperienced and not as good as my older child.

Yes that’s an anecdote but no, showing your kids what the test is about is not about making them look smarter than they actually are.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are sample questions embedded into the testing sessions. Please don't buy practice books for your kids; the test is supposed to measure ability, not learned achievement.

So many people doing it, you are at a disadvantage if you don’t. It’s just the truth.

I am not disputing this but just one lone voice out in the world saying we did zero prep with either of our kids. My one kid did well but not a super high score. My other kid got a really high score. Based on what I know about them, the test did it's job and placed them where they should be and reflected their ability. It didn't cross my mind to do prep.

We knew our kids were probably borderline but wanted to nudge them over the edge. You can't prove the negative but they are now doing great and it was a minimal time/money investment from us. I don't see any harm.

The harm is that these tests than become about who has resources and knowledge to prep their kids for them and is why in more diverse schools, the white kids end up tagged gifted and the non-white kids less so. Look at any school or school systems stats. It's a known issue. It does do pretty large harm in the aggregate.

That's not my problem as a parent. My responsibility is to see that my kids get the best possible education, and that they are properly challenged. They can clearly do the work (because they are) so they should have access to it. The fact that other kids are being missed is the school's issue to deal with.

Yes, I am clear you feel that way. We all get it. I'm not saying I disagree with you or your decision. The point is, again, the system as it is set up is in fact causing harm. Call a spade a spade folks.

What is the harm, exactly? If prepping makes kids who are bright, but not gifted, qualify for gifted programs that doesn’t mean that the non-prepped kids who are actually gifted won’t also qualify. If the harm is that the bright non-gifted unprepped kids are left behind, that means the regular track should be fixed because it’s less than in some way.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are sample questions embedded into the testing sessions. Please don't buy practice books for your kids; the test is supposed to measure ability, not learned achievement.

So many people doing it, you are at a disadvantage if you don’t. It’s just the truth.

I am not disputing this but just one lone voice out in the world saying we did zero prep with either of our kids. My one kid did well but not a super high score. My other kid got a really high score. Based on what I know about them, the test did it's job and placed them where they should be and reflected their ability. It didn't cross my mind to do prep.

We knew our kids were probably borderline but wanted to nudge them over the edge. You can't prove the negative but they are now doing great and it was a minimal time/money investment from us. I don't see any harm.

The harm is that these tests than become about who has resources and knowledge to prep their kids for them and is why in more diverse schools, the white kids end up tagged gifted and the non-white kids less so. Look at any school or school systems stats. It's a known issue. It does do pretty large harm in the aggregate.

That's not my problem as a parent. My responsibility is to see that my kids get the best possible education, and that they are properly challenged. They can clearly do the work (because they are) so they should have access to it. The fact that other kids are being missed is the school's issue to deal with.

Yes, I am clear you feel that way. We all get it. I'm not saying I disagree with you or your decision. The point is, again, the system as it is set up is in fact causing harm. Call a spade a spade folks.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are sample questions embedded into the testing sessions. Please don't buy practice books for your kids; the test is supposed to measure ability, not learned achievement.

So many people doing it, you are at a disadvantage if you don’t. It’s just the truth.

I am not disputing this but just one lone voice out in the world saying we did zero prep with either of our kids. My one kid did well but not a super high score. My other kid got a really high score. Based on what I know about them, the test did it's job and placed them where they should be and reflected their ability. It didn't cross my mind to do prep.

We knew our kids were probably borderline but wanted to nudge them over the edge. You can't prove the negative but they are now doing great and it was a minimal time/money investment from us. I don't see any harm.

The harm is that these tests than become about who has resources and knowledge to prep their kids for them and is why in more diverse schools, the white kids end up tagged gifted and the non-white kids less so. Look at any school or school systems stats. It's a known issue. It does do pretty large harm in the aggregate.

If the test is that easy to prep kids for, then the schools should either switch tests or do some prep in school so everyone benefits from the prep. If the school isn't doing that then that is a systemic problem and you as a parent have to do what is best for your kid. Just like I give my kids extra math work for reinforcement since they don't get math homework. That also disadvantages lower-income kids whose parents don't have the resources to do this. And so while the school got rid of homework in the name of equity, likely doing that just made equity issues worse.

Except schools did not actually get rid of homework in the name of equity. There hasn't been homework in many elementary schools for years even before the current era of all equity all the time because giving homework to kids that age is not evidence-based. I do understand it makes Type A people feel better. Oh and there is still homework in middle school and high school.

My kids are in an APS middle school that does not have homework and has implied it is because of equity. It is a rough transition from no homework in 8th grade to lots of homework in high school for a lot of kids. I don't know where you are getting your info on homework in middle school but it is not consistent with my kids' experience. I agree that no homework in elementary makes sense. But for kids learning algebra and geometry in middle school, I think it is nuts.

I have a child at Swanson and he definitely has homework. This includes math homework, reading assignments, studying for tests, and homework in his world language.

I'm the PP
That is interesting. No regular homework at Gunston.

To be clear I'm not talking nightly homework in every subject. But math 1-2x a week at home (in accelerated math track), an entire book was read at home with some writing, studying for tests 2-4x a month. And his language teacher has regular practice that needs to be done at home. He gets time to finish homework at school but doesn't finish it all and above is what he brings home.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are sample questions embedded into the testing sessions. Please don't buy practice books for your kids; the test is supposed to measure ability, not learned achievement.

So many people doing it, you are at a disadvantage if you don’t. It’s just the truth.

I am not disputing this but just one lone voice out in the world saying we did zero prep with either of our kids. My one kid did well but not a super high score. My other kid got a really high score. Based on what I know about them, the test did it's job and placed them where they should be and reflected their ability. It didn't cross my mind to do prep.

Same. We did nothing and my kids got 144 and 140. This was in FCPS so they took it in 2nd grade. I would think for older kids prep would be even less necessary. Unless you want them to appear smarter than they are. Which many people seem to want. I already knew my kids were really smart so it just didn't even cross my mind and I didn't care f everyone else was prepping.

So you didn't bother to prep but your kids both have access to the accelerated learning? Lucky you, but your opinion doesn't count here.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are sample questions embedded into the testing sessions. Please don't buy practice books for your kids; the test is supposed to measure ability, not learned achievement.

So many people doing it, you are at a disadvantage if you don’t. It’s just the truth.

I am not disputing this but just one lone voice out in the world saying we did zero prep with either of our kids. My one kid did well but not a super high score. My other kid got a really high score. Based on what I know about them, the test did it's job and placed them where they should be and reflected their ability. It didn't cross my mind to do prep.

We knew our kids were probably borderline but wanted to nudge them over the edge. You can't prove the negative but they are now doing great and it was a minimal time/money investment from us. I don't see any harm.

The harm is that these tests than become about who has resources and knowledge to prep their kids for them and is why in more diverse schools, the white kids end up tagged gifted and the non-white kids less so. Look at any school or school systems stats. It's a known issue. It does do pretty large harm in the aggregate.

That's not my problem as a parent. My responsibility is to see that my kids get the best possible education, and that they are properly challenged. They can clearly do the work (because they are) so they should have access to it. The fact that other kids are being missed is the school's issue to deal with.