Anonymous
Post 10/11/2022 22:00     Subject: why is russia friendly with belarus but not ukraine?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Without the Russian oligarchs, Trump, Giuliani and whoever else, Ukraine would still be corrupt because corruption in the country is endemic, not brought from the outside. You don’t understand the culture if you think otherwise. Anti corruption makes a great campaign slogan but it doesn't really change things on the ground. Repeating: corruption simply isn’t seen as a big deal.


Corruption in this case is a legacy of the Soviet Union and its breakup It is not innate.


Lol yes because the Russian Empire and the Central Asian khanates before 1917 were, like, the picture of integrity and accountability.


And the people revolted This particular breed of corruption is very much related to late stage USSR and its breakup. That's where the cultural memories are from
It's not like corruption is genetic. One good thing about Russia's invasion, crimes against humanity and non-stop comical embarrassments is it has provided daily reminders of why an autocratic corrupt system is so bad. That is literally what they are rejecting and fighting against. Maybe they'll revert back. But they have a chance. A new chapter of their history is being formed right now. What happens now is the new Ukrainian formative memory. This is their creation story.


You are so determined to bend facts to suit your argument, it's almost comical. You think USSR came into the tabula rasa? Or did it grow on what was there to begin with? You think there was no cultural memory at all prior to 1917? No culture (not like ballet or art, like "the shared understanding of how things ought to be done")? You think revolts remake thousands of years of history wholesale? Oh I know, you're from the neocon family who believes you can "import democracy" to places like Iraq and Afghanistan, you only have to press the right buttons and people will morph into brown-skinned copies of us!
Anonymous
Post 10/11/2022 21:49     Subject: why is russia friendly with belarus but not ukraine?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Without the Russian oligarchs, Trump, Giuliani and whoever else, Ukraine would still be corrupt because corruption in the country is endemic, not brought from the outside. You don’t understand the culture if you think otherwise. Anti corruption makes a great campaign slogan but it doesn't really change things on the ground. Repeating: corruption simply isn’t seen as a big deal.


Corruption in this case is a legacy of the Soviet Union and its breakup It is not innate.


Lol yes because the Russian Empire and the Central Asian khanates before 1917 were, like, the picture of integrity and accountability.


And the people revolted This particular breed of corruption is very much related to late stage USSR and its breakup. That's where the cultural memories are from
It's not like corruption is genetic. One good thing about Russia's invasion, crimes against humanity and non-stop comical embarrassments is it has provided daily reminders of why an autocratic corrupt system is so bad. That is literally what they are rejecting and fighting against. Maybe they'll revert back. But they have a chance. A new chapter of their history is being formed right now. What happens now is the new Ukrainian formative memory. This is their creation story.
Anonymous
Post 10/11/2022 20:22     Subject: why is russia friendly with belarus but not ukraine?
Also a point of interest: Ukraine has native oligarchs. Who woulda thunk it?
Anonymous
Post 10/11/2022 20:20     Subject: why is russia friendly with belarus but not ukraine?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Without the Russian oligarchs, Trump, Giuliani and whoever else, Ukraine would still be corrupt because corruption in the country is endemic, not brought from the outside. You don’t understand the culture if you think otherwise. Anti corruption makes a great campaign slogan but it doesn't really change things on the ground. Repeating: corruption simply isn’t seen as a big deal.


Every place is corrupt. That’s why we make them choose. If you want investment and financing and trade from the West, here are the legal and financial system requirements - no more Russian oligarchs looting the treasury. It’s not perfect but it works better than supporting incompetent kleptocratic regimes as we did in Afghanistan. Ukraine isn’t Afghanistan. It isn’t Belarus.


Oh stop child the West trades and finances corrupt oppressive Gulf dictatorships just fine.
Anonymous
Post 10/11/2022 20:19     Subject: Re:why is russia friendly with belarus but not ukraine?
Anonymous wrote:You notice how the Russian propagandists are frantically trying to distract attention from the deteriorating situation in Russia?

" a viewer may have concluded that it was just an ordinary Monday morning in Moscow."
“Overall, the messages are pretty clear: that the war is still going in the right direction, on the whole,”
“Stop reading ideological opponents,” who are working to instill “panic” in Russian society
“with us, historically, this is how it is. Don’t get hysterical. Everything is in our hands.”
https://news.yahoo.com/russian-media-confronts-new...problem-reality-180231942.html

I think this is a freudian slip. I can't ever remember a Russian propagandist instructing his following not to panic or get hysterical? It's clear these random missile strikes on civilians is just emotional lashing out in anger without a strategy behind them.

So here's Krasovsky on television saying this was a fantastic day, and he literally danced to the news. This is what Russians, he claimed, had been waiting for all these months, you know, proof they were winning. And he said he wanted to wake up every morning and read the same pain was being inflicted on the enemy.
https://www.wunc.org/2022-10-11/russias-strikes-on-ukraine-may-also-have-been-meant-to-quell-doubts-at-home

Why is Krasovsky even so pro-Putin? No idea. Maybe he's channelling Patty Hearst? Or Edward Snowden? The irony here is that Krasovsky is gay, so is probably the furthest thing from your typical Russian ultranationalist.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anton_Krasovsky


Oh yes it’s you, the poster with a gift of asking basic questions whilst looking thoughtful. Why is Krasovsky so pro-Putin indeed? It couldn’t possibly be because being pro-Putin pays better than the alternative? I mean who is motivated by money and power, right? Have never heard of such a thing!
Anonymous
Post 10/11/2022 20:17     Subject: why is russia friendly with belarus but not ukraine?
Anonymous wrote:Without the Russian oligarchs, Trump, Giuliani and whoever else, Ukraine would still be corrupt because corruption in the country is endemic, not brought from the outside. You don’t understand the culture if you think otherwise. Anti corruption makes a great campaign slogan but it doesn't really change things on the ground. Repeating: corruption simply isn’t seen as a big deal.


Every place is corrupt. That’s why we make them choose. If you want investment and financing and trade from the West, here are the legal and financial system requirements - no more Russian oligarchs looting the treasury. It’s not perfect but it works better than supporting incompetent kleptocratic regimes as we did in Afghanistan. Ukraine isn’t Afghanistan. It isn’t Belarus.
Anonymous
Post 10/11/2022 20:14     Subject: why is russia friendly with belarus but not ukraine?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Without the Russian oligarchs, Trump, Giuliani and whoever else, Ukraine would still be corrupt because corruption in the country is endemic, not brought from the outside. You don’t understand the culture if you think otherwise. Anti corruption makes a great campaign slogan but it doesn't really change things on the ground. Repeating: corruption simply isn’t seen as a big deal.


Corruption in this case is a legacy of the Soviet Union and its breakup It is not innate.


Lol yes because the Russian Empire and the Central Asian khanates before 1917 were, like, the picture of integrity and accountability.
Anonymous
Post 10/11/2022 20:11     Subject: Re:why is russia friendly with belarus but not ukraine?
The real reason why Belarus is willing to send troops.

“To fight together and support the Belarusian resistance. The (Belarusian) Joint Transitional Cabinet is ready to cooperate with Ukraine and establish diplomatic and political relations. We are ready to act together with Ukraine because without a free Ukraine there can be no free Belarus and Europe.”
https://news.yahoo.com/tsikhanouskaya-offers-zelenskyy-build-alliance-141300371.html

Having Russian troops on Belarus soil will make it more difficult for the local population to rebel. However, it also presents a number of lucrative opportunities to interfere with the Russian military.

You scratch my back..

Anonymous
Post 10/11/2022 20:11     Subject: why is russia friendly with belarus but not ukraine?
Anonymous wrote:Without the Russian oligarchs, Trump, Giuliani and whoever else, Ukraine would still be corrupt because corruption in the country is endemic, not brought from the outside. You don’t understand the culture if you think otherwise. Anti corruption makes a great campaign slogan but it doesn't really change things on the ground. Repeating: corruption simply isn’t seen as a big deal.


Corruption in this case is a legacy of the Soviet Union and its breakup It is not innate.
Anonymous
Post 10/11/2022 19:29     Subject: Re:why is russia friendly with belarus but not ukraine?
You notice how the Russian propagandists are frantically trying to distract attention from the deteriorating situation in Russia?

" a viewer may have concluded that it was just an ordinary Monday morning in Moscow."
“Overall, the messages are pretty clear: that the war is still going in the right direction, on the whole,”
“Stop reading ideological opponents,” who are working to instill “panic” in Russian society
“with us, historically, this is how it is. Don’t get hysterical. Everything is in our hands.”
https://news.yahoo.com/russian-media-confronts-new...problem-reality-180231942.html

I think this is a freudian slip. I can't ever remember a Russian propagandist instructing his following not to panic or get hysterical? It's clear these random missile strikes on civilians is just emotional lashing out in anger without a strategy behind them.

So here's Krasovsky on television saying this was a fantastic day, and he literally danced to the news. This is what Russians, he claimed, had been waiting for all these months, you know, proof they were winning. And he said he wanted to wake up every morning and read the same pain was being inflicted on the enemy.
https://www.wunc.org/2022-10-11/russias-strikes-on-ukraine-may-also-have-been-meant-to-quell-doubts-at-home

Why is Krasovsky even so pro-Putin? No idea. Maybe he's channelling Patty Hearst? Or Edward Snowden? The irony here is that Krasovsky is gay, so is probably the furthest thing from your typical Russian ultranationalist.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anton_Krasovsky
Anonymous
Post 10/11/2022 17:55     Subject: why is russia friendly with belarus but not ukraine?
Without the Russian oligarchs, Trump, Giuliani and whoever else, Ukraine would still be corrupt because corruption in the country is endemic, not brought from the outside. You don’t understand the culture if you think otherwise. Anti corruption makes a great campaign slogan but it doesn't really change things on the ground. Repeating: corruption simply isn’t seen as a big deal.
Anonymous
Post 10/11/2022 17:47     Subject: why is russia friendly with belarus but not ukraine?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Ukraine doesn’t want to be a corrupt Russian puppet.


It doesn't need to be a Russian puppet to be corrupt. See Transparency International 2021.


They needed to get rid of the Russian oligarchs but also the corrupt Ukrainians who were fronting for the Russian oligarchs. That’s what the IMF, EU, and US were trying to do, set up anti-corruption systems and practices that were independent. That’s why Trump, Giuliani, Perry, et al had to smear Yovanovitch. They were working for the Russian oligarchs and the corrupt Ukrainians.


LOL I would just say, with all my kindness, that most countries where the US & Co. tried to set up "anti-corruption practices" responded with creating a new set of corruption mechanisms that successfully siphoned off what the US has pumped in. I mean, really. You cannot change culture overnight, and Ukraine's culture, like all FSU territories, simply does not view corruption as a deadly sin.


That’s why an independent prosecutor was at the top of the IMF & US list of conditions for further investment. Despite all the US laws and systems and norms, the previous Mississippi Governor fraudulently handed out federal welfare money to Brett Favre and a dozen other political cronies in a blatantly corrupt manner yet the current Governor fired the prosecutor when he sought to subpoena the former Gov. There has to be an independent investigative authority. Ukraine without Russian oligarchs is not any more corrupt than Mississippi. Ukraine with Russian oligarchs is a lost cause.
Anonymous
Post 10/11/2022 17:34     Subject: why is russia friendly with belarus but not ukraine?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Ukraine doesn’t want to be a corrupt Russian puppet.


It doesn't need to be a Russian puppet to be corrupt. See Transparency International 2021.


They needed to get rid of the Russian oligarchs but also the corrupt Ukrainians who were fronting for the Russian oligarchs. That’s what the IMF, EU, and US were trying to do, set up anti-corruption systems and practices that were independent. That’s why Trump, Giuliani, Perry, et al had to smear Yovanovitch. They were working for the Russian oligarchs and the corrupt Ukrainians.


LOL I would just say, with all my kindness, that most countries where the US & Co. tried to set up "anti-corruption practices" responded with creating a new set of corruption mechanisms that successfully siphoned off what the US has pumped in. I mean, really. You cannot change culture overnight, and Ukraine's culture, like all FSU territories, simply does not view corruption as a deadly sin.


That’s why it is a long-term process that needs consistent policy and pressure. Ukraine voted to get rid of corrupt actors but some were still embedded in the government and Giuliani and Trump took the bad guys side. Trump sold out the US and Ukraine to keep the money laundering coming.
Anonymous
Post 10/11/2022 17:30     Subject: why is russia friendly with belarus but not ukraine?
The IMF, EU, and non-Trump US are the anti-corruption side. They were consistent in telling Ukraine that loans and investment and assistance was contingent on legal and financial reforms and transparency. That is what Russia and pro-Russia Republicans are against. Trump’s gang want Ukraine to be a corrupt puppet of Russia so they can share in Russia’s theft of Ukraine’s resources by facilitating the money laundering.
Anonymous
Post 10/11/2022 17:29     Subject: why is russia friendly with belarus but not ukraine?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Ukraine doesn’t want to be a corrupt Russian puppet.


It doesn't need to be a Russian puppet to be corrupt. See Transparency International 2021.


They needed to get rid of the Russian oligarchs but also the corrupt Ukrainians who were fronting for the Russian oligarchs. That’s what the IMF, EU, and US were trying to do, set up anti-corruption systems and practices that were independent. That’s why Trump, Giuliani, Perry, et al had to smear Yovanovitch. They were working for the Russian oligarchs and the corrupt Ukrainians.


LOL I would just say, with all my kindness, that most countries where the US & Co. tried to set up "anti-corruption practices" responded with creating a new set of corruption mechanisms that successfully siphoned off what the US has pumped in. I mean, really. You cannot change culture overnight, and Ukraine's culture, like all FSU territories, simply does not view corruption as a deadly sin.