Anonymous wrote:I guess "good guys with guns" is a total fallacy

"Good guys with a gun" always has been a fallacy. The more "good guys with guns" we get in America, the more gun violence comes with it.

I guess "good guys with guns" is a total fallacy

Anonymous wrote:The Texas Department of Public Safety has filed an appeal to the judge’s ruling to release material related to its Robb Elementary School response.
https://www.ksat.com/news/ksat-investigates/2023/11/30/judge-orders-dps-to-release-videos-investigative-material-from-robb-elementary-shooting/

Why are they even bothering? Anyone with half a brain knows their response was completely incompetent.

The Texas Department of Public Safety has filed an appeal to the judge’s ruling to release material related to its Robb Elementary School response.
https://www.ksat.com/news/ksat-investigates/2023/11/30/judge-orders-dps-to-release-videos-investigative-material-from-robb-elementary-shooting/

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would have more respect for police if they didn't support an increase in the number of armed citizens and if they didn't support AR-15s in the hands of civilians. You would think that the opposite would be true--that cops would want fewer guns on the street so that they wouldn't have to fear for their lives every time they go out on a shift. But, no, they want MORE guns under the theory that a "good guy" with a gun can help prevent mass shootings. Even though that rarely happens IRL...

Basically we're in a domestic arms race where "bad guys" and cops are equipped with more and more weapons and fear and paranoia increase.

The "good guy with a gun" who killed two terrorists in the recent Jerusalem bus station attack five days ago was shot and killed by Israeli soldiers while he was kneeling on the ground with his hands up in the air. Netanyahu coldly responded to reporters about the tragic killing of the hero - "That's life."
https://www.cnn.com/2023/12/04/middleeast/castleman-israel-jerusalem-hamas-shot-backlash-intl/index.html
https://www.timesofisrael.com/family-says-yuval-castleman-killed-after-taking-out-terrorists-was-executed/

Cops killed the "good guy with a gun" in the Arvada, CO mass shooting:
https://www.cpr.org/2022/06/22/olde-town-arvada-shooting-johnny-hurley/

What do soldiers in Israel have to do with mass shootings in U.S. schools? Did you have trouble staying on topic in school? Your comment will get lost when you could have posted it in an appropriate thread. You are just rage farming. There is no multinational police plot to kill citizens. Just a bunch of localized, incompetent cowards.

NP It is absolutely relevant because it shows what happens when a “good guy with a gun” is mistaken for a “bad guy with a gun”.

Speaking as a good guy with gun, if I were mistakenly shot by police after I had stopped a killer, I would at least be content that the sacrifice I made saved the lives of others. We all die eventually. Very few of us get to exchange the end of our own lives with the prolonging of the lives of others.

I'd prefer the cop get a trial and a needle in the arm, but to each their own

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would have more respect for police if they didn't support an increase in the number of armed citizens and if they didn't support AR-15s in the hands of civilians. You would think that the opposite would be true--that cops would want fewer guns on the street so that they wouldn't have to fear for their lives every time they go out on a shift. But, no, they want MORE guns under the theory that a "good guy" with a gun can help prevent mass shootings. Even though that rarely happens IRL...

Basically we're in a domestic arms race where "bad guys" and cops are equipped with more and more weapons and fear and paranoia increase.

The "good guy with a gun" who killed two terrorists in the recent Jerusalem bus station attack five days ago was shot and killed by Israeli soldiers while he was kneeling on the ground with his hands up in the air. Netanyahu coldly responded to reporters about the tragic killing of the hero - "That's life."
https://www.cnn.com/2023/12/04/middleeast/castleman-israel-jerusalem-hamas-shot-backlash-intl/index.html
https://www.timesofisrael.com/family-says-yuval-castleman-killed-after-taking-out-terrorists-was-executed/

Cops killed the "good guy with a gun" in the Arvada, CO mass shooting:
https://www.cpr.org/2022/06/22/olde-town-arvada-shooting-johnny-hurley/

What do soldiers in Israel have to do with mass shootings in U.S. schools? Did you have trouble staying on topic in school? Your comment will get lost when you could have posted it in an appropriate thread. You are just rage farming. There is no multinational police plot to kill citizens. Just a bunch of localized, incompetent cowards.

NP It is absolutely relevant because it shows what happens when a “good guy with a gun” is mistaken for a “bad guy with a gun”.

Speaking as a good guy with gun, if I were mistakenly shot by police after I had stopped a killer, I would at least be content that the sacrifice I made saved the lives of others. We all die eventually. Very few of us get to exchange the end of our own lives with the prolonging of the lives of others.

Instead of you living out your hero fantasies, I’d be happier if the huge and powerful guns that civilians don’t need for anything ever were banned and no moms and dads had to bury the remaining pieces of their child.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would have more respect for police if they didn't support an increase in the number of armed citizens and if they didn't support AR-15s in the hands of civilians. You would think that the opposite would be true--that cops would want fewer guns on the street so that they wouldn't have to fear for their lives every time they go out on a shift. But, no, they want MORE guns under the theory that a "good guy" with a gun can help prevent mass shootings. Even though that rarely happens IRL...

Basically we're in a domestic arms race where "bad guys" and cops are equipped with more and more weapons and fear and paranoia increase.

The "good guy with a gun" who killed two terrorists in the recent Jerusalem bus station attack five days ago was shot and killed by Israeli soldiers while he was kneeling on the ground with his hands up in the air. Netanyahu coldly responded to reporters about the tragic killing of the hero - "That's life."
https://www.cnn.com/2023/12/04/middleeast/castleman-israel-jerusalem-hamas-shot-backlash-intl/index.html
https://www.timesofisrael.com/family-says-yuval-castleman-killed-after-taking-out-terrorists-was-executed/

Cops killed the "good guy with a gun" in the Arvada, CO mass shooting:
https://www.cpr.org/2022/06/22/olde-town-arvada-shooting-johnny-hurley/

What do soldiers in Israel have to do with mass shootings in U.S. schools? Did you have trouble staying on topic in school? Your comment will get lost when you could have posted it in an appropriate thread. You are just rage farming. There is no multinational police plot to kill citizens. Just a bunch of localized, incompetent cowards.

NP It is absolutely relevant because it shows what happens when a “good guy with a gun” is mistaken for a “bad guy with a gun”.

Speaking as a good guy with gun, if I were mistakenly shot by police after I had stopped a killer, I would at least be content that the sacrifice I made saved the lives of others. We all die eventually. Very few of us get to exchange the end of our own lives with the prolonging of the lives of others.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This nation has entered a strange twilight zone where good people get terrorized by the cops; meantime municipalities are allowing criminals to get away with crime.

A tiny, skinny little woman with a child inside the school burst past the Uvalde cops to enter the school, while grown men with arsenals stood outside and beat up on the parents. She emerged from the school with her child, and many other children as well. She saved their lives. SHE'S A HERO.

If I recall correctly, she was arrested for entering the school after the cops tried to prevent her from going in.

Let THAT sink in.

This is what happens in actual fascist or authoritarian states. State security forces do not protect the citizens; they protect only their clique's own privileges and their political benefactors. Criminals are emboldened because they know the state security forces are no longer protecting civilians.

Tone it down, Vlad.

Shut up. You clearly have never lived in a country taken over by an authoritarian government, such as Putin's government.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would have more respect for police if they didn't support an increase in the number of armed citizens and if they didn't support AR-15s in the hands of civilians. You would think that the opposite would be true--that cops would want fewer guns on the street so that they wouldn't have to fear for their lives every time they go out on a shift. But, no, they want MORE guns under the theory that a "good guy" with a gun can help prevent mass shootings. Even though that rarely happens IRL...

Basically we're in a domestic arms race where "bad guys" and cops are equipped with more and more weapons and fear and paranoia increase.

The "good guy with a gun" who killed two terrorists in the recent Jerusalem bus station attack five days ago was shot and killed by Israeli soldiers while he was kneeling on the ground with his hands up in the air. Netanyahu coldly responded to reporters about the tragic killing of the hero - "That's life."
https://www.cnn.com/2023/12/04/middleeast/castleman-israel-jerusalem-hamas-shot-backlash-intl/index.html
https://www.timesofisrael.com/family-says-yuval-castleman-killed-after-taking-out-terrorists-was-executed/

Cops killed the "good guy with a gun" in the Arvada, CO mass shooting:
https://www.cpr.org/2022/06/22/olde-town-arvada-shooting-johnny-hurley/

What do soldiers in Israel have to do with mass shootings in U.S. schools? Did you have trouble staying on topic in school? Your comment will get lost when you could have posted it in an appropriate thread. You are just rage farming. There is no multinational police plot to kill citizens. Just a bunch of localized, incompetent cowards.

NP It is absolutely relevant because it shows what happens when a “good guy with a gun” is mistaken for a “bad guy with a gun”.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would have more respect for police if they didn't support an increase in the number of armed citizens and if they didn't support AR-15s in the hands of civilians. You would think that the opposite would be true--that cops would want fewer guns on the street so that they wouldn't have to fear for their lives every time they go out on a shift. But, no, they want MORE guns under the theory that a "good guy" with a gun can help prevent mass shootings. Even though that rarely happens IRL...

Basically we're in a domestic arms race where "bad guys" and cops are equipped with more and more weapons and fear and paranoia increase.

The "good guy with a gun" who killed two terrorists in the recent Jerusalem bus station attack five days ago was shot and killed by Israeli soldiers while he was kneeling on the ground with his hands up in the air. Netanyahu coldly responded to reporters about the tragic killing of the hero - "That's life."
https://www.cnn.com/2023/12/04/middleeast/castleman-israel-jerusalem-hamas-shot-backlash-intl/index.html
https://www.timesofisrael.com/family-says-yuval-castleman-killed-after-taking-out-terrorists-was-executed/

Cops killed the "good guy with a gun" in the Arvada, CO mass shooting:
https://www.cpr.org/2022/06/22/olde-town-arvada-shooting-johnny-hurley/

What do soldiers in Israel have to do with mass shootings in U.S. schools? Did you have trouble staying on topic in school? Your comment will get lost when you could have posted it in an appropriate thread. You are just rage farming. There is no multinational police plot to kill citizens. Just a bunch of localized, incompetent cowards.

Israel is hotly debating right now whether to allow more civilians to carry firearms in the wake of October 7th.

As this incident shows, a reserve officer - who was authorized and trained to carry a firearm - was killed by his fellow Israeli soldiers because they were not sure if he was part of the terrorists committing the attack. He was wearing civilians attire. He actually killed the two terrorists and prevented a bigger massacre, but the arriving military forces didn't know that. They then shot and killed him while he was kneeling with his hands above his head.

Tragedy compounded by tragedy when people in street clothes carry firearms.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would have more respect for police if they didn't support an increase in the number of armed citizens and if they didn't support AR-15s in the hands of civilians. You would think that the opposite would be true--that cops would want fewer guns on the street so that they wouldn't have to fear for their lives every time they go out on a shift. But, no, they want MORE guns under the theory that a "good guy" with a gun can help prevent mass shootings. Even though that rarely happens IRL...

Basically we're in a domestic arms race where "bad guys" and cops are equipped with more and more weapons and fear and paranoia increase.

The "good guy with a gun" who killed two terrorists in the recent Jerusalem bus station attack five days ago was shot and killed by Israeli soldiers while he was kneeling on the ground with his hands up in the air. Netanyahu coldly responded to reporters about the tragic killing of the hero - "That's life."
https://www.cnn.com/2023/12/04/middleeast/castleman-israel-jerusalem-hamas-shot-backlash-intl/index.html
https://www.timesofisrael.com/family-says-yuval-castleman-killed-after-taking-out-terrorists-was-executed/

Cops killed the "good guy with a gun" in the Arvada, CO mass shooting:
https://www.cpr.org/2022/06/22/olde-town-arvada-shooting-johnny-hurley/

PP here. Did not know about either of these two events--thanks for posting. We just cannot count on having "good guys with a gun" on the scene every time a "bad guy with a gun" threatens people. And, as your examples show, even if a good guy with a gun does intervene, cops can't always tell them apart from the bad guy with a gun. It is very hard to control what happens when one or more people with guns (whether cops, civilians, or bad guys) come in contact with each other.

+1.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would have more respect for police if they didn't support an increase in the number of armed citizens and if they didn't support AR-15s in the hands of civilians. You would think that the opposite would be true--that cops would want fewer guns on the street so that they wouldn't have to fear for their lives every time they go out on a shift. But, no, they want MORE guns under the theory that a "good guy" with a gun can help prevent mass shootings. Even though that rarely happens IRL...

Basically we're in a domestic arms race where "bad guys" and cops are equipped with more and more weapons and fear and paranoia increase.

The "good guy with a gun" who killed two terrorists in the recent Jerusalem bus station attack five days ago was shot and killed by Israeli soldiers while he was kneeling on the ground with his hands up in the air. Netanyahu coldly responded to reporters about the tragic killing of the hero - "That's life."
https://www.cnn.com/2023/12/04/middleeast/castleman-israel-jerusalem-hamas-shot-backlash-intl/index.html
https://www.timesofisrael.com/family-says-yuval-castleman-killed-after-taking-out-terrorists-was-executed/

Cops killed the "good guy with a gun" in the Arvada, CO mass shooting:
https://www.cpr.org/2022/06/22/olde-town-arvada-shooting-johnny-hurley/

What do soldiers in Israel have to do with mass shootings in U.S. schools? Did you have trouble staying on topic in school? Your comment will get lost when you could have posted it in an appropriate thread. You are just rage farming. There is no multinational police plot to kill citizens. Just a bunch of localized, incompetent cowards.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This nation has entered a strange twilight zone where good people get terrorized by the cops; meantime municipalities are allowing criminals to get away with crime.

A tiny, skinny little woman with a child inside the school burst past the Uvalde cops to enter the school, while grown men with arsenals stood outside and beat up on the parents. She emerged from the school with her child, and many other children as well. She saved their lives. SHE'S A HERO.

If I recall correctly, she was arrested for entering the school after the cops tried to prevent her from going in.

Let THAT sink in.

This is what happens in actual fascist or authoritarian states. State security forces do not protect the citizens; they protect only their clique's own privileges and their political benefactors. Criminals are emboldened because they know the state security forces are no longer protecting civilians.

Tone it down, Vlad.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would have more respect for police if they didn't support an increase in the number of armed citizens and if they didn't support AR-15s in the hands of civilians. You would think that the opposite would be true--that cops would want fewer guns on the street so that they wouldn't have to fear for their lives every time they go out on a shift. But, no, they want MORE guns under the theory that a "good guy" with a gun can help prevent mass shootings. Even though that rarely happens IRL...

Basically we're in a domestic arms race where "bad guys" and cops are equipped with more and more weapons and fear and paranoia increase.

The "good guy with a gun" who killed two terrorists in the recent Jerusalem bus station attack five days ago was shot and killed by Israeli soldiers while he was kneeling on the ground with his hands up in the air. Netanyahu coldly responded to reporters about the tragic killing of the hero - "That's life."
https://www.cnn.com/2023/12/04/middleeast/castleman-israel-jerusalem-hamas-shot-backlash-intl/index.html
https://www.timesofisrael.com/family-says-yuval-castleman-killed-after-taking-out-terrorists-was-executed/

Cops killed the "good guy with a gun" in the Arvada, CO mass shooting:
https://www.cpr.org/2022/06/22/olde-town-arvada-shooting-johnny-hurley/

PP here. Did not know about either of these two events--thanks for posting. We just cannot count on having "good guys with a gun" on the scene every time a "bad guy with a gun" threatens people. And, as your examples show, even if a good guy with a gun does intervene, cops can't always tell them apart from the bad guy with a gun. It is very hard to control what happens when one or more people with guns (whether cops, civilians, or bad guys) come in contact with each other.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This nation has entered a strange twilight zone where good people get terrorized by the cops; meantime municipalities are allowing criminals to get away with crime.

A tiny, skinny little woman with a child inside the school burst past the Uvalde cops to enter the school, while grown men with arsenals stood outside and beat up on the parents. She emerged from the school with her child, and many other children as well. She saved their lives. SHE'S A HERO.

If I recall correctly, she was arrested for entering the school after the cops tried to prevent her from going in.

Let THAT sink in.

This is what happens in actual fascist or authoritarian states. State security forces do not protect the citizens; they protect only their clique's own privileges and their political benefactors. Criminals are emboldened because they know the state security forces are no longer protecting civilians.

We as a nation should be very concerned about this development.

Those planning to vote Democratic are concerned about the GOP’s fascism. Those planning to vote Republican are happy. Statistically speaking, it’s not likely to be their kid dead, and Republicans love making other people’s lives miserable. Republican voters cheer these developments because they think that they will be in the in group. Morons.

Oh and to address the police’s failings: there’s a very simple answer. Put investigation of police and discipline for bad actors outside the control of the police and police unions, and pass laws so that those found guilty of abusing their power are allowed nowhere near the police force again. (Derek Chauvin, murderer of George Floyd one May day in Minneapolis, would not have been on the force to kill him had he been kicked off the force for good after he choked all the people prior.)