Anonymous
Post 10/04/2022 16:40     Subject: Help DS Decide: Duke ED or Harvard/Princeton REA
Does he have reasons to apply to any of these schools? Can he list the professors he’s excited about studying with? Has he read their papers and emailed their grad students? Are there particular programs that he is excited about contributing to?
Anonymous
Post 10/04/2022 16:40     Subject: Help DS Decide: Duke ED or Harvard/Princeton REA
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Duke. Better chance there with ED and he loves it. Not sure what his national awards are (could be game changer depending on what they are) but sports that aren’t at recruitment level won’t be that helpful in admissions process.


Some of his national awards are generic (like AP Scholar) but some are quite unique and competitive - his written award winning essays and entered national (maybe even international, not entirely sure) economics competitions and done well, among other things. He is not at the level of being recruited for sports, certainly not by Duke, but he still puts a lot of time into them.


The time he spent on sports speaks to his commitment, leadership, and discipline - and his ability to earn top grades even with that time commitment. But it doesn’t add much to campus life given the colleges already take so many athletes, including through the recruitment process. It’s not as big of a plus as many parents think based on the huge level of commitment it required of their family.


I see. He is thinking of getting a letter of recommendation from the coach of the sport he is a captain of, if that makes any difference.


Has this coach also taught him?


If not, an enthusiastic letter saying what a dedicated player and best leader ever is actually pretty generic. I hate to sound harsh but just spelling this one out. I’d play up your son’s scholarly abilities and interests. Clearly he’s very smart.
Anonymous
Post 10/04/2022 16:40     Subject: Re:Help DS Decide: Duke ED or Harvard/Princeton REA
Anonymous wrote:OP: If not admitted early, to which other schools would your son apply ?

Decent boost for leadership as captain of an athletic team regardless of whether or not he continues playing that sport.

If your son has an above average chance for Harvard or Princeton and he likes each school, then go for it unless he loves Duke and just likes the other two.

I assure you that some recent Duke grads did not place well in the job market.


If not admitted early to Duke, he would apply to schools like Harvard, Princeton, Yale, Dartmouth, University of Pennsylvania, Georgetown, Vanderbilt, UVA, University of Maryland, and some others. I believe Fordham gives scholarships for national merit scholars too.

I agree not everyone at top schools get the best placements, that's just bound to happen especially with the current economy. Even Harvard grads likely flounder every now and then, but it's good to hear that many people know Duke grads from the DMV who have gone on to do great things.
Anonymous
Post 10/04/2022 16:34     Subject: Help DS Decide: Duke ED or Harvard/Princeton REA
Anonymous wrote:Are you in the DMV? What school? The more specific you are the better advice folks can give. Since his first choice is Duke that is definitely where I would ED to.


Yes DMV, won't say the exact school because they publish valedictorians and salutatorians each year, which DS is on track for. I think Duke ED is making more and more sense.
Anonymous
Post 10/04/2022 16:32     Subject: Re:Help DS Decide: Duke ED or Harvard/Princeton REA
All of the factors that a PP makes that limit Duke ED chances apply to the other schools as well. They also take their athletes, legacies, geniuses etc. kncoming down Early admissions rates.
Duke is binding ED which makes it more of an advantage than the others. Also the percentage chances are much higher.
I’d go for Duke.
Anonymous
Post 10/04/2022 16:30     Subject: Re:Help DS Decide: Duke ED or Harvard/Princeton REA
Anonymous wrote:Absolutely ED Duke.
1. This has gotten harder since Covid so some of the Naviance stats from years past (pre-2021) may not apply.
2. I went to Harvard undergrad. People mostly don’t like it. Duke is more than prestigious enough.
3. ED is a big leg up at Duke - I think 20 percent admit rate. Harvard is 7 percent - a big difference. I think Princeton won’t even say it’s so bad.
4. RD is ridiculous these days - esp post COVID. You might get in to none.
5. Make sure his essay is interesting and says something about who he is. Too many students write the same things and that contributes to them all seeming similar.

Congrats to your son.


Thank you for your insight. It's very interesting that you say people mostly did not like their Harvard experience, what do you think is the cause for that and how did you feel about your experience there? I agree that regular decision now is ludicrous, and it may be best to avoid rolling the dice on it. I have not seen his essays but I believe he has already started - hopefully they turn out well because he loves writing.
Anonymous
Post 10/04/2022 16:27     Subject: Help DS Decide: Duke ED or Harvard/Princeton REA
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Duke. Better chance there with ED and he loves it. Not sure what his national awards are (could be game changer depending on what they are) but sports that aren’t at recruitment level won’t be that helpful in admissions process.


Some of his national awards are generic (like AP Scholar) but some are quite unique and competitive - his written award winning essays and entered national (maybe even international, not entirely sure) economics competitions and done well, among other things. He is not at the level of being recruited for sports, certainly not by Duke, but he still puts a lot of time into them.


The time he spent on sports speaks to his commitment, leadership, and discipline - and his ability to earn top grades even with that time commitment. But it doesn’t add much to campus life given the colleges already take so many athletes, including through the recruitment process. It’s not as big of a plus as many parents think based on the huge level of commitment it required of their family.


I see. He is thinking of getting a letter of recommendation from the coach of the sport he is a captain of, if that makes any difference.


Has this coach also taught him?
Anonymous
Post 10/04/2022 16:26     Subject: Help DS Decide: Duke ED or Harvard/Princeton REA
Anonymous wrote:It is just me or are we going to see alot of bitter posts from these recent posters come April?


I will try not to be bitter if he does not get in, don't worry! We understand all of these schools are completely unpredictable, and many highly qualified students are applying alongside DS.
Anonymous
Post 10/04/2022 16:26     Subject: Help DS Decide: Duke ED or Harvard/Princeton REA
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Not sure if anyone else is making (or has already made) the same choice with their family with some combination of these schools. DS is the oldest and going to be the first one we send off to college, so it's our first crack at the egg. DS is a great kid and has become more than we could have hoped for, and his current plan is to study economics/public policy to go alongside something more quantitative (perhaps statistics). I know it's more than likely he'll change his mind at least once in college, as often happens, so we're focusing more on his general likes and dislikes. His guidance counselor says DS would have a chance (of course no guarantees) at any school: for context he has a 1580 on his SAT, currently on track to be salutatorian of his class, captain of a varsity sport and playing another, spends his time volunteering generously, is very active in clubs at school, and has multiple national level awards. We have run financial aid estimates at his top choice schools and we feel comfortable with the cost, and we expect he'll be working in some capacity at least during the summers.

He likes Duke for many reasons: great academics, great school spirit, and a competitive club sports culture. We made a last-minute visit with him last month and he was in love with the campus and enjoyed the students he talked with very much. It overall seems like "the best" fit for him, which is why he is considering early decision there. We'd be more than happy to send him there as well, the alumni network seems very strong.

On the other hand, Harvard and Princeton were his longtime dream schools, and although Duke has caught up for him it is still a "newer" school for us, as he has mentally been preparing to try for Harvard or Princeton for a few years now.

We're unsure if he should be limiting himself to just one choice by doing early decision, or if he should keep his options more open. Another big factor is from what we've read, Duke early decision seems to provide an advantage for getting accepted, while Harvard and Princeton restrictive early action don't seem to help compared to regular decision. We would hate to see the difference between a Duke acceptance and rejection come down to whether he did early decision or not, and we know regular decision at Duke is incredibly competitive.

Any thoughts/similar experiences would be much appreciated!


If your son likes Duke the most, tell him to ED there; he won't regret it. This is anecdotal but a friend of mine had an incredibly bright son from the DMV get into multiple ivy league schools, Duke, and MIT. He chose Duke and right out of college made more than his father (or I for that matter) have ever made in yearly compensation. He's doing really well for himself, and he always came back with fun stories during breaks. Your son seems very bright as well and I'm sure he can achieve whatever he wants out of Duke while not sacrificing on the fun.


I see what you are saying, I don't think Duke would hinder his success in any way. I suppose it is more of a late entry for us so it will take some adjustment.


I think you may be overestimating his odds of getting into any of these schools. Duke isn’t by any means a sure thing, and the others are virtually impossible. People do get lucky! But most don’t l.
Anonymous
Post 10/04/2022 16:25     Subject: Help DS Decide: Duke ED or Harvard/Princeton REA
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Duke. Better chance there with ED and he loves it. Not sure what his national awards are (could be game changer depending on what they are) but sports that aren’t at recruitment level won’t be that helpful in admissions process.


Some of his national awards are generic (like AP Scholar) but some are quite unique and competitive - his written award winning essays and entered national (maybe even international, not entirely sure) economics competitions and done well, among other things. He is not at the level of being recruited for sports, certainly not by Duke, but he still puts a lot of time into them.


The time he spent on sports speaks to his commitment, leadership, and discipline - and his ability to earn top grades even with that time commitment. But it doesn’t add much to campus life given the colleges already take so many athletes, including through the recruitment process. It’s not as big of a plus as many parents think based on the huge level of commitment it required of their family.


I see. He is thinking of getting a letter of recommendation from the coach of the sport he is a captain of, if that makes any difference.
Anonymous
Post 10/04/2022 16:23     Subject: Help DS Decide: Duke ED or Harvard/Princeton REA
Anonymous wrote:Not sure if anyone else is making (or has already made) the same choice with their family with some combination of these schools. DS is the oldest and going to be the first one we send off to college, so it's our first crack at the egg. DS is a great kid and has become more than we could have hoped for, and his current plan is to study economics/public policy to go alongside something more quantitative (perhaps statistics). I know it's more than likely he'll change his mind at least once in college, as often happens, so we're focusing more on his general likes and dislikes. His guidance counselor says DS would have a chance (of course no guarantees) at any school: for context he has a 1580 on his SAT, currently on track to be salutatorian of his class, captain of a varsity sport and playing another, spends his time volunteering generously, is very active in clubs at school, and has multiple national level awards. We have run financial aid estimates at his top choice schools and we feel comfortable with the cost, and we expect he'll be working in some capacity at least during the summers.

He likes Duke for many reasons: great academics, great school spirit, and a competitive club sports culture. We made a last-minute visit with him last month and he was in love with the campus and enjoyed the students he talked with very much. It overall seems like "the best" fit for him, which is why he is considering early decision there. We'd be more than happy to send him there as well, the alumni network seems very strong.

On the other hand, Harvard and Princeton were his longtime dream schools, and although Duke has caught up for him it is still a "newer" school for us, as he has mentally been preparing to try for Harvard or Princeton for a few years now.

We're unsure if he should be limiting himself to just one choice by doing early decision, or if he should keep his options more open. Another big factor is from what we've read, Duke early decision seems to provide an advantage for getting accepted, while Harvard and Princeton restrictive early action don't seem to help compared to regular decision. We would hate to see the difference between a Duke acceptance and rejection come down to whether he did early decision or not, and we know regular decision at Duke is incredibly competitive.

Any thoughts/similar experiences would be much appreciated!


I think you are underestimating how difficult getting into Duke ED will be. You have to remember that out of all the ED schools, Duke is probably the biggest one for athletics. So out of their ~850 ED acceptances every year, generally at least 100 will be for recruited athletes. Then another 100 will be for legacies with strong ties to Duke. Then another 50 will be for super rich/influential people who want their children to have the Duke brand, who Duke will accept in exchange for the connections and future fundraising they will get from the parents. Then another 100 will be for North Carolina kids that Duke will need to accept because interestingly they have chosen to keep a certain percentage of each class as North Carolina natives (although these kids nowadays are probably extremely qualified as well). There will be another 50 spots going to genius kids who just happen to have Duke as their first choice who Duke cannot say no to. Yet another 50 spots will go to niche interests needed to fill in the school (such as instrument players where Duke has holes in their marching band, theater kids who will run school productions, kids who have done specific research that aligns with Duke, etc.). Then, you have another 100 spots going to URM/low income kids. So, that leaves ~300 spots for regular white/asian kids from good public and private schools battling it out for a spot at Duke. It's not going to be easy even with your son's 1580 and 4.0 GPA, but he definitely will have a good chance if they like his essays and recommendations.
Anonymous
Post 10/04/2022 16:21     Subject: Help DS Decide: Duke ED or Harvard/Princeton REA
The odds are really slim regardless of how great he is. If he applies early to Harvard and doesn’t get in, he’ll have missed having a better chance with Duke.
Anonymous
Post 10/04/2022 16:16     Subject: Re:Help DS Decide: Duke ED or Harvard/Princeton REA
OP: If not admitted early, to which other schools would your son apply ?

Decent boost for leadership as captain of an athletic team regardless of whether or not he continues playing that sport.

If your son has an above average chance for Harvard or Princeton and he likes each school, then go for it unless he loves Duke and just likes the other two.

I assure you that some recent Duke grads did not place well in the job market.
Anonymous
Post 10/04/2022 16:05     Subject: Help DS Decide: Duke ED or Harvard/Princeton REA
Anonymous wrote:Are you in the DMV? What school? The more specific you are the better advice folks can give. Since his first choice is Duke that is definitely where I would ED to.


OP - Do NOT name the school.
Anonymous
Post 10/04/2022 16:04     Subject: Help DS Decide: Duke ED or Harvard/Princeton REA
Are you in the DMV? What school? The more specific you are the better advice folks can give. Since his first choice is Duke that is definitely where I would ED to.