Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:At my child's school, the first grade classes (6 and 7 year olds) are a mess! This is the grade that includes all the kids whose parents didn't want them in virtual kindergarten and weren't able to do private the virtual year, so on top of the huge class sizes, there's a broad range of ages in this class - from the kids who are still 5 with birthdays next week to those that turned 7 halfway through Kindergarten last year. Our principal refused to hire an extra teacher despite the fact that last year's class sizes were also huge (but kindergarteners had an IA to help). It's awful, it's out of control, and there is no support for the poor first grade teachers. Is there anything we can do to petition the principal to hire a new teacher for next year? 30 kids in a first grade class is TOO MANY.

DS's first grade class had 32 kids in it 4 years ago. This is not a new thing.

And your kid is fine now, right?

OP: what do you think will happen if your kid goes thru the year with a class this size?

It's very difficult for the teacher to manage the class. I've heard of at least two instances where she's had to call for backup. She's doing the best she can, but her class was 20 kids last year.

THIS is the issue. The number of kids isn't, on its own, bad. I had 30 in my elementary classes back in the 80s. BUT these days, kids with significant issues are mainstreamed which is really hard when the classes are huge. So 26 kids without issues plus 4 with issues and aides following them around and a classroom designed for 24 kids suddenly has 30 kids, and 5 adults. It is too many people--literally our kids had to climb around each other to get their seats. Now, toss in age appropriate antics and teachers who have no authority to punish (Can't send to principal, cant put outside in hall, can't deny recess--literally no arrows in the discipline quiver) and the teachers are just overwhelmed. And so NO learning happens. My son practically had PTSD from his first grade at Wolftrap it was such a crap show. And that Principal had authority to hire a teacher to have smaller classes and she "decided" not to. She did it year after year and she was recently promoted. That is FCPS.

🙄 you throw this in and your whole argument becomes ineffective

It wasn't an argument. It was my experience.

I think your response is telling. This entire issue isn't about whose arguments are right or wrong. Its about whether FCPS, with its enormous resources, is doing the best it can for the people it is intended to serve and that is the students. In my opinion, it is not. My personal experience was that the teachers were being set up for failure by decisions made above them by people who had actual authority and money to make the teacher's jobs more pleasant and the student's academic environment more conducive to learning. That is my actual experience and yours may be entirely different and that is fine. But I am not wrong. And I am not exaggerating. When the School's solution was to tell my son (without my permission) to have a play date with a kid who was relentlessly touching him (unaddressed impulse control issues) or writing on his paper or destroying his artwork, and my son had to come home in tears and say he didn't want to play with that kid, and when my son still talks about that years later, I think PTSD isn't too much of a stretch. But go ahead and pick lint. It doesn't help your position. FCPS has some very serious and systemic issues and that is what this entire forum makes plain.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:At my child's school, the first grade classes (6 and 7 year olds) are a mess! This is the grade that includes all the kids whose parents didn't want them in virtual kindergarten and weren't able to do private the virtual year, so on top of the huge class sizes, there's a broad range of ages in this class - from the kids who are still 5 with birthdays next week to those that turned 7 halfway through Kindergarten last year. Our principal refused to hire an extra teacher despite the fact that last year's class sizes were also huge (but kindergarteners had an IA to help). It's awful, it's out of control, and there is no support for the poor first grade teachers. Is there anything we can do to petition the principal to hire a new teacher for next year? 30 kids in a first grade class is TOO MANY.

DS's first grade class had 32 kids in it 4 years ago. This is not a new thing.

And your kid is fine now, right?

OP: what do you think will happen if your kid goes thru the year with a class this size?

It's very difficult for the teacher to manage the class. I've heard of at least two instances where she's had to call for backup. She's doing the best she can, but her class was 20 kids last year.

THIS is the issue. The number of kids isn't, on its own, bad. I had 30 in my elementary classes back in the 80s. BUT these days, kids with significant issues are mainstreamed which is really hard when the classes are huge. So 26 kids without issues plus 4 with issues and aides following them around and a classroom designed for 24 kids suddenly has 30 kids, and 5 adults. It is too many people--literally our kids had to climb around each other to get their seats. Now, toss in age appropriate antics and teachers who have no authority to punish (Can't send to principal, cant put outside in hall, can't deny recess--literally no arrows in the discipline quiver) and the teachers are just overwhelmed. And so NO learning happens. My son practically had PTSD from his first grade at Wolftrap it was such a crap show. And that Principal had authority to hire a teacher to have smaller classes and she "decided" not to. She did it year after year and she was recently promoted. That is FCPS.

🙄 you throw this in and your whole argument becomes ineffective

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DC’s 1st grade class had 24 students, with 1 homeroom teacher plus 4 TAs because there were 3 “difficult” kids (not special need kids, I think special need kids would behave much better) in the class. One cries and screams often, one kicks and never listen, and one run away from classroom again and again. I had once saw one kid had a meltdown and needed 3 teachers to assist but still didn’t help. I would feel much relieved if there’s only 1 teacher at DC’s class.

You're ignorant. You know nothing about those three kids or special needs.

You could be right, so I said nothing to school, teachers were all great so I had no complain, but that’s the only 1st grade class equipped with 4 TAs ( the rest all had 1 homeroom teacher only), and I saw what happened when I went volunteer at class,, and from what DC told me many times. And this year DC’s at the same class with these kids so they have total 5 teachers at their class again. What can I say? I only wish DC can go to a class next year where she no longer needs to deal with any of these.

That’s why so many want to go to AAP.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That is insane. Why doesn’t FCPS reduce class sizes?

Because parents refuse to go through the boundary process to readjust populations. An adjustment is desperately needed to balance numbers. The full spectrum is Chantilly at over 2900 and Lewis at under 1700 students. It's a significant difference in range at many schools across the county. Parents want both a very high-SES school and small class size, which is a ridiculous demand for a public school system.

LOL, it's not parents, it's the school board.

It's BOTH and you know it.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:At my child's school, the first grade classes (6 and 7 year olds) are a mess! This is the grade that includes all the kids whose parents didn't want them in virtual kindergarten and weren't able to do private the virtual year, so on top of the huge class sizes, there's a broad range of ages in this class - from the kids who are still 5 with birthdays next week to those that turned 7 halfway through Kindergarten last year. Our principal refused to hire an extra teacher despite the fact that last year's class sizes were also huge (but kindergarteners had an IA to help). It's awful, it's out of control, and there is no support for the poor first grade teachers. Is there anything we can do to petition the principal to hire a new teacher for next year? 30 kids in a first grade class is TOO MANY.

just wait until there are 34 in 4th.

+1 there are 33 kids in my kid’s 4th grade class this year. It is ridiculous.

And elsewhere in the county the class sizes are much smaller.

If you don’t like it vote out the School Board that pays no attention to operations next year.

The School Board is not supposed to do operations! Much of the mess that happened during Covid was caused by them inserting themselves into operations. That is not in the scope of their role, other than oversight.

This is not a Covid issue, come on. It's a school overcrowding issue. My kid had approx. 30-33 kids when in first, some of them non-native speakers, kids with all sorts of issues, no aids. We were literally crossing our fingers for more kids so they'd break up the class when they crossed the threshold for needing a new class - which eventually happened.

This is only going to get worse with all the townhome and high density building goin on in FFX Co., w/o the requisite changes in the school's capacities (not to mention the roads). It's going to be a f'ing nightmare and the Board of Supervisors, and anyone else involved in allowing it, should be utterly ashamed of themselves.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:At my child's school, the first grade classes (6 and 7 year olds) are a mess! This is the grade that includes all the kids whose parents didn't want them in virtual kindergarten and weren't able to do private the virtual year, so on top of the huge class sizes, there's a broad range of ages in this class - from the kids who are still 5 with birthdays next week to those that turned 7 halfway through Kindergarten last year. Our principal refused to hire an extra teacher despite the fact that last year's class sizes were also huge (but kindergarteners had an IA to help). It's awful, it's out of control, and there is no support for the poor first grade teachers. Is there anything we can do to petition the principal to hire a new teacher for next year? 30 kids in a first grade class is TOO MANY.

DS's first grade class had 32 kids in it 4 years ago. This is not a new thing.

And your kid is fine now, right?

OP: what do you think will happen if your kid goes thru the year with a class this size?

It's very difficult for the teacher to manage the class. I've heard of at least two instances where she's had to call for backup. She's doing the best she can, but her class was 20 kids last year.

THIS is the issue. The number of kids isn't, on its own, bad. I had 30 in my elementary classes back in the 80s. BUT these days, kids with significant issues are mainstreamed which is really hard when the classes are huge. So 26 kids without issues plus 4 with issues and aides following them around and a classroom designed for 24 kids suddenly has 30 kids, and 5 adults. It is too many people--literally our kids had to climb around each other to get their seats. Now, toss in age appropriate antics and teachers who have no authority to punish (Can't send to principal, cant put outside in hall, can't deny recess--literally no arrows in the discipline quiver) and the teachers are just overwhelmed. And so NO learning happens. My son practically had PTSD from his first grade at Wolftrap it was such a crap show. And that Principal had authority to hire a teacher to have smaller classes and she "decided" not to. She did it year after year and she was recently promoted. That is FCPS.

Its not a new thing and the School Board knows it and doesn't care. We left and went to private. FCPS used to be so good but it is really a case study in mismanagement these days. Focus is on everything but the kids and it shows.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That is insane. Why doesn’t FCPS reduce class sizes?

Because parents refuse to go through the boundary process to readjust populations. An adjustment is desperately needed to balance numbers. The full spectrum is Chantilly at over 2900 and Lewis at under 1700 students. It's a significant difference in range at many schools across the county. Parents want both a very high-SES school and small class size, which is a ridiculous demand for a public school system.

LOL, it's not parents, it's the school board.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:At my child's school, the first grade classes (6 and 7 year olds) are a mess! This is the grade that includes all the kids whose parents didn't want them in virtual kindergarten and weren't able to do private the virtual year, so on top of the huge class sizes, there's a broad range of ages in this class - from the kids who are still 5 with birthdays next week to those that turned 7 halfway through Kindergarten last year. Our principal refused to hire an extra teacher despite the fact that last year's class sizes were also huge (but kindergarteners had an IA to help). It's awful, it's out of control, and there is no support for the poor first grade teachers. Is there anything we can do to petition the principal to hire a new teacher for next year? 30 kids in a first grade class is TOO MANY.

DS's first grade class had 32 kids in it 4 years ago. This is not a new thing.

And your kid is fine now, right?

OP: what do you think will happen if your kid goes thru the year with a class this size?

It's very difficult for the teacher to manage the class. I've heard of at least two instances where she's had to call for backup. She's doing the best she can, but her class was 20 kids last year.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:At my child's school, the first grade classes (6 and 7 year olds) are a mess! This is the grade that includes all the kids whose parents didn't want them in virtual kindergarten and weren't able to do private the virtual year, so on top of the huge class sizes, there's a broad range of ages in this class - from the kids who are still 5 with birthdays next week to those that turned 7 halfway through Kindergarten last year. Our principal refused to hire an extra teacher despite the fact that last year's class sizes were also huge (but kindergarteners had an IA to help). It's awful, it's out of control, and there is no support for the poor first grade teachers. Is there anything we can do to petition the principal to hire a new teacher for next year? 30 kids in a first grade class is TOO MANY.

just wait until there are 34 in 4th.

OP again - I'm okay with older kids having huge classes (and actually our 4th grade classes are really small this year). But it's hard for one teacher to manage 30 6 and 7 year olds. Last year there was an IA!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DC’s 1st grade class had 24 students, with 1 homeroom teacher plus 4 TAs because there were 3 “difficult” kids (not special need kids, I think special need kids would behave much better) in the class. One cries and screams often, one kicks and never listen, and one run away from classroom again and again. I had once saw one kid had a meltdown and needed 3 teachers to assist but still didn’t help. I would feel much relieved if there’s only 1 teacher at DC’s class.

You're ignorant. You know nothing about those three kids or special needs.

You could be right, so I said nothing to school, teachers were all great so I had no complain, but that’s the only 1st grade class equipped with 4 TAs ( the rest all had 1 homeroom teacher only), and I saw what happened when I went volunteer at class,, and from what DC told me many times. And this year DC’s at the same class with these kids so they have total 5 teachers at their class again. What can I say? I only wish DC can go to a class next year where she no longer needs to deal with any of these.

Anonymous wrote:DC’s 1st grade class had 24 students, with 1 homeroom teacher plus 4 TAs because there were 3 “difficult” kids (not special need kids, I think special need kids would behave much better) in the class. One cries and screams often, one kicks and never listen, and one run away from classroom again and again. I had once saw one kid had a meltdown and needed 3 teachers to assist but still didn’t help. I would feel much relieved if there’s only 1 teacher at DC’s class.

You're ignorant. You know nothing about those three kids or special needs.

DC’s 1st grade class had 24 students, with 1 homeroom teacher plus 4 TAs because there were 3 “difficult” kids (not special need kids, I think special need kids would behave much better) in the class. One cries and screams often, one kicks and never listen, and one run away from classroom again and again. I had once saw one kid had a meltdown and needed 3 teachers to assist but still didn’t help. I would feel much relieved if there’s only 1 teacher at DC’s class.

Anonymous wrote:This is simply the new reality in FCPS. Everyone needs to reduce their expectations as schools recover from the pandemic.

Go private or hire a tutor if you do not have the patience.

It isn't new. It is normal for decades.

I suggest people look at the budget and look for things that can be cut to fund more teaching positions and increase teacher salaries.