Anonymous
09/10/2022 11:33
Subject: is test optional really only for low income or diversity applicants?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Test blind is so much better than test optional. It's fair to everyone.
Except the kids with high gpas and test scores. The fewer data points, the more arbitrary the decision making, especially in the age of Covid inflated grades.
It’s not arbitrary. People can claim grades are inflated but high schools can send a lot of information about their student population that provide additional context to GPAs. Schools can’t get that with test scores, and they know that. They don’t know if the high score is a result of a one time test or hours of practice with a private tutor and multiple rounds of testing.
You do know that grades also reflect a family's resources and wealth, right? Rich families hire private tutors to help their kids with school courses and walk them through projects and homework. We'll educated parents can do this as well (even do the projects for their kids, in addition to take-home tests) whereas this is not a realistic option for a lot of working class families.
Anonymous
09/10/2022 11:29
Subject: Re:is test optional really only for low income or diversity applicants?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:This is what Grinnell says about this, just to use one example of a competitive school that I’m familiar with. I don’t think it’s too hard to read between the lines.
If you think your scores are an accurate representation of your ability, then you should feel free to submit them. If you feel they are not, then don’t submit them.
If you get the score you hoped for, and especially if it’s above average for Grinnell, submitting the score may help you in the admission process.
Keep in mind that we consider your test score in context. Even if your score is not above average for Grinnell, but it is for your high school or neighborhood, your score may help you in the admission process.
A high SAT or ACT score can offset a low GPA. If you don’t submit a score, we have less information about your academic performance. If you have a low GPA but do well on the SAT or ACT, your test score can be an important indicator of your potential to succeed in college-level classes.
The way I read the Grinnell statement, (1) if you don’t submit test scores as a non-URM in a good high school, Grinnell will assume you didn’t score consistent with with grades or above Grinnell’s average and (2) if you’re an URM at a low performing school but your own scores are good for that school, submit them even if they’re not great for Grinnell because Grinnell will take them in context and they could help you.
In other words, if you’re not an URM and you attend a good high school, don’t submit test scores at your peril.
This sounds right. Drop the mic.
Anonymous
09/10/2022 11:27
Subject: Re:is test optional really only for low income or diversity applicants?
Anonymous wrote:I’m curious as to what the collective here thinks is happening at TO admissions offices. We applied to 7 schools last year and all were TO. All of these schools said something to this effect: you may submit test scores but they will not be considered during admissions evaluation.
I take this as meaning the admissions committee (for lack of a better term) does not see any scores. I wonder if the committee knows whether or not scores were submitted at all.
If the schools are TO, then they do look at the test scores. If they didn't, they would call themselves test blind. Also, the Common Data Set for each school will expressly state what they do and do not consider for admissions purposes.
Anonymous
09/10/2022 11:20
Subject: is test optional really only for low income or diversity applicants?
I kind of see it like pleading the fifth. You do test optional if you do not want to self incriminate/ruin your chances. If you’re a strong candidate, you send your scores.
Anonymous
09/10/2022 11:12
Subject: Re:is test optional really only for low income or diversity applicants?
I’m curious as to what the collective here thinks is happening at TO admissions offices. We applied to 7 schools last year and all were TO. All of these schools said something to this effect: you may submit test scores but they will not be considered during admissions evaluation.
I take this as meaning the admissions committee (for lack of a better term) does not see any scores. I wonder if the committee knows whether or not scores were submitted at all.
I take this as meaning the admissions committee (for lack of a better term) does not see any scores. I wonder if the committee knows whether or not scores were submitted at all.
Anonymous
09/10/2022 10:44
Subject: is test optional really only for low income or diversity applicants?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Test blind is so much better than test optional. It's fair to everyone.
Except the kids with high gpas and test scores. The fewer data points, the more arbitrary the decision making, especially in the age of Covid inflated grades.
It’s not arbitrary. People can claim grades are inflated but high schools can send a lot of information about their student population that provide additional context to GPAs. Schools can’t get that with test scores, and they know that. They don’t know if the high score is a result of a one time test or hours of practice with a private tutor and multiple rounds of testing.
PP here - to add further context. Is it really preferable to have a kid who uses their time (and parent’s money) prepping for a test, or spends those hours volunteering, working on a club, taking on the responsibility of a full time job, etc. Which one really produces the better student?
Anonymous
09/10/2022 10:41
Subject: is test optional really only for low income or diversity applicants?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Test blind is so much better than test optional. It's fair to everyone.
Except the kids with high gpas and test scores. The fewer data points, the more arbitrary the decision making, especially in the age of Covid inflated grades.
It’s not arbitrary. People can claim grades are inflated but high schools can send a lot of information about their student population that provide additional context to GPAs. Schools can’t get that with test scores, and they know that. They don’t know if the high score is a result of a one time test or hours of practice with a private tutor and multiple rounds of testing.
Anonymous
09/10/2022 09:10
Subject: is test optional really only for low income or diversity applicants?
Anonymous wrote:Test blind is so much better than test optional. It's fair to everyone.
Except the kids with high gpas and test scores. The fewer data points, the more arbitrary the decision making, especially in the age of Covid inflated grades.
Anonymous
09/10/2022 09:05
Subject: is test optional really only for low income or diversity applicants?
Test blind is so much better than test optional. It's fair to everyone.
Anonymous
09/10/2022 09:02
Subject: Re:is test optional really only for low income or diversity applicants?
Anonymous wrote:i would be careful following college vine guidance PP - given the likely direction of the pending affirmative action case currently at SCOTUS level most elite colleges already taking action to avoid scrutiny on any biases going forward - the pendulum may wind up swinging waaay to far the other in the other direction unfortunately
He's not applying to any elite schools. All of the schools have acceptance rates around 70%.
Anonymous
09/10/2022 08:52
Subject: Re:is test optional really only for low income or diversity applicants?
i would be careful following college vine guidance PP - given the likely direction of the pending affirmative action case currently at SCOTUS level most elite colleges already taking action to avoid scrutiny on any biases going forward - the pendulum may wind up swinging waaay to far the other in the other direction unfortunately
Anonymous
09/10/2022 08:44
Subject: Re:is test optional really only for low income or diversity applicants?
My son's test score is a pretty accurate representation of him but it's lower than the 25th percentile for most of the schools he is applying to. I assume he shouldn't send them because the schools don't want his test scores to bring theirs down if the accept him. This is the way I look at it. He is an URM so CollegeVine seems to think that he can have lower scores and that is acceptable to colleges for URMs. Sigh. I almost think test optional makes it more complicated.
Anonymous
09/10/2022 08:36
Subject: is test optional really only for low income or diversity applicants?
Anonymous wrote:For schools that now have averages that are very high due to TO policies, the schools can’t assume you have bad scores if you don’t submit. The TO applicant could have an 1190 but he could also have a 1430 and the 75% is a 1490 so he didn’t submit.
That's interesting. That maybe it would hurt you less not to submit scores the higher the school's averages are.
So if anything, the higher and higher averages might be helpful!
Annnnnd the system is completely broken
Anonymous
09/09/2022 23:47
Subject: is test optional really only for low income or diversity applicants?
Anonymous wrote:My kid’s test prep tutor (who also does college counseling) says test optional is real for everyone. As others have said, if you don’t submit test scores, everything else becomes more important.
This is what we were told as well. If it’s two kids with similar everything, but one submits high test scores, the school is likely to take the kid with the high test scores. If the kid without the test scores has a much better gpa or superlative extracurriculars, they’ll be admitted. It basically puts more emphasis on your gpa and extracurriculars, so those better be very strong.
Anonymous
09/09/2022 23:05
Subject: Re:is test optional really only for low income or diversity applicants?
Anonymous wrote:This is what Grinnell says about this, just to use one example of a competitive school that I’m familiar with. I don’t think it’s too hard to read between the lines.
If you think your scores are an accurate representation of your ability, then you should feel free to submit them. If you feel they are not, then don’t submit them.
If you get the score you hoped for, and especially if it’s above average for Grinnell, submitting the score may help you in the admission process.
Keep in mind that we consider your test score in context. Even if your score is not above average for Grinnell, but it is for your high school or neighborhood, your score may help you in the admission process.
A high SAT or ACT score can offset a low GPA. If you don’t submit a score, we have less information about your academic performance. If you have a low GPA but do well on the SAT or ACT, your test score can be an important indicator of your potential to succeed in college-level classes.
This sounds right. Drop the mic.