Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Mine saw little diversity there. Very white/Asian.

Well, that underscores the difference between impressions and facts. HYP Penn and Dartmouth each have between 60 and 65% "white/Asian" student bodies. As do other highly regarded schools like NW, Duke, Emory, and Williams. etc. It's also worth noting that many schools that are routinely talked up here on this site have even higher white/Asian percentages -- UMD/CP, Haverford, Hamilton, Tufts, Bowdoin and Case Western (all 66-70% white/Asian), UVA, Colby, UNC/Chapel Hill, Michigan/Ann Arbor, Wisconsin/Madison (all 70-80% white/Asian), and Pitt and UVM (both over 80% white/Asian).

Look, if your kid wants a school with fewer whites and Asians, or on a visit to Dartmouth saw a disproportionate sampling of white/Asian students and drew (anecdotal) conclusions and/or wrote it off, that's their call, but it doesn't change the facts.

The observations from our extensive visit were confirmed by the students of color (black/brown) with whom my daughter met. What is the cite for that stat? It was highly inaccurate by our experience and the students ' observations. As students of color, would they not be aware? Or, would you dismiss this too, along with our observations? It may not fit your narrative but is no less valid.

No need to be snotty.

Anonymous wrote:

The observations from our extensive visit were confirmed by the students of color (black/brown) with whom my daughter met. What is the cite for that stat? It was highly inaccurate by our experience and the students ' observations. As students of color, would they not be aware? Or, would you dismiss this too, along with our observations? It may not fit your narrative but is no less valid.

No need to be snotty.

Don't be rude. There's nothing "snotty" about pointing out that the impression you reported from a single visit to Dartmouth isn't born out by the data that's reported by all colleges and universities through the Common Data Set and then disseminated by US News and other publications and sites that draw on that data. I refrained from calling names or using derogatory adjectives in my PP -- you should too.

So you believe the numbers are inaccurate because your impressions were different. But to assert that you have to assume that colleges like Dartmouth are submitting (and also publishing on their own website) false data about demographic data they know will be closely scrutinized - which isn't an accusation you should make unless you have something substantive to back it up (and assuming youre not a conspiracy theorist). The stats for Dartmouth's freshman class last year were: 13% foreign citizen, and of the remaining 87%, 44% (ie a slight majority) are students of color and 43% are white. Don't believe that if you don't want to, but other readers here should know that you're sharing impressions not facts. These aren't competing "narratives." One is based on data, and one is based on impression.

Why would the observations from your visit be "confirmed" (whatever that means -- students of color told you Dartmouth had a higher whites/Asians share of the student body than NECSAC colleges?) by the students of color you met at Dartmouth? I can think of several reasons. Because many of those students come from communities where the black/brown share of the population is higher than the national average, not lower as it is at Dartmouth (and at most Ivy and frankly many top colleges), and that adjustment exacerbates the feeling of isolation and being in a minority. Because Dartmouth is in the smallest and whitest and most rural town of all the Ivies, in one of the least Black states in the country, and so the entire environment (not just the college) feels whiter, with virtually all the Black and Brown people in Hanover being associated with the college, and Black and brown students little sense of connection with a broader local community. Dartmouth is also the smallest of the Ivy League schools, so even at roughly comparable percentages of white/Asian/Black/brown students to other Ivies, it's going to have fewer of them, and I'd imagine the fact that there are fewer Black and brown students at Dartmouth - in numbers - is something those students probably care about more than the percentages (there are also fewer white/Asian students at Dartmouth that at other Ivies, but that's of limited relevance to the Black and brown students). Finally, it's also possible that you just happened to meet some students who happened on that particular day to be especially dissatisfied with racial representation at Dartmouth, or otherwise displeased with the school -- just as many other DCUM commenters have met unhappy or otherwise displeased students while touring other colleges. A lot of the observations ("most of the students here come from 1%er families," "half the student body belongs to a fraternity or sorority," "there's snow on the ground through May," "about of a third of the students take more than four years to graduate") have to put in the appropriate context as opinion when they conflict with documented facts.

As I said, no one's saying your kid shouldn't be select the school that feels like the best fit. Or that you shouldn't share your impressions of Dartmouth. But you can't -- or shouldn't -- get offended when people counter with facts.

The observations from our extensive visit were confirmed by the students of color (black/brown) with whom my daughter met. What is the cite for that stat? It was highly inaccurate by our experience and the students ' observations. As students of color, would they not be aware? Or, would you dismiss this too, along with our observations? It may not fit your narrative but is no less valid.

No need to be snotty.

Anonymous wrote:

Mine saw little diversity there. Very white/Asian.

Well, that underscores the difference between impressions and facts. HYP Penn and Dartmouth each have between 60 and 65% "white/Asian" student bodies. As do other highly regarded schools like NW, Duke, Emory, and Williams. etc. It's also worth noting that many schools that are routinely talked up here on this site have even higher white/Asian percentages -- UMD/CP, Haverford, Hamilton, Tufts, Bowdoin and Case Western (all 66-70% white/Asian), UVA, Colby, UNC/Chapel Hill, Michigan/Ann Arbor, Wisconsin/Madison (all 70-80% white/Asian), and Pitt and UVM (both over 80% white/Asian).

Look, if your kid wants a school with fewer whites and Asians, or on a visit to Dartmouth saw a disproportionate sampling of white/Asian students and drew (anecdotal) conclusions and/or wrote it off, that's their call, but it doesn't change the facts.

Mine saw little diversity there. Very white/Asian.