Oh man to, not too and cross a line so many typos sorry!

Wanted to add something I learned in therapy....enmeshment and estrangement are way more closely entwined than one would think. It's one thing to help and be in contact often. The problem is when you cross a like and it's too the point of resentment, rescuing, etc. That's why you see these families where you think "but they were soooooo close"and people have completely stoped all communication. There wasn't proper communication in the first place and there weren't healthy boundaries. So, if you want to be a close knit family that lasts you need the boundaries. You need to know your limits. You need healthy respectful communication.

Anonymous wrote:OP here. I'm in that sandiwch period where I started seeing the therapist because I was just exhausted by the demands of my aging parents and adult children. We have postponed an anniversary trip several times because someone always needed something. Last time, it was our daughter needing help moving the weekend we planned to go away. (We were going to combine a vacation with a work trip for me and I ended up going on my own while he helped her move.)

I thought I needed help mostly with how to help my parents without feeling all of the negative emotions, but she is suggesting that I need to prioritize myself more both from the parents and from the kids.

I do think the enmeshment may be hurting our kids too , like we shield the kids from the negative consequences of their bad decisions. I am worried that two of the children are not in relationships and wonder if they will ever get married.

We also found out that one child is gay and I'm from a really strict Evangelical background and am struggling with that. I think the therapist is concerned here that I seem to be deriving too much of my self worth (at this stage) from having a family that appears perfect to outsiders. She said something about 'kids being a reflection of yourself' that really hit home. I think maybe I'm keeping them from figuring out who they really are.

Ohhhh this helps and It's great you are so honest. Yes, you help if you enjoy it, but you don't give up a trip with your spouse to do so. It sounds like you don't have boundaries. It's good that you are exploring your feelings about the fact you have a child who is gay. You are right that you need to give them space to figure out who they are therapy is a great place to come to terms with having a child who is gay so you can be a support and not a stressor.

My mother shields my sister from negative consequences and it has made her a trainwreck. Now that mom is aging and can't rescue she expects me to do it and it has causes a rift because I believe my sister is capable of dealing with her own choices. Very good you are working on this and know it's a problem.

Anonymous wrote:OP, why do you think your therapist calls it codependency? Are we missing some other problematic details?

It is kind of crazy that people do not think her description explains it. The kids rely too much on their parents for life decisions. The parents rely too much on their kids for social/emotional connection. Talking multiple times a day to adult children is extreme.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've had friends who were like this with their families. I really envied them. Your therapist sounds sterile and cold.

Agreed.

In college? Or in their mid-twenties or 30s? (Or even 40s, god forbid. Though I know a few of those, and they’re miserable. Truly unhappy with their lives but completely attached to their parents to provide short-term help that’s never actually effective in the long run.)

My ILs are like this with my SIL (they used to be like this with DH but he was smart enough to take a step back once he started grad school), and I think their enmeshment with her is one of the biggest reasons she's still single at 40. She relies on them for a lot, she spends most of her time with her, and that's really unusual in the LBGTQIA+ community, so I think it's a big turn off.

Anonymous wrote:I think op knows she should step back a little....but just a little You want your kids to be capable adults who are independent and proud, but also still love their parents and enjoy talking/spending time with them. I was at a football game last night and saw a family who has grandma with them all the time--she helps with the little ones, goes to the sports games. I see her all the time. She looks helpful, but not invasive. I don't know their home story by any means, but what a gift to those kids to spend so much time with grandma. If she can help with the childcare, helping with car purchase isn't the worst thing. Now if they can't make any decisions without consulting you or having you there, then yes take a step back. And for goodness sake go on your vacation! Are you trying to avoid it?

When our kids are little, our job is to HELP them.

When our kids are adults, the job changes. A LOT.

For adult children, our job is to be safety net in case of disaster. And it’s to be a supportive, encouraging (or sympathetic/empathetic) presence by their side as they live their lives. It’s about BEING a presence on the sidelines if they want us. Not DOING for them.

There are a million ways to stay connected and close with adult kids. But your role has to change. You need to DO less for them, which includes advice-giving.

In the meantime, OP, plan more fun trips and activities with your DH and also for yourself.

Ask yourself, what do YOU like to do that you haven’t done because of raising kids. What have you always been a little curious to try but haven’t yet? And then start building in those things.

The happier, more stimulated, and BUSIER you are with your own life, the less tempted you will be to engage co-dependently with your adult kids.

I think op knows she should step back a little....but just a little You want your kids to be capable adults who are independent and proud, but also still love their parents and enjoy talking/spending time with them. I was at a football game last night and saw a family who has grandma with them all the time--she helps with the little ones, goes to the sports games. I see her all the time. She looks helpful, but not invasive. I don't know their home story by any means, but what a gift to those kids to spend so much time with grandma. If she can help with the childcare, helping with car purchase isn't the worst thing. Now if they can't make any decisions without consulting you or having you there, then yes take a step back. And for goodness sake go on your vacation! Are you trying to avoid it?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've had friends who were like this with their families. I really envied them. Your therapist sounds sterile and cold.

Agreed.

I’ve known several friends and family members who’ve been to therapy and I’ve never heard *one* who wasn’t told by the therapist “you do too much for others and need to focus more on yourself.” Sounds like the predictable line they feed everyone.

That said, OP, don’t cancel any more vacations for your kids unless they’re hospitalized or arrested.

Anonymous wrote:I've had friends who were like this with their families. I really envied them. Your therapist sounds sterile and cold.

Agreed.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. I'm in that sandiwch period where I started seeing the therapist because I was just exhausted by the demands of my aging parents and adult children. We have postponed an anniversary trip several times because someone always needed something. Last time, it was our daughter needing help moving the weekend we planned to go away. (We were going to combine a vacation with a work trip for me and I ended up going on my own while he helped her move.)

I thought I needed help mostly with how to help my parents without feeling all of the negative emotions, but she is suggesting that I need to prioritize myself more both from the parents and from the kids.

I do think the enmeshment may be hurting our kids too , like we shield the kids from the negative consequences of their bad decisions. I am worried that two of the children are not in relationships and wonder if they will ever get married.

We also found out that one child is gay and I'm from a really strict Evangelical background and am struggling with that. I think the therapist is concerned here that I seem to be deriving too much of my self worth (at this stage) from having a family that appears perfect to outsiders. She said something about 'kids being a reflection of yourself' that really hit home. I think maybe I'm keeping them from figuring out who they really are.

Yeah, okay, I see the issues here.

1. You need to be able to tell your daughter you can't help her move; you have plans. You can help earlier or later or she can buy her friends pizza so they will help her. That's what I did in my early 20s -- begged and traded with friends to move -- because my parents were far away and it never would have occurred to me to ask them.

2. Their relationship status is their business and their problem (or not -- people can be happily single, you know). You are not at fault for it, nor should you consider it a reflection of yourself. That was lies madness.

3. It's good your working through your religious de-conditioning to accept your cay child! I know that can be rough but as an LGBTQ adult who didn't come out even to myself even though I had supportive parents, sometimes it's not about you. Sometimes it's just something the person in question is working through.

I think you're a great parent but I also think your therapist is probably right that you have some enmeshment issues and it's good you're starting to work on coping strategies. Wishing you all the best!

+1

I couldn’t have said it any better!!

And I’ll add another vote that this is “your time,” OP.

You raised your kids, and it sounds like it brought you a tremendous amount of joy and satisfaction. That’s awesome! And that feeling never goes away. You always get to savor it and feel proud of how you raised them those first 18-20 years!

But there’s no pride of accomplishment for continuing to “raise” adult kids. Because that responsibility of figuring out their priorities and values - and doing the planning and decision-making to live well, as they define it - is all THEIRS. You need to pass the baton. This is their life now. And you and your DH deserve to enjoy yours.

If you’re still orienting around them, focus on how you’re harming them by doing so much for them. They shouldn’t be calling you with their problems or complaints multiple times a day (or even multiple times a week). They should have friends (peers) for that. Young relationships are born and grow through the shared adversity of that first phase of independence. Challenges like moving, dealing with a crappy job or boss, relationship woes, figuring out big purchases like a new lease or car - my friends and I navigated that together and are bonded for life. But it never would have happened if we were instead calling our parents.

For adult children, parents should be a living, non-judgmental SAFETY NET. You’re always there to catch them in the event of a true emergency or disaster. And you’re absolutely their unconditional CHEERLEADER, too. But you shouldn’t be their first call for their work/life/financial/romantic problems. They need to work on being more resourceful, including building strong, mutually-supportive peer friendships, and also connections with each other. That’s what siblings are for!

Good luck, OP. May you and you DH enjoy each other as much as possible! Step back and your kids will discover they’re much stronger and more resourceful than they realized. (Seriously, if your DH didn’t drop everything to help your DD move, she would have figured out a plan B. No doubt she might have made mistakes and it might hint have gone as smoothly. But she would have learned A LOT from the experience! But dropping everything to help her, your DH actually deprived her of that growth opportunity. 😢)

You cancelled a vacation several times?

That alone is enough of an example. I can't imagine a world where my kids would think it would be appropriate for them to be the cause of me cancelling a vacation. They think about me, too!

I agree with your therapist. You are enablng and encouraging your kids to be incompetent so that they have to depend on you. Not good parenting.

Anonymous wrote:Speaking on the phone multiple times a day seems crazy intense to me. That's way too much. Helping them with big life things like buying a car is good, but the constant contact is a bit crazy

Yes this is what jumped out to me. Talking multiple times a day? Not healthy.

Anonymous wrote:Without knowing all your personal details, it seems to me that your therapist is correct.
You should be proud that your kids have launched. Now you should prioritize yourself and your husband.
Talking to your kids 3-4 times a week should be adequate. Let them sort out their own messes. Don’t always jump in to rescue them or give them money.
You are robbing them of the sense of achievement that comes with solving problems on your own.
I’m not saying that you should do a complete 180. Just step back a little.

Do you have friends? Focus on your own friends and hobbies so you have a stronger network than just your kids

This, OP. Having your adult kids feel a close, affectionate relationship with you is great. Having them rely on you is not. Young adults should be growing in their ability to rely on themselves.

Doing everyone for them robs them of their chances to develop self efficacy and true self-esteem. Would it be helpful to view things that way? Instead of, “I have to help my adult daughter move”, you could think, “This is a good chance for her to figure out this challenge on her own…she can invite friends or arrange a mover. I don’t want to rob her of the chance to be proud of herself when she does this on her own.”

Yes, they might grumble if they’re used to you fixing everything for them and making life easy for them in every way. But that is robbing them and keeping them feeble children who can’t function as adults when it comes to problem solving. Parenting is a gradual dance of teaching children to rely on themselves: physically, emotionally, and morally. You will be dead some day. You want them functional and self-confident, not dependent upon you for anything but affection, love, company, and wisdom.

It is wonderful that you found a partner who cares about this as much as you do, and that you have self-awareness and the desire to do better for yourself and for them. You are a good person. Focus now on loving and accepting your gay child and learning to value yourself rather than rely upon the approval of others.

Without knowing all your personal details, it seems to me that your therapist is correct.
You should be proud that your kids have launched. Now you should prioritize yourself and your husband.
Talking to your kids 3-4 times a week should be adequate. Let them sort out their own messes. Don’t always jump in to rescue them or give them money.
You are robbing them of the sense of achievement that comes with solving problems on your own.
I’m not saying that you should do a complete 180. Just step back a little.

Do you have friends? Focus on your own friends and hobbies so you have a stronger network than just your kids