Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You need therapy. I have close female friends some I've known since childhood and others I have met and kept along the way.

What has been key is the following:

mutual loyalty and respect
non competitiveness
genuine interest in each other's well being
common interests
neither party is needy

For a lot of women mutual loyalty and respect means you're friends with me first and no one else and you will hate anyone I hate without question. Also who isn't needy?
There is a lot of false appearances in the mom groups.

I think you're twisting the meaning of loyalty and respect. I mean not sniping to others about your friends and not laughing at them behind their backs, all of which is horrible behavior and not the stuff of friendships.

NP. The only friend I had to drop was somebody who was an emotional vampire. I know that she did not realize it but every conversation turned into what bad things were happening in her life, how upset she was, offended, or angry. I would hear all about crap that was happening at her job or with her family.. I very rarely heard good stuff. I felt like I was just a sounding board. After I got off the phone with her or meeting with her, I would feel exhausted. I finally sat her down and told her she needed a therapist because I was not it. She stopped calling me all together after that. And in turn I never reached back out to her because, while I felt sorry for her, I just could not do it anymore.

You don't need more than 5 true friends. Don't worry about quantity as much as quality. Also, friendships ebb and flow. Don't be too hard on yourself, OP!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You need therapy. I have close female friends some I've known since childhood and others I have met and kept along the way.

What has been key is the following:

mutual loyalty and respect
non competitiveness
genuine interest in each other's well being
common interests
neither party is needy

The neither party is needy thing is key.

It is definitely. I wrote that list. I have a young family and some medical issues. I cannot become 2nd mom to a new friend who suddenly needs to run everything past me and get my approval. I am sure some people would love to be able to do that, fulfill that empty space in someone's life I just don't have the energy, mental or physical.

Great list. And being non-competitive is important too.

To me this is the most important. I cannot believe how many women I've met who in the first or second meeting are trying to establish some pecking order through money, socioeconomic status, house size. I'm in the outer suburbs and over half of the women immediately find a way to insert this type of stuff in the conversation. I moved to a new neighborhood several years ago and the first woman to approach me as a friend told me about the expensive cars her family owns in her first or second breath. She invited me into her house and told me every single way her has was a grade above mine, literally bump out by bump out. This isn't particularly unusual where I live. The people I am talking about are not young, we're all at least in our 50s.

+1. There is a woman in my neighborhood who is insanely competitive. Whatever anyone else has, she must get - immediately! It’s all very unhealthy.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You have no chill, OP. Learn to love yourself, learn to be happy and content alone, without the need for anyone else to validate you. You crave something that you have to give to yourself first.

This is completely unrealistic advice. Most people are never alone, don't need to learn to be happy and content alone, without the need for anyone else to validate them. And yet most people have friends and families. You could spend your entire life trying to "learn to be happy and content alone" but what would be the point?

People aren't meant to be happy and content alone. That is a ridiculous goal.

Np. I disagree. Most people, if they have much going on in their lives, go through periods of not having friends around. Being too upset about it will make it harder to relate to people.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You need therapy. I have close female friends some I've known since childhood and others I have met and kept along the way.

What has been key is the following:

mutual loyalty and respect
non competitiveness
genuine interest in each other's well being
common interests
neither party is needy

The neither party is needy thing is key.

It is definitely. I wrote that list. I have a young family and some medical issues. I cannot become 2nd mom to a new friend who suddenly needs to run everything past me and get my approval. I am sure some people would love to be able to do that, fulfill that empty space in someone's life I just don't have the energy, mental or physical.

Great list. And being non-competitive is important too.

To me this is the most important. I cannot believe how many women I've met who in the first or second meeting are trying to establish some pecking order through money, socioeconomic status, house size. I'm in the outer suburbs and over half of the women immediately find a way to insert this type of stuff in the conversation. I moved to a new neighborhood several years ago and the first woman to approach me as a friend told me about the expensive cars her family owns in her first or second breath. She invited me into her house and told me every single way her has was a grade above mine, literally bump out by bump out. This isn't particularly unusual where I live. The people I am talking about are not young, we're all at least in our 50s.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are most of your friendships "situational"? I've had a very good friend that I've spent time with at least once a week - kids the same age, using the same playground, houses are nearby, so just wave and pop in with a cup of coffee when you see the other in the backyard. I really liked her and her husband and we've spent tons of time together as families, mostly spontaneous, though. But then I moved - same metro area but far enough that any outing now must be carefully coordinated and planned in advance. And that friendship fizzled because neither of us had a bandwidth for another friend that you have to dedicate half of your weekend to see. No one's fault, it just wasn't in the cards. Maybe at least some of your friendships are like that, they stay alive only as long as there is something else connecting you besides being two people who like each other.

I think this is the way friendships work in the burbs. A lot of your friends are made via connections one way or another through your kids and as the kids get older that changes. With one of my "friends" that I'd known for many years, once our kids weren't front and center we had nothing to talk about. I can usually have a good time with anyone and find subjects to converse about but saw this happen with a couple of people.

PP. It's not just the kids, it could be anything. When I moved, I also lost another friendship, a guy that I used to play music with. We lived nearby and played together regularly, he'd just grab his fiddle and bike over. We worked together well, but not well enough to warrant a 50 minutes drive one way.

Anonymous wrote:You need therapy. I have close female friends some I've known since childhood and others I have met and kept along the way.

What has been key is the following:

mutual loyalty and respect
non competitiveness
genuine interest in each other's well being
common interests
neither party is needy

For a lot of women mutual loyalty and respect means you're friends with me first and no one else and you will hate anyone I hate without question. Also who isn't needy?
There is a lot of false appearances in the mom groups.

Anonymous wrote:I had a good friend for a long, long time. We were the kind of friends who said, "HIS LOSS!!" when we broke up with someone. We were very young, obviously, but we needed that then. Eventually it became not enough to have that kind of friend. It isn't always their loss. Sometimes it's your loss, or even your fault, and a good friend is someone you can talk to about reality, not propped up BS that you want to hear to feel better.

That's why I dropped my good friend of many years -- I could no longer live in Bullshit World with her, and that's all we really had.

A few of the women I know from my neighborhood who are best friends have a kind of dependent pair/bond relationship and it isn't something to look up to. Know what people present isn't always so golden. Everything is very superficial but they talk a lot. About nothing. They cling to one another out of insecurity and the real fear of being alone makes them more likely to be attacked by the evil neighborhood queen bee. Op are your friends the type who might want to talk more or are you that way? I am kind of judgy about the women I know who talk multiple times a day on the phone. I think anyone who expects that or immediate text access is a bit too dependent. You must have some clue. I've known women who, once they get to know you, get comfortable criticizing and think you just have to take it as a friend. Do you change your personality/interests when you meet a new guy? I've drifted away from friends who had a boyfriend or spouse that I couldn't stand. Give us more info.

Anonymous wrote:OP here, thank you all so much for the thoughtful replies. I've read every response and there is some really helpful advice here.

Thank you!

I think you may need to meet higher quality people like from a book club or religious organization.