Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:According to gov scorecard, the average LAB-ABIDING middle class kid leaves Calvin University with $23,000 in student loans.

While CONVICTED CRIMINALS get a free bachelor's degree.

https://collegescorecard.ed.gov/school/?169080-Calvin-University

Pell Grants covers 60% of the program, so we know that the total cost per pupil for this program is around $11,500 or about 1/3 of the cost of tuition at Calvin. Calvin also provides financial aid for students of, on average, $23,000. Students are Calvin are getting a much more expensive (and valuable) program, with, on average, more being paid for them by other people (grants, aid, etc.) than the entire cost of the program for prisoners.

In other words, convicted felons are given 66% off tuition while poor and middle class families are told to pay 100% with tens of thousands of dollars in student loans. Low and middle class young adults are put in debt to subsidize this virtue-signaling.

It's the actual cost of the program that's lower. It's a limited course offering program conducted without any facilities. Why on Earth would you think it costs the same as normal degree from a physical college? It's a different program with different costs.

Also, if you're very concerned about the cost of college for low income people, go donate some money to scholarship funds. That's doing something. If you're just going to voice an opinion about it, I hate to break it to you, but you're virtue signaling. You're voicing an opinion, at no cost to yourself, so that we all know you care about the cost of college. The people donating money to put prisoners through college are, whatever you think of the program, sacrificing more for their beliefs than you are by posting on a message board.

Of course it’s unfair! Private donations?! Try having a gofundme for your middle class child and tell me how well it goes lol.
It’s part of the worrying trend in the American society where something clearly abnormal is actively normalized, and feeble calls for common sense are labeled as backwards, racist, whatnot.

Anonymous wrote:I’m not upset prisoners have this option.

I’m upset non-prisoners don’t.

+1. The priority ought to be making sure low and middle class kids get free college, first. Then worry about prisoners. But the rich & Ivory Tower fat cats who dream up these programs don't give a darn about low and middle class kids, who their kids and grandkids compete with. Frankly, they WANT your scrappy kid in the hole.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:According to gov scorecard, the average LAB-ABIDING middle class kid leaves Calvin University with $23,000 in student loans.

While CONVICTED CRIMINALS get a free bachelor's degree.

https://collegescorecard.ed.gov/school/?169080-Calvin-University

Pell Grants covers 60% of the program, so we know that the total cost per pupil for this program is around $11,500 or about 1/3 of the cost of tuition at Calvin. Calvin also provides financial aid for students of, on average, $23,000. Students are Calvin are getting a much more expensive (and valuable) program, with, on average, more being paid for them by other people (grants, aid, etc.) than the entire cost of the program for prisoners.

In other words, convicted felons are given 66% off tuition while poor and middle class families are told to pay 100% with tens of thousands of dollars in student loans. Low and middle class young adults are put in debt to subsidize this virtue-signaling.

I don't have an issue with prisoners being prepared for post prison life. I just do have an issue with them getting superior treatment to low and middle class kids. It's wicked to punish law-abiding lower income kids and put them $23,000-35,000 in the hole for the same degree you're giving criminals for free.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Really OP? eyeroll.

Wouldn't you rather these convicts learn something useful while they are serving time - and perhaps give them a chance to be productive, self supporting individuals when they leave?

And for those that don't leave....how exactly is their degree behind bars of any consequence to your low/middle class kid.

Finally, I bet you you looked hard enough, you could find a school willing to help your child go to college. If your kid is a good student, find a school that has stats far below their own and get merit aid.

Prison is for punishment

Prison is for rehabilitation.

Your mom says that?

https://www.google.com/search?q=prison

pris·on
/ˈprizən/

noun
a building in which people are legally held as a punishment for a crime they have committed or while awaiting trial.

Similar:
jail
penal institution
place of detention
lockup
place of confinement
guardhouse

That has been the debate for centuries. More progressive countries (and people) view it as both. Yes, there is a debt to society that needs to be paid, but at the end a person should come out better than they were when they went it. Otherwise, it's a revolving door.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Really OP? eyeroll.

Wouldn't you rather these convicts learn something useful while they are serving time - and perhaps give them a chance to be productive, self supporting individuals when they leave?

And for those that don't leave....how exactly is their degree behind bars of any consequence to your low/middle class kid.

Finally, I bet you you looked hard enough, you could find a school willing to help your child go to college. If your kid is a good student, find a school that has stats far below their own and get merit aid.

Prison is for punishment

Prison is for rehabilitation.

Your mom says that?

https://www.google.com/search?q=prison

pris·on
/ˈprizən/

noun
a building in which people are legally held as a punishment for a crime they have committed or while awaiting trial.

Similar:
jail
penal institution
place of detention
lockup
place of confinement
guardhouse

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Really OP? eyeroll.

Wouldn't you rather these convicts learn something useful while they are serving time - and perhaps give them a chance to be productive, self supporting individuals when they leave?

And for those that don't leave....how exactly is their degree behind bars of any consequence to your low/middle class kid.

Finally, I bet you you looked hard enough, you could find a school willing to help your child go to college. If your kid is a good student, find a school that has stats far below their own and get merit aid.

Prison is for punishment

Prison is for rehabilitation.

I would only want the scholarships to go to those who have a chance of getting out of prison and bettering their lives.

Sex offenders? No.
Murderers who are in for life? No.

Even with those degrees, they'll face a steep hill of getting hired at most places other than food service.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Look OP. Somebody thought it would be a good idea for inmates to get college degrees, then they got some momentum going and made it happen. If you think something needs to change, do the same thing. Make it happen. There are already lots of people trying to change the problems oriole have identified on this thread about college accessibility for various groups. Figure out what cause you want to support and go support it.

It's called virtue signaling, likely funded by a handful of millionaires, plus a steep discount to the prisoners. Millionaires and Ivory Tower elites have more compassion for convicted criminals than low and middle class kids. Period. It's honestly disgusting!

I assume the millionaire donors of the university, plus the local church (?), donated some money but also negotiated a steep discount of the tuition and fees from the university. In other words, donations and steep discounts not given to law-abiding teenagers. Because helping low and middle class teens graduate debt free isn't exotic enough, not virtue-signal worthy.

Anonymous wrote:According to gov scorecard, the average LAB-ABIDING middle class kid leaves Calvin University with $23,000 in student loans.

While CONVICTED CRIMINALS get a free bachelor's degree.

https://collegescorecard.ed.gov/school/?169080-Calvin-University

Pell Grants covers 60% of the program, so we know that the total cost per pupil for this program is around $11,500 or about 1/3 of the cost of tuition at Calvin. Calvin also provides financial aid for students of, on average, $23,000. Students are Calvin are getting a much more expensive (and valuable) program, with, on average, more being paid for them by other people (grants, aid, etc.) than the entire cost of the program for prisoners.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Look OP. Somebody thought it would be a good idea for inmates to get college degrees, then they got some momentum going and made it happen. If you think something needs to change, do the same thing. Make it happen. There are already lots of people trying to change the problems oriole have identified on this thread about college accessibility for various groups. Figure out what cause you want to support and go support it.

It's called virtue signaling, likely funded by a handful of millionaires plus a steep discount to the prisoners. Millionaires and Ivory Tower elites have compassion for convicted criminals than low and middle class kids. Period. It's honestly disgusting!

Okay sure. Fine. Then go make college more accessible for low and middle class kids.

Anonymous wrote:Look OP. Somebody thought it would be a good idea for inmates to get college degrees, then they got some momentum going and made it happen. If you think something needs to change, do the same thing. Make it happen. There are already lots of people trying to change the problems oriole have identified on this thread about college accessibility for various groups. Figure out what cause you want to support and go support it.

It's called virtue signaling, likely funded by a handful of millionaires plus a steep discount to the prisoners. Millionaires and Ivory Tower elites have compassion for convicted criminals than low and middle class kids. Period. It's honestly disgusting!

Anonymous wrote:According to gov scorecard, the average LAB-ABIDING middle class kid leaves Calvin University with $23,000 in student loans.

While CONVICTED CRIMINALS get a free bachelor's degree.

https://collegescorecard.ed.gov/school/?169080-Calvin-University

I think you’d have to compare convicted criminals to the poorest students; they are not usually middle class. And if they are older than, what, 24? They don’t need to include their parents’ income on the FAFSA.

What you should really get upset about is for profit prisons. We don't truly rehabilitate people in this country. (Yes I know, some can't be rehabilitated). We disproportionately fill prisons with poor [black] men and give them ridiculous sentences for minor non-violent offenses. So, with no education they'll end up right back in prison where you'll be paying for them anyway with taxes. Furthermore, once they get out, if they can't find a legitimate job, you bet your ass they'll be making money somehow. So it's not about it being fair to your middle class child dollar for dollar in college education. It's about keeping these people out of prison. Some would say they should have had this opportunity in the first place and they might not have ended up in prison.