Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In my experience, both private sector and high-ranking government, for Yale this isn’t a surprise. I don’t know what it is, but for some reason Yale grads seem unequipped for real world law jobs. Harvard/Stanford doesn’t make sense to me.

Well, it does when you take into account David Lat when to Yale - hence Yale’s position just above the cut-off -and he then puts rivals Stanford and Harvard much lower

Davis Lat is no longer associated with ATL.

Meant to add — and he’s been very critical of Yale Law as of late.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In my experience, both private sector and high-ranking government, for Yale this isn’t a surprise. I don’t know what it is, but for some reason Yale grads seem unequipped for real world law jobs. Harvard/Stanford doesn’t make sense to me.

Well, it does when you take into account David Lat when to Yale - hence Yale’s position just above the cut-off -and he then puts rivals Stanford and Harvard much lower

Davis Lat is no longer associated with ATL.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maybe HYS grads are just turning away from soul-crushing stints in Big Law and going on to get PhDs (needed to become a professor at top law schools - most of whom have JDs from HYS) or going in house right away at tech start ups that offered greater deferred compensation. In any event, COVID-times make the job numbers everywhere wonky.

I have yet to know an HYS law grad now teaching at a top law school who also has a PhD. Not one and I know more than a few.

I’m not a lawyer (I have a PhD and am idly clicking through recent topics), but even I know a Harvard law grad/Yale PhD who is a prof at Northwestern in IP law (not sure if Northwestern counts as a top law school though?). The pay was reportedly not big-law amazing, but (from the outside) it appears to be a really sweet gig.

Anonymous wrote:In my experience, both private sector and high-ranking government, for Yale this isn’t a surprise. I don’t know what it is, but for some reason Yale grads seem unequipped for real world law jobs. Harvard/Stanford doesn’t make sense to me.

Well, it does when you take into account David Lat when to Yale - hence Yale’s position just above the cut-off -and he then puts rivals Stanford and Harvard much lower

Anonymous wrote:Considering the recent idiocy of YLS students, I'm not particularly surprised. Who would want to hire these twits?

+1!

Anonymous wrote:When Yale law students have tantrums preventing debates and can’t handle open debate, and professors are pushed out when others don’t agree with their opinions, that’s a big problem. Yale law is a joke (the college is too, but I expect more from the Law School).

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/restoring-america/faith-freedom-self-reliance/law-schools-are-the-new-front-lines-in-free-speech-wars

https://fightforyale.com/

https://www.reuters.com/legal/legalindustry/yale-law-students-blackballed-refusing-lie-about-professor-lawsuit-says-2021-11-16/

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/07/amy-chua-yale-law-school-real-story-dinner-party/619558/

THIS. They have shown who they are. Avoid.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can someone post the top 10- I do not have an ATL account and do not want to do so and get sucked into its vortex 😊.

Here's top 25.

A win for Catholic law schools -- BC and ND up...ND passes Yale and Harvard. Gotta love it.

Anonymous wrote:Can someone post the top 10- I do not have an ATL account and do not want to do so and get sucked into its vortex 😊.

Here's top 25.

This ROI ranking approach is ridiculous. If it applied to DMV schools, only publics would do well (Very little “I” in the ROI) vs. the most expensive privates. And what about the people getting close to full rides at HLS and YLS?

In my experience, both private sector and high-ranking government, for Yale this isn’t a surprise. I don’t know what it is, but for some reason Yale grads seem unequipped for real world law jobs. Harvard/Stanford doesn’t make sense to me.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't think job placement should count double of important clerkships. Count getting a clerkship as employment. Some of those random school jobs are with low paying firms. A clerkship is a low paying prestigious job.

Redo the percentages including that and you'll be back to Yale and Harvard. And no, I did not graduate from either, but I do understand how hard it is to get an important clerkship.

The job placement ranking does include clerkships. From the article:

QUALITY JOBS SCORE (35%)
This measures the schools’ success at placing students on career paths that best enable them to pay off their student debts. We’ve combined placement with the country’s largest and best-paying law firms and the percentage of graduates embarking on federal judicial clerkships. These clerkships typically lead to a broader and enhanced range of employment opportunities.

https://abovethelaw.com/top-law-schools-2022/

Yes. But clerkships were counted at a lower percentage of the total than regular jobs.

ALL clerkships count as a “quality job” and count in the 35% weight for that category. So, clerkships (in whatever court) count the same as a Big Law job. SCOTUS clerkships (and judgeships) get an additional 5% weight. This is to the benefit of Yale & Harvard, who tend to have a higher proportion of SCOTUS clerks and judges.

Anonymous wrote:I don't think job placement should count double of important clerkships. Count getting a clerkship as employment. Some of those random school jobs are with low paying firms. A clerkship is a low paying prestigious job.

Redo the percentages including that and you'll be back to Yale and Harvard. And no, I did not graduate from either, but I do understand how hard it is to get an important clerkship.

Why would this have changed over the past year? This has always been the case, but the methodology used is the same as the past years.

Anonymous wrote:Tweak the methodology —> create clickbait nonsense. Womp, womp.

The methodology is the same. That is why it is interesting.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't think job placement should count double of important clerkships. Count getting a clerkship as employment. Some of those random school jobs are with low paying firms. A clerkship is a low paying prestigious job.

Redo the percentages including that and you'll be back to Yale and Harvard. And no, I did not graduate from either, but I do understand how hard it is to get an important clerkship.

The job placement ranking does include clerkships. From the article:

QUALITY JOBS SCORE (35%)
This measures the schools’ success at placing students on career paths that best enable them to pay off their student debts. We’ve combined placement with the country’s largest and best-paying law firms and the percentage of graduates embarking on federal judicial clerkships. These clerkships typically lead to a broader and enhanced range of employment opportunities.

https://abovethelaw.com/top-law-schools-2022/

Yes. But clerkships were counted at a lower percentage of the total than regular jobs.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't think job placement should count double of important clerkships. Count getting a clerkship as employment. Some of those random school jobs are with low paying firms. A clerkship is a low paying prestigious job.

Redo the percentages including that and you'll be back to Yale and Harvard. And no, I did not graduate from either, but I do understand how hard it is to get an important clerkship.

The job placement ranking does include clerkships. From the article:

QUALITY JOBS SCORE (35%)
This measures the schools’ success at placing students on career paths that best enable them to pay off their student debts. We’ve combined placement with the country’s largest and best-paying law firms and the percentage of graduates embarking on federal judicial clerkships. These clerkships typically lead to a broader and enhanced range of employment opportunities.

https://abovethelaw.com/top-law-schools-2022/

In top of counting clerkships as a “quality job,” they also add another 5% of the score for Supreme Court Clerkships and federal judgeships:

SCOTUS CLERK & FEDERAL JUDGESHIP SCORES (5% EACH)
Though obviously applicable to very different stages of legal careers, these two categories represent the pinnacles of the profession. For the purposes of these rankings, we simply looked at a school's graduates as a percentage of (1) all U.S. Supreme Court clerks (since 2017) and (2) currently sitting Article III judges. Both scores are adjusted for the size of the school. Obviously, we are aware that for the vast majority of students, Supreme Court clerkships or the federal bench are simply not prospects. But for the students who do want to be judges and academics, this outcome represents a useful separating factor for the most elite schools. Some schools put you in robes, others can't.