Anonymous wrote:
I think by skipping Ivy fever and focusing her efforts on non-Ivy T20 colleges, She’ll have better options and these schools are as good, just not a member of a famous sports league with high marketing budget.

Great point OP. T20 is a piece of cake.

No.

Harvard or bust.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ivies are subset of T20.

Cornell #17
Brown #14
Dartmouth #13
UPenn #8
etc.
(by USN&WR)

They are just part of T20
What do you mean??

I actually think the Ivies should be treated as a separate group from the rest of the top 10 schools.

Well, some of them aren’t even in the top 10 of the list being batted around here, so…

They are in fact better than the top 10 schools. US News follows a formula, and some of the Ivies don't fit the formula as well as some other schools that are ranked in the top. Still, many top students in the US apply and rank these Ivies higher than the other non-Ivy top 10 schools.

Better what?
Your mom told you that?

Yes, my mom told me that. She happens to be all knowing.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Look at the top 100 -- are there any bad schools where your specific child will not get out of it what they put in? Any where you will worry that they aren't employable or eligible for grad school because of the college name on the resume? Of course not.

There is probably no difference between school #89 and school #46. Ah, the insecurities of suburbanites

For comparison take #47 and #83: Villanova and Marquette---both similar sized Jesuit urban schools.
I have first hand knowledge of one, as my kid graduated from MU. I'd say the biggest difference would be the "level" of student overall will be higher at the one with the higher gpa/sat scores and lower admission rate. MU acceptance rate is over 80%, SAT is 1240, GPA 3.62. Villanova acceptance rate is 28%, 1395 and 3.86.
So smart kids at both schools, and at MU there will be kids with drive/gpa/sat similar to those at Villanova---it just wont be as many kids. My kid graduated with a 3.3 GPA and that was the highest of all their friends (25+ students for a reference point). All have jobs or are into grad school, some into Medical grad school (DPT/OT). However, all wanted to have a nice balance of school and social life while at college (yeah, their thursday/friday/sat nights at the bars were important to them and Sunday's watching football was as well) ---they were fine with some B's and a few C's. Yet I know there are plenty of MU students who know they need a 3.7+ GPA to go onto med school/DPT/OT/Dental/etc or are just that driven of students and are not satisfied with B's/C's. Those students are striving for and earning 3.7+ gpas and spending 90% of their time focused on academics and extra curricular that are essential for their future endeavors. Yes, they have fun and party, but you might find them not partying if they have a big exam on Monday.

I suspect that the Honors students at MU across the board are more similar to the average student at Villanova.
So there are plenty of smart kids at MU and Villanova, I believe there will be a wider range of students at Marquette. All go on to succeed in life. And for the "smarter" (I hesitate to say that---but really mean the more academically focused/driven student/one who strives for all A's and isn't happy to get a C if they didn't work 110% for and get it), the honors program at MU would provide the student a group of like minded students.

Anonymous wrote:Look at the top 100 -- are there any bad schools where your specific child will not get out of it what they put in? Any where you will worry that they aren't employable or eligible for grad school because of the college name on the resume? Of course not.

There is probably no difference between school #89 and school #46. Ah, the insecurities of suburbanites

Anonymous wrote:
I think by skipping Ivy fever and focusing her efforts on non-Ivy T20 colleges, She’ll have better options and these schools are as good, just not a member of a famous sports league with high marketing budget.

Well... simply because your DD is skipping Ivies doesn't mean she will then be a shoo-in for the other T20s (just went through this admissions cycle). Best to pick a mix of reaches, targets, and likelies, then go from there. I do know a kid who wanted Penn, but was told her chances were not great as no hook, etc. so she doubled down on Northwestern and was successful in ED1. She really pitched herself, tailored her app, and was a compelling candidate. Yet it is also luck as a few other similar kids were not successful.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ivies are subset of T20.

Cornell #17
Brown #14
Dartmouth #13
UPenn #8
etc.
(by USN&WR)

They are just part of T20
What do you mean??

I actually think the Ivies should be treated as a separate group from the rest of the top 10 schools.

Well, some of them aren’t even in the top 10 of the list being batted around here, so…

They are in fact better than the top 10 schools. US News follows a formula, and some of the Ivies don't fit the formula as well as some other schools that are ranked in the top. Still, many top students in the US apply and rank these Ivies higher than the other non-Ivy top 10 schools.

Better what?
Your mom told you that?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ivies are subset of T20.

Cornell #17
Brown #14
Dartmouth #13
UPenn #8
etc.
(by USN&WR)

They are just part of T20
What do you mean??

I actually think the Ivies should be treated as a separate group from the rest of the top 10 schools.

Well, some of them aren’t even in the top 10 of the list being batted around here, so…

They are in fact better than the top 10 schools. US News follows a formula, and some of the Ivies don't fit the formula as well as some other schools that are ranked in the top. Still, many top students in the US apply and rank these Ivies higher than the other non-Ivy top 10 schools.

Ok, so forget about Ivy and advise people to skip the top 20 altogether if you care about being consistent. The Ivies are scattered throughout the top 20 schools with lowest acceptance rates. In fact Penn doesn’t even make top 20.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All of the top schools -- ivy or otherwise -- have low admission rates. If you are trying to avoid heartache and stress, aim for top 50.

Top 50 except schools like Georgetown, NYU, USC, Northeastern, NYU, BU, BC, Tufts
Their acceptance rates are low to mid teen on par with some of the T20 like Rice, WashU, Notre Dame,

What? You sound vey ignorant. What are these magical high acceptance rate schools in the T50? For example, Tulane had an acceptance rate of 8% this year. Most (all?) T50s are extremely competitive. I would also add that T50 schools are all TOP schools.

Don't get too excited.
Those were examples, and I forgot Tulane.
Again these shools are relatively more competitive almost on par with some of the T20 schools.
We are talking in terms of T20 competitiveness.

All the T50 schools are great and competitive.
However schools like Case Western, URocheser, etc. in T50 are in the 20s 30s range while those are particulary more competitive almost at T20 level.

NP: That was a thoughtful and knowledgeable response, considering the PPP's rude name calling.

I am the PP and I was not being rude or calling names. I was using the word ignorant to mean a lack of knowledge about the college process- not as a pejorative.

And, you were wrong, making you uniformed and turning the assignation into a pejorative.

Look at the top 100 -- are there any bad schools where your specific child will not get out of it what they put in? Any where you will worry that they aren't employable or eligible for grad school because of the college name on the resume? Of course not.

Anonymous wrote:In addition to the Ivys, I would also skip Northeastern if you want to avoid a heartbreak. With 90,000+ applicants and a miraculously low acceptance rate, NEU has this year announced its presence as the elite-of-the-elite and the new king of the Boston-area schools. It will soon eclipse the old complacent elites in the area like Harvard and Brown who don't offer the vocational training and jobs focus that NEU does. NEU has a great business model for filling in seats and filling up dorms (and several five-star hotels in the area). So, apply here with caution.

It doesn’t even make the top 50 list of schools with the lowest acceptance rates, so you needn’t worry.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All of the top schools -- ivy or otherwise -- have low admission rates. If you are trying to avoid heartache and stress, aim for top 50.

Top 50 except schools like Georgetown, NYU, USC, Northeastern, NYU, BU, BC, Tufts
Their acceptance rates are low to mid teen on par with some of the T20 like Rice, WashU, Notre Dame,

What? You sound vey ignorant. What are these magical high acceptance rate schools in the T50? For example, Tulane had an acceptance rate of 8% this year. Most (all?) T50s are extremely competitive. I would also add that T50 schools are all TOP schools.

Don't get too excited.
Those were examples, and I forgot Tulane.
Again these shools are relatively more competitive almost on par with some of the T20 schools.
We are talking in terms of T20 competitiveness.

All the T50 schools are great and competitive.
However schools like Case Western, URocheser, etc. in T50 are in the 20s 30s range while those are particulary more competitive almost at T20 level.

NP: That was a thoughtful and knowledgeable response, considering the PPP's rude name calling.

I am the PP and I was not being rude or calling names. I was using the word ignorant to mean a lack of knowledge about the college process- not as a pejorative.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ivies are subset of T20.

Cornell #17
Brown #14
Dartmouth #13
UPenn #8
etc.
(by USN&WR)

They are just part of T20
What do you mean??

I actually think the Ivies should be treated as a separate group from the rest of the top 10 schools.

Well, some of them aren’t even in the top 10 of the list being batted around here, so…

They are in fact better than the top 10 schools. US News follows a formula, and some of the Ivies don't fit the formula as well as some other schools that are ranked in the top. Still, many top students in the US apply and rank these Ivies higher than the other non-Ivy top 10 schools.

Anonymous wrote:Sometimes I wonder if these threads are actually adults talking to one another or kids who just don't know any better or trolls seeing who they can get riled up. Because why would intelligent adults (or kids) believe the way to decide where to attend college is to use a ranking created by someone else whose only claim to authority is that they've been doing it for decades? There are hundreds of universities where a student with straight A's in all AP classes and a 1600 on her SAT can get an excellent education.

Because so many adults do actually care, for some strange reason, about the rankings. It's really unhealthy. Parents somehow feel their worth is based on "where their kid gets into college".

Majority of kids who think they have a chance at a T50 school will do well wherever they land---these are motivated kids who will succeed in life and where they go doesn't really matter. Much more important that they be happy where they are and they find the correct fit!

Yet we as a society have driven our HS kids to be miserable all in the name of getting into the best college. Kids no longer choose what to do/take in HS because it interested them, they do it to check boxes or because "it's what you do to go to a T20 school". I'm happy my own kid chose their own path in HS. It may have hurt them when applying to T20 schools (talking about not taking beyond Spanish 3 as AP Spanish was with a TERRIBLE teacher kid had previously, and opting instead for more AP STEM courses as a future engineer). But so what---if that's why my kid got rejected at T20 schools, my kid was happier and more engaged in HS by taking the advanced courses they wanted to take, not what they thought they Needed to take. My kid ended up where they belong and were thrilled with their choice the moment they first stepped onto campus. Yes, it was not their "top choice"---that was a T10 school. But it was a close 2nd and they will go far in life

Anonymous wrote:Yeah. Good luck with some of the above. Not a single kid in my daughter’s large wealthy public HS was admitted to Georgetown this year.

Tier 1 schools include Stanford, Harvard, Princeton, Yale, MIT, UChicago, Caltech, Columbia, Brown, Northwestern, The University of Pennsylvania, Dartmouth, Duke, Vanderbilt, Cornell, Johns Hopkins, and Rice.Feb 12, 2021

So many kids will have zero chance at many on OP’s list.

USNewsWR is fixed. Colleges can use a formula to boost their ranking. Some lower on their list are much harder to get into. The use of "Tier' is more accurate.