The idea of rigor is a hard one to measure, imo, and feels like a double edged sword. I hear a lot of "most rigorous" curriculum but what does that actually mean? There is a single boy at my son's school who took Linear algebra/multi-variable as a junior and will take number theory as a senior... is he considered more rigorous than a kid who takes two AP languages and but "only" gets to AP AB Calc? Or the kid who takes Calculus-based physics but not Honors History? My hunch is once you get to a certain point, it is all "most rigorous" but if you ask the kids themselves they would tell you these kids who track ahead are truly brighter than the rest -- but not sure that the college AO has enough time to really get into the weeds like this.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Another Big 3 Senior parent here. 3.7 GPA at time of application with highest rigor, great test scores, ECs, and compelling essays got into an Ivy ED. No regrets in not throwing the hat in the ring for Stanford, Yale, Princeton or Harvard in the early round. PP is correct GPA much higher Junior and Senior year so showed upward trend.

My kid with a similar profile at a Big 3 did not get into an Ivy, but did get in to a top 20. He also did not make the cut for cum laude, so while 3.7 is a strong GPA, it’s not rare, either.

Congratulations. As such, once one gets past HYPS (and maybe Columbia these days), the remaining Ivies look a lot like the non-Ivy top 20 schools in their admissions standards. Genuine crapshoot.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Another Big 3 Senior parent here. 3.7 GPA at time of application with highest rigor, great test scores, ECs, and compelling essays got into an Ivy ED. No regrets in not throwing the hat in the ring for Stanford, Yale, Princeton or Harvard in the early round. PP is correct GPA much higher Junior and Senior year so showed upward trend.

My kid with a similar profile at a Big 3 did not get into an Ivy, but did get in to a top 20. He also did not make the cut for cum laude, so while 3.7 is a strong GPA, it’s not rare, either.

What grade number is a 3.7

Anonymous wrote:Another Big 3 Senior parent here. 3.7 GPA at time of application with highest rigor, great test scores, ECs, and compelling essays got into an Ivy ED. No regrets in not throwing the hat in the ring for Stanford, Yale, Princeton or Harvard in the early round. PP is correct GPA much higher Junior and Senior year so showed upward trend.

My kid with a similar profile at a Big 3 did not get into an Ivy, but did get in to a top 20. He also did not make the cut for cum laude, so while 3.7 is a strong GPA, it’s not rare, either.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid is graduating with something very close to a 3.8 from a "big 3" and had ZERO chance at Harvard, or any Ivy, despite many varsity letters, leadership in clubs, regional awards and summer employment.

Really? I would have thought your DC would have a modest shot, no? Not at Harvard, but a couple of the lower ranked Ivies perhaps?

Similar stats for mine. 3.8. Will have 4 years of 2 (non-English) languages. Recognition on some national competitions. Summer internships/jobs. Won’t even consider applying to any Ivies, or probably even any Top 20. Even if say, Cornell, was in shouting distance, there are at least 20 non-Ivies my DC would rather go to that are slightly less competitive. Any Ivy just for Ivy’s sake is not DC’s mindset.

Wow. Things have indeed gotten WAY tougher since even 5 years ago when our DC applied. The profile above would have been GOLD at all but the top Ivies.

or maybe there's been grade inflation at school??? What matters is class rank and rigor of courses. GPA alone says very little

Schools generally do not provide class rank -- right? And the mix of even rigorous classes varies across students. This must make things a bit complicated for MOs.

They may not report exact rank, but ours does provide ranges. So they report to colleges that x% have 3.75 or higher, y% have 3.5-3.75 etc. So an AO would have at least a general sense of where the applicant falls.

Is 4.0 scale same everywhere? A 92 is a 3.7 correct?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid is graduating with something very close to a 3.8 from a "big 3" and had ZERO chance at Harvard, or any Ivy, despite many varsity letters, leadership in clubs, regional awards and summer employment.

Really? I would have thought your DC would have a modest shot, no? Not at Harvard, but a couple of the lower ranked Ivies perhaps?

Similar stats for mine. 3.8. Will have 4 years of 2 (non-English) languages. Recognition on some national competitions. Summer internships/jobs. Won’t even consider applying to any Ivies, or probably even any Top 20. Even if say, Cornell, was in shouting distance, there are at least 20 non-Ivies my DC would rather go to that are slightly less competitive. Any Ivy just for Ivy’s sake is not DC’s mindset.

Wow. Things have indeed gotten WAY tougher since even 5 years ago when our DC applied. The profile above would have been GOLD at all but the top Ivies.

The poster doesn't know that her child wouldn't get in. She is saying that they won't apply because her child prefers a less competitive environment. Very different.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Also, did grading improve in the math/ science classes or in the English/history/language.

Grades improved in English, Foreign Language, and Science. I think it was maturity and better Science teachers.

Thanks. Very good to know! Sidwell?

Anonymous wrote:Also, did grading improve in the math/ science classes or in the English/history/language.

Grades improved in English, Foreign Language, and Science. I think it was maturity and better Science teachers.

Also, did grading improve in the math/ science classes or in the English/history/language.

Anonymous wrote:Another Big 3 Senior parent here. 3.7 GPA at time of application with highest rigor, great test scores, ECs, and compelling essays got into an Ivy ED. No regrets in not throwing the hat in the ring for Stanford, Yale, Princeton or Harvard in the early round. PP is correct GPA much higher Junior and Senior year so showed upward trend.

Thanks for sharing. Could you elaborate on the “higher” JR/SR year grades. Is this bc of student being able to choose courses they like? Or more lax grading by teachers to support college apps? Junior year appears to be the toughest by reputation in our DCs school…so just wondering..

Anonymous wrote:Another Big 3 Senior parent here. 3.7 GPA at time of application with highest rigor, great test scores, ECs, and compelling essays got into an Ivy ED. No regrets in not throwing the hat in the ring for Stanford, Yale, Princeton or Harvard in the early round. PP is correct GPA much higher Junior and Senior year so showed upward trend.

Same profile kid here. Rejected.

The basket weaving comment made me laugh, thank you. Both of my kids fell into less popular sports, and we still don't think the Ivies will be likely. Looking at stats, our DS might make it to the Olympics, but he still won't get into Princeton. Our DD is in a sport that is heavily recruited. She's good, but still not good enough to go to the Ivies, which take the very best of the best.

Maybe other people are good at pushing their kids to be the best basket weaver out there. At some point, the kid has to be motivated, and, to some extent, have some natural talent, which did not grace my children. But they love what they do and it keeps them sane. And neither one of them has a 3.7 GPA.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid is graduating with something very close to a 3.8 from a "big 3" and had ZERO chance at Harvard, or any Ivy, despite many varsity letters, leadership in clubs, regional awards and summer employment.

Really? I would have thought your DC would have a modest shot, no? Not at Harvard, but a couple of the lower ranked Ivies perhaps?

Similar stats for mine. 3.8. Will have 4 years of 2 (non-English) languages. Recognition on some national competitions. Summer internships/jobs. Won’t even consider applying to any Ivies, or probably even any Top 20. Even if say, Cornell, was in shouting distance, there are at least 20 non-Ivies my DC would rather go to that are slightly less competitive. Any Ivy just for Ivy’s sake is not DC’s mindset.

Wow. Things have indeed gotten WAY tougher since even 5 years ago when our DC applied. The profile above would have been GOLD at all but the top Ivies.

or maybe there's been grade inflation at school??? What matters is class rank and rigor of courses. GPA alone says very little

Schools generally do not provide class rank -- right? And the mix of even rigorous classes varies across students. This must make things a bit complicated for MOs.

They may not report exact rank, but ours does provide ranges. So they report to colleges that x% have 3.75 or higher, y% have 3.5-3.75 etc. So an AO would have at least a general sense of where the applicant falls.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid is graduating with something very close to a 3.8 from a "big 3" and had ZERO chance at Harvard, or any Ivy, despite many varsity letters, leadership in clubs, regional awards and summer employment.

Really? I would have thought your DC would have a modest shot, no? Not at Harvard, but a couple of the lower ranked Ivies perhaps?

Similar stats for mine. 3.8. Will have 4 years of 2 (non-English) languages. Recognition on some national competitions. Summer internships/jobs. Won’t even consider applying to any Ivies, or probably even any Top 20. Even if say, Cornell, was in shouting distance, there are at least 20 non-Ivies my DC would rather go to that are slightly less competitive. Any Ivy just for Ivy’s sake is not DC’s mindset.

Wow. Things have indeed gotten WAY tougher since even 5 years ago when our DC applied. The profile above would have been GOLD at all but the top Ivies.

or maybe there's been grade inflation at school??? What matters is class rank and rigor of courses. GPA alone says very little

Schools generally do not provide class rank -- right? And the mix of even rigorous classes varies across students. This must make things a bit complicated for MOs.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid is graduating with something very close to a 3.8 from a "big 3" and had ZERO chance at Harvard, or any Ivy, despite many varsity letters, leadership in clubs, regional awards and summer employment.

Really? I would have thought your DC would have a modest shot, no? Not at Harvard, but a couple of the lower ranked Ivies perhaps?

Similar stats for mine. 3.8. Will have 4 years of 2 (non-English) languages. Recognition on some national competitions. Summer internships/jobs. Won’t even consider applying to any Ivies, or probably even any Top 20. Even if say, Cornell, was in shouting distance, there are at least 20 non-Ivies my DC would rather go to that are slightly less competitive. Any Ivy just for Ivy’s sake is not DC’s mindset.

Wow. Things have indeed gotten WAY tougher since even 5 years ago when our DC applied. The profile above would have been GOLD at all but the top Ivies.

PP here. I don’t know if they have or not. I’ve just heard too many anecdotes that the Ivies+ want “angular” kids with a “spike” these day. The best cellist on the eastern seaboard, or whatever. I’m just not interested in curating my DC’s life to create that, nor is my DC interested in becoming hyperspecialized at 15-16 years old. I know many parents do this, its just not for me.

As the parent of a young child, I don't know how I would do this if I tried.

Like, do parents just seek out the best basket weaving academy and then pray their kid likes it long term?

pretty much

or they just require the kids to do it whether or not they like it. As with most things in life, once you get to a certain level of expertise, almost anything becomes enjoyable. What is the old saying? “How long do I have to suffer doing [X]?” “Only until you start to enjoy doing [X].”