Charters weren't created to help the underprivileged. They were created to an alternative to DCPS, which has become a prisoner of the teachers union. That's the (only) reason charters exist.

I hear you as far as no choices but here in DC
There are many options not choices for everyone and it’s tearing apart the communities
Which is why some of these schools can’t make it work

Especially with many of the the higher achievers leaving

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I mean you can play this game forever in DC.

We are at a Title 1 DCPS (middle class white family) and we often have to have a discussion about whether we will participate in a program because we know it is designed for the many at risk kids at our school and we don't want to take opportunities away from other kids. On the other hand, it's our school and we want to be part of the community. And we don't want our kid to feel separate and apart.

Example: the school has heavily subsidized after care. It's ridiculously inexpensive. Is it wrong for us to use it even though we can afford to pay more? In the end we do use it because what is the alternative? For our kid to to go to some more expensive aftercare program somewhere else so that we don't feel guilty using a subsidized service? How would that look to the kids? It makes no sense. So we get a benefit we didn't earn and don't technically need, but it's really the most sensible outcome.

And then during the lottery each year we always feel a bit confused. Does it make more sense to stay and invest in our IB school (which we like!), or to acknowledge that this school is designed to serve the needs of a community we don't really belong to and lottery into a charter or OOB DCPS where the family community is more similar to us (whiter, more middle or upper middle class). I honestly don't know the answer. So far we've stayed out of loyalty to the school and because our kid is happy. Maybe we'll last until middle. It's really hard to know what the right thing to do it, especially when of course it's a crapshoot whether we even get into another school anyway.

Public school in DC is not for the faint of heart. Unless you live in a small number of school boundaries, you will at some point have to struggle with the question of whether to make a choice that serves your community or that serves your child, and then also to question what it even means to do right by your kid. There is no "set it and forget it" mode for most DC public school parents. You will have to wrestle with these questions.

Really appreciate this persepective- and I think you have boiled it down to the issue most parents have. The inability to "set it and forget it" means there is a constant bit of pressure weighing on you. Inevitability something will force you to grapple with questions - sometimes on a more frequent basis than others. A this stress adds up. And the lack of a "right" answer is disheartening. And everyone is making these same choices, with the same stress, but different factors- people you like, respect, etc- and you all come to different conclusions- but again recognize that there is no right answer. Its exhausting. And that I think is more why people leave DC. They are tired of having to think about it and question it and constantly confirm where they stand when so many places give you one and only one option and you never have to think about it again.

True, but it also means we have a ton of choices. In MCPS, where there are no choices, I have friends of color who's kids is the only black girls in her classes. A crappy math curriculum was horrific, but there was no way to avoid it. And if you live in the western part of the district, there aren't test in options anymore for MS.

In DC we may have chaos, but it also means we get to pick from a variety of options. In other places, not so much.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I swear, white people complain about everything! This is embarrassing! Homeschool your kids if you’re afraid to have them around a diverse group of kids.

People are actually talking about lack of diversity. A school that is 84% black, 8% white, 6% Latino, and 2% AAPI? Not diverse. This is like saying that a black family who chooses not to send their children to the 90% white charter school are "afraid of diversity." They are afraid that their child will not fit in or feel welcome. Come on.

There are no schools that are 90% white in DC, but lots that are 90-99% black. Just to clarify.

Is anyone on the thread confused about that? That's specifically why PP's complaint that white parents are "afraid to have [their kids] around a diverse group of kids" is weird. If you are a white parent in DC public schools (DCPS or charter) you, by definition, are comfortable with the idea of diversity in schools. Of course there are parents who gravitate towards the schools that are 60-70% white (which do exist) and if you want to target those parents for that choice, that's one thing. But generally the issue is just a parent not wanting their kid to be the only white kid in a class, or only one of two (we have been in this situation, FTR).

I have a friend in a different part of the country who I explained these dynamics to and she couldn't relate. Her kid goes to a diverse public school in another urban area that is about 30% white, 30% non-white Hispanic, and maybe 20% black. When she described the racial dynamics (most kids have at least one friend of another race, the school does a lot of multi-cultural events and it's not just head-nodding at different groups -- they are represented by students and staff and families at the events) I felt very jealous. That's what a truly diverse school would look like. But in DC, because so many white parents choose private or head to the suburbs, and there is a lot of self-segregation among POC groups, it's just not like that and probably never will be. You have to adjust your expectations as far as diverse environments.

Huh?
Deal, the whitest DCPS middle schook, is only 46% white, 28% black, 16% hispanic. https://www.dcschoolreportcard.org/schools/1-0405
Hardy is 40% black, 32% white, 18% hispanic. https://www.dcschoolreportcard.org/schools/1-0246/profile

Sounds exactly the same. I'm not sure where you live, but it sounds like you have small kids and don't actually know the profiles of DC schools.

No, I just don't live in the Deal-Wilson pyramid. That's great if you can afford to either live IB for Deal or get in my lottery. The vast majority of DC students can't do either, which leaves the remaining DCPS MSs (which are not diverse at all), or charters. The charters are significantly more diverse. One reason many white parents in DC choose charters over their by-right MS is that they don't want their kid to be one of only a handful of white kids. Finding true diversity in DCPS is quite hard.

Perhaps you need to acquaint yourself with the demographics of DC schools outside of upper NW before weighing in on this.

You just said there are not truly diverse schools in DC like the one your friend sends her kids to. I just showed you that you are incorrect.

Then you are arguing that "the charters are significantly more diverse" ok. So those also meet your criteria.

Fundamentally, only around 25% of DC's kids are white, so I'm just not sure how you would expect true diversity at every DCPS school.

Anonymous wrote:I mean you can play this game forever in DC.

We are at a Title 1 DCPS (middle class white family) and we often have to have a discussion about whether we will participate in a program because we know it is designed for the many at risk kids at our school and we don't want to take opportunities away from other kids. On the other hand, it's our school and we want to be part of the community. And we don't want our kid to feel separate and apart.

Example: the school has heavily subsidized after care. It's ridiculously inexpensive. Is it wrong for us to use it even though we can afford to pay more? In the end we do use it because what is the alternative? For our kid to to go to some more expensive aftercare program somewhere else so that we don't feel guilty using a subsidized service? How would that look to the kids? It makes no sense. So we get a benefit we didn't earn and don't technically need, but it's really the most sensible outcome.

And then during the lottery each year we always feel a bit confused. Does it make more sense to stay and invest in our IB school (which we like!), or to acknowledge that this school is designed to serve the needs of a community we don't really belong to and lottery into a charter or OOB DCPS where the family community is more similar to us (whiter, more middle or upper middle class). I honestly don't know the answer. So far we've stayed out of loyalty to the school and because our kid is happy. Maybe we'll last until middle. It's really hard to know what the right thing to do it, especially when of course it's a crapshoot whether we even get into another school anyway.

Public school in DC is not for the faint of heart. Unless you live in a small number of school boundaries, you will at some point have to struggle with the question of whether to make a choice that serves your community or that serves your child, and then also to question what it even means to do right by your kid. There is no "set it and forget it" mode for most DC public school parents. You will have to wrestle with these questions.

Really appreciate this persepective- and I think you have boiled it down to the issue most parents have. The inability to "set it and forget it" means there is a constant bit of pressure weighing on you. Inevitability something will force you to grapple with questions - sometimes on a more frequent basis than others. A this stress adds up. And the lack of a "right" answer is disheartening. And everyone is making these same choices, with the same stress, but different factors- people you like, respect, etc- and you all come to different conclusions- but again recognize that there is no right answer. Its exhausting. And that I think is more why people leave DC. They are tired of having to think about it and question it and constantly confirm where they stand when so many places give you one and only one option and you never have to think about it again.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I mean you can play this game forever in DC.

We are at a Title 1 DCPS (middle class white family) and we often have to have a discussion about whether we will participate in a program because we know it is designed for the many at risk kids at our school and we don't want to take opportunities away from other kids. On the other hand, it's our school and we want to be part of the community. And we don't want our kid to feel separate and apart.

Example: the school has heavily subsidized after care. It's ridiculously inexpensive. Is it wrong for us to use it even though we can afford to pay more? In the end we do use it because what is the alternative? For our kid to to go to some more expensive aftercare program somewhere else so that we don't feel guilty using a subsidized service? How would that look to the kids? It makes no sense. So we get a benefit we didn't earn and don't technically need, but it's really the most sensible outcome.

And then during the lottery each year we always feel a bit confused. Does it make more sense to stay and invest in our IB school (which we like!), or to acknowledge that this school is designed to serve the needs of a community we don't really belong to and lottery into a charter or OOB DCPS where the family community is more similar to us (whiter, more middle or upper middle class). I honestly don't know the answer. So far we've stayed out of loyalty to the school and because our kid is happy. Maybe we'll last until middle. It's really hard to know what the right thing to do it, especially when of course it's a crapshoot whether we even get into another school anyway.

Public school in DC is not for the faint of heart. Unless you live in a small number of school boundaries, you will at some point have to struggle with the question of whether to make a choice that serves your community or that serves your child, and then also to question what it even means to do right by your kid. There is no "set it and forget it" mode for most DC public school parents. You will have to wrestle with these questions.

Yeah, the above is us. With our first kid, it was clear the kid would do well anywhere. The second clearly needs more out of school. Will our choices be the same for both in a choice-heavy environment? Who knows.

You really shouldn't feel bad about taking part in programs/activities for lower-SES families because your participation actually makes such programs more sustainable. And it's rare that your participation prevents access to another family.

Overall, we need to stop overthinking everything in terms of our individual choices. You'll always be able to identify something "problematic" with this or that choice if you're intent on doing so. To the extent we are concerned about certain things, it probably makes more sense to get involved or support efforts at a systematic, maco-level, which is only way many of these problems can be addressed in earnest. In the meantime, just do what makes best sense for your family.

No, your participation doesn't make such programs more sustainable -- not at a Title 1 school. The school gets federal funds to make everything low cost. But as more high-income families join, the Title 1 funding goes away, and leaves the school (and parents) in a real lurch. Check schools like Watkins where there are never enough funds to ensure that everyone who needs affordable aftercare can actually get it.

I stand corrected on that point about Title-1 funding.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I swear, white people complain about everything! This is embarrassing! Homeschool your kids if you’re afraid to have them around a diverse group of kids.

People are actually talking about lack of diversity. A school that is 84% black, 8% white, 6% Latino, and 2% AAPI? Not diverse. This is like saying that a black family who chooses not to send their children to the 90% white charter school are "afraid of diversity." They are afraid that their child will not fit in or feel welcome. Come on.

There are no schools that are 90% white in DC, but lots that are 90-99% black. Just to clarify.

Is anyone on the thread confused about that? That's specifically why PP's complaint that white parents are "afraid to have [their kids] around a diverse group of kids" is weird. If you are a white parent in DC public schools (DCPS or charter) you, by definition, are comfortable with the idea of diversity in schools. Of course there are parents who gravitate towards the schools that are 60-70% white (which do exist) and if you want to target those parents for that choice, that's one thing. But generally the issue is just a parent not wanting their kid to be the only white kid in a class, or only one of two (we have been in this situation, FTR).

I have a friend in a different part of the country who I explained these dynamics to and she couldn't relate. Her kid goes to a diverse public school in another urban area that is about 30% white, 30% non-white Hispanic, and maybe 20% black. When she described the racial dynamics (most kids have at least one friend of another race, the school does a lot of multi-cultural events and it's not just head-nodding at different groups -- they are represented by students and staff and families at the events) I felt very jealous. That's what a truly diverse school would look like. But in DC, because so many white parents choose private or head to the suburbs, and there is a lot of self-segregation among POC groups, it's just not like that and probably never will be. You have to adjust your expectations as far as diverse environments.

Huh?
Deal, the whitest DCPS middle schook, is only 46% white, 28% black, 16% hispanic. https://www.dcschoolreportcard.org/schools/1-0405
Hardy is 40% black, 32% white, 18% hispanic. https://www.dcschoolreportcard.org/schools/1-0246/profile

Sounds exactly the same. I'm not sure where you live, but it sounds like you have small kids and don't actually know the profiles of DC schools.

No, I just don't live in the Deal-Wilson pyramid. That's great if you can afford to either live IB for Deal or get in my lottery. The vast majority of DC students can't do either, which leaves the remaining DCPS MSs (which are not diverse at all), or charters. The charters are significantly more diverse. One reason many white parents in DC choose charters over their by-right MS is that they don't want their kid to be one of only a handful of white kids. Finding true diversity in DCPS is quite hard.

Perhaps you need to acquaint yourself with the demographics of DC schools outside of upper NW before weighing in on this.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I swear, white people complain about everything! This is embarrassing! Homeschool your kids if you’re afraid to have them around a diverse group of kids.

People are actually talking about lack of diversity. A school that is 84% black, 8% white, 6% Latino, and 2% AAPI? Not diverse. This is like saying that a black family who chooses not to send their children to the 90% white charter school are "afraid of diversity." They are afraid that their child will not fit in or feel welcome. Come on.

You are right that one family wont make a difference, but when you look at a place like DCUM that has threads upon threads shaming people for going to any DCPS middle school besides Deal, any HS besides Banneker/Walls/Wilson, and conisder at least 50% of ES IB options as unusable because of "Test Scores" (which you are either unaware or are blissfully aware just equal demographics), you get this lack of diversity via group think.

But you are misdiagnosing the problem. Yes, if you just read DCUM, you would think people are moving to charters for MS because of test scores exclusively, as a dog whistle for race. That's how a lot of people on these boards think about it.

But if you spend time with actual parents discussing these issues, it's more complicated. It's one thing to invest in a DCPS ES, ignoring test scores because you understand they are a proxy for demographics. Great! We have already done that and love our ES.

But would you send your kid to a high school that doesn't even offer Calculus as a stand-alone class? Would you feel comfortable with your kid who loves reading and writing to be spending their MS and HS years in English classes where most of the class is testing below grade level? Are you comfortable with a school culture where truancy is high and most extra-curriculars are focused on athletics? These are all questions parents have to ask themselves. It's not just about test scores, though they play a role. It's looking at the schools as a whole and figuring out if you feel your kid could do well there, could get the preparation they need for college and adulthood there. It's sometimes a really hard question.

And thus many people who love their DCPS ES wind up in charters for MS, focused on a small group of charter and high performing HS, and looking into private options or moving to the suburbs. You can say it's racism or just white people afraid of "true diversity" (ignoring the many black families who make these exact same choices all the time). But doing so won't solve the problem, which is that many MS and HS in DC simply do not prepare their students for the next level of their educations. There are many reasons for that, and it's absolutely a chicken/egg issue because it's hard to impose these schools if people won't just sent their kids to them. But it's also hard to send your kids to a school like this when you feel their future is on the line.

I do not know what the answer is. I have learned not to be glib on these subjects because they are very, very tricky and cannot actually just be boiled down to people making racist or classist personal choices.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I swear, white people complain about everything! This is embarrassing! Homeschool your kids if you’re afraid to have them around a diverse group of kids.

People are actually talking about lack of diversity. A school that is 84% black, 8% white, 6% Latino, and 2% AAPI? Not diverse. This is like saying that a black family who chooses not to send their children to the 90% white charter school are "afraid of diversity." They are afraid that their child will not fit in or feel welcome. Come on.

There are no schools that are 90% white in DC, but lots that are 90-99% black. Just to clarify.

Is anyone on the thread confused about that? That's specifically why PP's complaint that white parents are "afraid to have [their kids] around a diverse group of kids" is weird. If you are a white parent in DC public schools (DCPS or charter) you, by definition, are comfortable with the idea of diversity in schools. Of course there are parents who gravitate towards the schools that are 60-70% white (which do exist) and if you want to target those parents for that choice, that's one thing. But generally the issue is just a parent not wanting their kid to be the only white kid in a class, or only one of two (we have been in this situation, FTR).

I have a friend in a different part of the country who I explained these dynamics to and she couldn't relate. Her kid goes to a diverse public school in another urban area that is about 30% white, 30% non-white Hispanic, and maybe 20% black. When she described the racial dynamics (most kids have at least one friend of another race, the school does a lot of multi-cultural events and it's not just head-nodding at different groups -- they are represented by students and staff and families at the events) I felt very jealous. That's what a truly diverse school would look like. But in DC, because so many white parents choose private or head to the suburbs, and there is a lot of self-segregation among POC groups, it's just not like that and probably never will be. You have to adjust your expectations as far as diverse environments.

Not fear but want my DC to have things in common with their peers and it just seems to be more cultural socioeconomic.

Also many of these schools that are inbound for the white kids are out of bounds for the other kids and so it’s still not a neighborhood school with the majority

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I swear, white people complain about everything! This is embarrassing! Homeschool your kids if you’re afraid to have them around a diverse group of kids.

People are actually talking about lack of diversity. A school that is 84% black, 8% white, 6% Latino, and 2% AAPI? Not diverse. This is like saying that a black family who chooses not to send their children to the 90% white charter school are "afraid of diversity." They are afraid that their child will not fit in or feel welcome. Come on.

There are no schools that are 90% white in DC, but lots that are 90-99% black. Just to clarify.

Is anyone on the thread confused about that? That's specifically why PP's complaint that white parents are "afraid to have [their kids] around a diverse group of kids" is weird. If you are a white parent in DC public schools (DCPS or charter) you, by definition, are comfortable with the idea of diversity in schools. Of course there are parents who gravitate towards the schools that are 60-70% white (which do exist) and if you want to target those parents for that choice, that's one thing. But generally the issue is just a parent not wanting their kid to be the only white kid in a class, or only one of two (we have been in this situation, FTR).

I have a friend in a different part of the country who I explained these dynamics to and she couldn't relate. Her kid goes to a diverse public school in another urban area that is about 30% white, 30% non-white Hispanic, and maybe 20% black. When she described the racial dynamics (most kids have at least one friend of another race, the school does a lot of multi-cultural events and it's not just head-nodding at different groups -- they are represented by students and staff and families at the events) I felt very jealous. That's what a truly diverse school would look like. But in DC, because so many white parents choose private or head to the suburbs, and there is a lot of self-segregation among POC groups, it's just not like that and probably never will be. You have to adjust your expectations as far as diverse environments.

Huh?
Deal, the whitest DCPS middle schook, is only 46% white, 28% black, 16% hispanic. https://www.dcschoolreportcard.org/schools/1-0405
Hardy is 40% black, 32% white, 18% hispanic. https://www.dcschoolreportcard.org/schools/1-0246/profile

Sounds exactly the same. I'm not sure where you live, but it sounds like you have small kids and don't actually know the profiles of DC schools.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I swear, white people complain about everything! This is embarrassing! Homeschool your kids if you’re afraid to have them around a diverse group of kids.

People are actually talking about lack of diversity. A school that is 84% black, 8% white, 6% Latino, and 2% AAPI? Not diverse. This is like saying that a black family who chooses not to send their children to the 90% white charter school are "afraid of diversity." They are afraid that their child will not fit in or feel welcome. Come on.

There are no schools that are 90% white in DC, but lots that are 90-99% black. Just to clarify.

Is anyone on the thread confused about that? That's specifically why PP's complaint that white parents are "afraid to have [their kids] around a diverse group of kids" is weird. If you are a white parent in DC public schools (DCPS or charter) you, by definition, are comfortable with the idea of diversity in schools. Of course there are parents who gravitate towards the schools that are 60-70% white (which do exist) and if you want to target those parents for that choice, that's one thing. But generally the issue is just a parent not wanting their kid to be the only white kid in a class, or only one of two (we have been in this situation, FTR).

I have a friend in a different part of the country who I explained these dynamics to and she couldn't relate. Her kid goes to a diverse public school in another urban area that is about 30% white, 30% non-white Hispanic, and maybe 20% black. When she described the racial dynamics (most kids have at least one friend of another race, the school does a lot of multi-cultural events and it's not just head-nodding at different groups -- they are represented by students and staff and families at the events) I felt very jealous. That's what a truly diverse school would look like. But in DC, because so many white parents choose private or head to the suburbs, and there is a lot of self-segregation among POC groups, it's just not like that and probably never will be. You have to adjust your expectations as far as diverse environments.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Charter schools were created by republicans to F with public schools. Don't overthink it.

+1 I'm kind of tickled by the idea that someone thinks they were created to help the underprivileged. They were created to weaken and siphon money out of public schools and into pockets like the DeVos's.

I suggest you read up on the history of DC. DC was ranked dead last by state as the worst public school in the country. Charters were created to provide families with new opportunities and educational model of learning. Charters created competition in the educational landscape. DC schools started improving because of this. Also the ward with the highest percentage of families choosing charters are the poorest ward which is 7 and 8. So yes the poor and underprivileged families are choosing charters because they have found their neighborhood schools to be lacking.

Lastly, charters are what is keeping middle class families in the city and contributing to the prosperity of the city with riding housing prices and thus taxes..

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I swear, white people complain about everything! This is embarrassing! Homeschool your kids if you’re afraid to have them around a diverse group of kids.

People are actually talking about lack of diversity. A school that is 84% black, 8% white, 6% Latino, and 2% AAPI? Not diverse. This is like saying that a black family who chooses not to send their children to the 90% white charter school are "afraid of diversity." They are afraid that their child will not fit in or feel welcome. Come on.

You are right that one family wont make a difference, but when you look at a place like DCUM that has threads upon threads shaming people for going to any DCPS middle school besides Deal, any HS besides Banneker/Walls/Wilson, and conisder at least 50% of ES IB options as unusable because of "Test Scores" (which you are either unaware or are blissfully aware just equal demographics), you get this lack of diversity via group think.

This is a great theoretical discussion, but the problem is when you actually have a 10 year old looking across the board "test scores" actually matter. And the stakes for academic achievement get higher. Rubber meets the road in middle and high school and its about more than just race.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I swear, white people complain about everything! This is embarrassing! Homeschool your kids if you’re afraid to have them around a diverse group of kids.

People are actually talking about lack of diversity. A school that is 84% black, 8% white, 6% Latino, and 2% AAPI? Not diverse. This is like saying that a black family who chooses not to send their children to the 90% white charter school are "afraid of diversity." They are afraid that their child will not fit in or feel welcome. Come on.

You are right that one family wont make a difference, but when you look at a place like DCUM that has threads upon threads shaming people for going to any DCPS middle school besides Deal, any HS besides Banneker/Walls/Wilson, and conisder at least 50% of ES IB options as unusable because of "Test Scores" (which you are either unaware or are blissfully aware just equal demographics), you get this lack of diversity via group think.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I swear, white people complain about everything! This is embarrassing! Homeschool your kids if you’re afraid to have them around a diverse group of kids.

People are actually talking about lack of diversity. A school that is 84% black, 8% white, 6% Latino, and 2% AAPI? Not diverse. This is like saying that a black family who chooses not to send their children to the 90% white charter school are "afraid of diversity." They are afraid that their child will not fit in or feel welcome. Come on.

There are no schools that are 90% white in DC, but lots that are 90-99% black. Just to clarify.