The role of the school is to properly educate the student. He is doing fine academically and in fact is gifted. No true concerns have been identified that implicate some kind of condition for which an accomodattion could be justified. OP never suggested what accomodation from the school district she thinks her child needs. If the child isn't doing homework on time, that is perhaps a lack of parental discipline. It isn't a disability and op doesn't say what accomodation she thinks the school could provide to force him to hand his homework in on time. The same thing for every other imagined problem her child has, all of which are commonplace none of which are disabilities and.none if which are claimed by OP to detract from his overall academic performance. She is suffering from some weird kind of munchausen by proxy.

OP, your IEP team is whack. It is not possible to have both an ISP and a 504 plan at the same time. If your kid already has an IEP, then she is already “labelled”. (Or maybe I’m whack If I did not understand your OP.)

An IEP legally requires 1) identifying a “disorder (like dyslexia, dyscalculia, ADHD, language disorder, etc.) and 2) showing that the disorder has an “adverse educational imp t (which does not have to be “bad grades”) and 3) need for special instruction. If the IEP team is noticing new issues and thinks your daughter needs accommodations (like extra time, copy of class notes, frequent reminders, etc.), then those accommodations are supposed to be added to the IEP.

If you have an IEP and your team is saying to you that they can only add the accommodations to a 504 plan, they are either extremely ignorant (best case scenario) or liars (worst case scenario). Sometimes teams try to move kids from an IEP to a 504 because they think the kid has accomplished goals and doesn’t need further support and they portray stepping down to a lower level of support as a positive next step (best case scenario). But, often the team is just tryinv to push the student down to a lower level of support that has fewer legal protections.

Please repost your question in Special Needs if you have more Qs about IEP v 504.

As far as getting an evaluation - as I said above, if your DC already has an IEP, she is “labelled” - you have to identify disorder to get an IEP, the disorder is a label. Your DH is right in part because of course labels don’t fully define people and their abilities. And society still has some stigma about these labels.

BUT, you are also right. if your DC already has an IEP, there’s a pretty high likelihood that that IEP rests on some pretty crappy testing and data. Schools don’t like to put a lot of effort into testing because it’s time and money. A full psychoeducational or neuropsychological exam, if you can afford it, it’s almost always better and more complete view of the student. labels can be helpful and some ways - A label can help us find peers with similar strengths and weaknesses, a label can provide access to treatment, a label can help us research our medical issues, etc.

I think knowledge is power. As a parent I want my kids to have as much knowledge about themselves as possible before they leave the nest. Maybe if your DH isn’t ready for a psychoeducational exam, you could convince him to at least go and visit with a psychologist (or educational advocate) who offers these kinds of exams to get more education about what kind of testing is typically done and what I can tell you about your child. Sometimes parents do better when they hear these issues from a doctor then from the other parent

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would go ahead and set it up and tell my husband to cancel it if he didn’t want it to happen.

Sometimes I think my husband argues against things just because it’s in his nature to play devil’s advocate and/or he thinks it will be too much work. I would set it up however you can so that the default/less-work-on-his-part option is to do your thing.

How much will it.cost? If it's free then sure why not. But the .what will OP do if her child psychologist tells her that there is nothing wrong with the child that a little more.parental attention to instilling a better work ethic and self discipline won't resolve?

Then she and her husband can be on the same page with their parenting.

I don’t know how much it costs, but it’s got to be cheaper than fighting all of the time, getting a divorce, and maintaining two separate households. Or screwing up your child’s education long term.

$5,000+ I would pay any amount if I had true concerns.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP being vague is not going to improve the communications issues with your spouse. What does "executive functioning issues" actually mean? It's a nonsense phrase that is so diffuse as to be meaningless. What specific skills or tasks or abilities do you feel your son to be deficient in respect to? What specific deficits we're identified by the IEP team and written up under 504? Example, the student is in a wheelchair and needs extra time to get from class to class as an accomodation. The child is dyslexic and needs extra time to complete times examinations. A 504 suggests some deficit was identified which does not rise to the level of a disability but does warrant some in school accomodation. I'm sure it doesn't say "the mother thinks the child child has executive functioning issues" in the IEP. There has to be more and it has to be much more specific of you want to die on this hill.

By executive functioning issues, I mean organization, planning, time management, and attention issues. Our child has an IEP for a gifted program. No 504 yet. The issues I mentioned were brought up by several different teachers over the years, and in particular, by the teacher of the gifted program, and written up in the IEP as well.

But OP, you still haven't explain in a specific fashion what you believe are your child's supposed deficits in "organization, planning, time management, and attention issues." Apparently he's not only above average as a student, he's gifted. Just because he doesn't study as hard as you want him to study, doesn't do the things you want the way you want him to do them, and perhaps isn't neurotically obsessed with being valedictorian doesn't mean he has any deficits in any of those still vague areas.

Wanting to play video games and getting Bs and C's instead of straight As doesn't mean he has any deficits in any of the areas you listed. Half assing his school work and extra curriculars doesn't mean that either even if you are a tiger mom and want him to aspire to Harvard Medical School. It just means he doesn't share your priorities.

When a parent falsely believes their child has a non existent deficit to the point of wanting authorities to officially label it, that's a form of munchausen by proxy.

OP, it actually sounds like you are.more in need of an evaluation of some kind then your child is.

Wow, what? These are issues that have also been brought up by his IEP team, and they have voiced concerns about them becoming issues as the grade levels get higher and the work more complex. It hasn't been much of an issue up to this point, because there is a lot of hand-holding at the lower grade levels for things like remembering to bring your homework home, or staying on task at school, and it also helps that our child is advanced academically.

If you want specifics, these are the things he struggles with and teachers have commented on:
- Forgetting to turn in assignment after completing it
- Forgetting to bring home homework
- Not starting on a long term project until a few days before
- Taking 10x longer to finish homework than his peers (who are not in the gifted program)
- Needing the teacher to constantly bring his focus back into the classroom
- Not finishing assignments on time
- Not finishing in-class tasks in the time allotted because of distraction or lack of focus
- A very messy, unorganized desk and backpack
- Daydreaming, drawing, playing with a zipper, playing with a lint ball during class time instead of participating

Apparently being a boy qualifies as a mental disorder. OP, my son is in a gifted program (tested in). He does all of these things. His teacher met with me and an OT to discuss his “issues” and I was kind of shocked that the district paid for two professionals to sit with me for an hour to discuss “strategies” to encourage my kid to be more careful, neat, not distracted, etc. I grew up in Europe and I am always touched by how purposeful American schools are in caring for children with disabilities, but I almost laughed that they are trying to “develop strategies to gently encourage [my son] to remember his homework”. I know it’s hard to believe in 2022, but not every curious and bright boy has a pathology.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would go ahead and set it up and tell my husband to cancel it if he didn’t want it to happen.

Sometimes I think my husband argues against things just because it’s in his nature to play devil’s advocate and/or he thinks it will be too much work. I would set it up however you can so that the default/less-work-on-his-part option is to do your thing.

How much will it.cost? If it's free then sure why not. But the .what will OP do if her child psychologist tells her that there is nothing wrong with the child that a little more.parental attention to instilling a better work ethic and self discipline won't resolve?

Look. If it’s too expensive, and her husband is opposed to it, then he can cancel.
I’m not saying to push through any resistance, just to change the default from doing nothing to getting the evaluation.

OP, your specific list is exactly what basically most really smart kids do, especially if the material isn't challenging.

Well, I was a high school valedictorian, college valedictorian, and did well in my Ivy grad program...I still work like this. It's more of a certain kind of thinker than a disability. Have you read up on things like DISC profiles, etc.? Your son sounds really gifted but just a different profile than teachers tend to want.

FWIW, I was bored in grad school so I took all my notes in rhyme -- for years.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would go ahead and set it up and tell my husband to cancel it if he didn’t want it to happen.

Sometimes I think my husband argues against things just because it’s in his nature to play devil’s advocate and/or he thinks it will be too much work. I would set it up however you can so that the default/less-work-on-his-part option is to do your thing.

How much will it.cost? If it's free then sure why not. But the .what will OP do if her child psychologist tells her that there is nothing wrong with the child that a little more.parental attention to instilling a better work ethic and self discipline won't resolve?

Then she and her husband can be on the same page with their parenting.

I don’t know how much it costs, but it’s got to be cheaper than fighting all of the time, getting a divorce, and maintaining two separate households. Or screwing up your child’s education long term.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would go ahead and set it up and tell my husband to cancel it if he didn’t want it to happen.

Sometimes I think my husband argues against things just because it’s in his nature to play devil’s advocate and/or he thinks it will be too much work. I would set it up however you can so that the default/less-work-on-his-part option is to do your thing.

How much will it.cost? If it's free then sure why not. But the .what will OP do if her child psychologist tells her that there is nothing wrong with the child that a little more.parental attention to instilling a better work ethic and self discipline won't resolve?

Then she has that information. Isn’t that good information to have?

Anonymous wrote:I would go ahead and set it up and tell my husband to cancel it if he didn’t want it to happen.

Sometimes I think my husband argues against things just because it’s in his nature to play devil’s advocate and/or he thinks it will be too much work. I would set it up however you can so that the default/less-work-on-his-part option is to do your thing.

How much will it.cost? If it's free then sure why not. But the .what will OP do if her child psychologist tells her that there is nothing wrong with the child that a little more.parental attention to instilling a better work ethic and self discipline won't resolve?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Absolutely get your child evaluated! Why would you not? There is clearly an issue. Would you rather not know what it is and just guess and hope that your kid doesn't struggle with school? Why would you not give your kid every advantage that you could (and that they need).

Our neuropsych evaluation did not require both parents to consent. DH agreed with testing so it wasn't an issue but his consent definitely wasn't required.

I have 2 kids with ADHD one also with learning disabilites. Our diagnoses are somewhat recent and we're finally realizing that DH almost certainly has it as well. He's getting evaluated soon.

DP - did you not read the question? Because her husband is dead set against it.

I feel like a lot of people on this thread are answering the question of "should an evaluation be done?" which is NOT the question. The question is - how do you handle this when your spouse disagrees?

How you responding such a disagreement is try to look objectively at the facts. The child is doing fine academically which is not in dispute. Op said it. The IEP team did not find any need for services. Getting a private professional to work up an evaluation to present to the district will cost money and would still require a factual basis for that professional to base the report on. What is the deficit and how is it negatively impacting the child's performance in school and what.sccomadation is being requested. No answer.from op. Daydreaming is not a disability. Being messy is not a disability. Missing assignments but not to the extent it has any discernable impact on the child's oerfosmce.in.school is not a disability. If the child lacks the self discipline.to.complete.some.assognmemtd on time, that is a parental issue no it a.school issue and not an special needs issue. Call g garden variety normal range goofing off a "lack of executive functioning" is nonsense as the IEP team did not.agree

I would go ahead and set it up and tell my husband to cancel it if he didn’t want it to happen.

Sometimes I think my husband argues against things just because it’s in his nature to play devil’s advocate and/or he thinks it will be too much work. I would set it up however you can so that the default/less-work-on-his-part option is to do your thing.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why do you need a 504? If the teachers are noticing it, can you just add executive organizational goals to the IEP?

We have these types of goals in my child's IEP.

I've never heard of having an IEP AND a 504. Usually it's one or the other, depending on what is needed to support the child. IEPs can encompass accommodations but 504s cannot include specialized instruction.

From what I know, the 504 is for certain in-classroom accommodations, like preferential seating, note-taking support, distraction-free areas, and I'm not sure what else.

These are in my child's IEP, every single one of them (although tbh the note-taking support has not been done very well). You don't need a separate 504 for these accommodations.

None of the specific things described are behavioral or cognitive deficits much less disabilities. Remember OP said her child does well in.school. OP never said anyone at the school told her there was any real problem. She said SHE believed there was a problem. Since there was no evidence of any objective problem, all the IEP team could suggest to her was to get her own 504 evaluation done if.she wanted.to press the issue further. Undoubtedly what is really happening here is that OP perceives she might be able to get her kid some kind of "edge" if she can get him classified and perhaps some accomodations like extra time on tests.

If he is unmotivated, a little lazy, a little sloppier than she would like, has poor study habits, doesn't turn his homework in on time,that's just poor work ethic and study habits. Yet he's doing well at school overall. So maybe this is just not the straight A student she wanted him to be. That doesn't mean he's disabled, doesn't mean anything is wrong with him at all.

If she wants to address what she considers his poor work ethic, what consequences has she imposed on him for turning
in homework late?

If the daydreaming bothers her so much I suppose she could ask for electroshock therapy but I don't think they do that kind of thing any more

Are all the loons out today? Read my OP. I was not the one who suggested looking into a 504, it was the school. I had to google to find out what that even was after our meeting.

The IEP team, in response to your concerns, did not recommend any special services under section 504, according to your first.post. Had they believed services were necessary, they would have recommended specific services or accomodatioms. But providing accomodations when unnecessary is expensive and a waste of the districts money. What you said you were.tokd is that if you still wanted to pursue the matter further, you could presumably pay a private professional to prodice an.exoert report to present to the district as.yoir.bssis for obtaining services. Most.likely they would have denied your request as they did not find any services necessary. You would then I suppose have the option of.hiring s special Ed lawyer to mitigate the issue before an ALJ. You would most.likely lose because.of.whst you said in your.foslrdt.post:. He is doing fine.academically. Your.own words. Your child is not in any way disabled based on anything you have posted here. Mor.i .need of special support services. Being a bit lazy in your opinion and.missing.some.deadlines yet still doing fine academically is well within the range of a normal students behavior. Having a messy backpack is not a disability. Daydreaming.is not a disability. Being told your options by the team when your unsubstantiated demamds that the district expend scarce.resources o .a child who clearly doesn't need them is simply fulfilling their legal obligation

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP being vague is not going to improve the communications issues with your spouse. What does "executive functioning issues" actually mean? It's a nonsense phrase that is so diffuse as to be meaningless. What specific skills or tasks or abilities do you feel your son to be deficient in respect to? What specific deficits we're identified by the IEP team and written up under 504? Example, the student is in a wheelchair and needs extra time to get from class to class as an accomodation. The child is dyslexic and needs extra time to complete times examinations. A 504 suggests some deficit was identified which does not rise to the level of a disability but does warrant some in school accomodation. I'm sure it doesn't say "the mother thinks the child child has executive functioning issues" in the IEP. There has to be more and it has to be much more specific of you want to die on this hill.

By executive functioning issues, I mean organization, planning, time management, and attention issues. Our child has an IEP for a gifted program. No 504 yet. The issues I mentioned were brought up by several different teachers over the years, and in particular, by the teacher of the gifted program, and written up in the IEP as well.

NP. OP, do you feel you know the teachers well enough to tell them frankly that you want an evaluation and supports, and your DH is very resistant, and to ask if they will explain to him why this is needed; why it doesn't bear a stigma; why it matters a LOT to get this going now, long before your kid is in high school (when various issues can become huge as the HS workload increases and students are expected to handle all their own time management etc.)?

In your shoes, I likely would: 1) Check if the pediatrician eval and letter you need can be gotten by just one parent. 2) If yes -- make that appointment and lump it with an annual exam or other visit. I hate to play games like that but if you DH goes ballistic that you had an eval done you at least can say truthfully that as DC was going for X reason anyway, you said yes to an eval. Probably they're two different visits, alas. 3) Get DC's teachers and counselor on board to explain this to DH. Sometimes people hear a third party say things much better than they can hear the same things from a spouse--unfortunately. I'd do step 3 no matter what you decide about getting the eval done without DH's OK.

I am concerned though that any DH and father who is so adamantly against just an evaluation is going to be angry that you are telling other people, even teachers, that you want more evaluation, you feel your child has issues, etc. Your DH sounds old-school--does he not "believe" in IEPs and 504s etc. and has just grudgingly gone along so far, but says he's done? There are some adults who still think that "If DC just works harder and isn't so lazy it'll be fine, and I don't want some diagnosis labeling my kid" etc. Is your DH like that? He might be very misinformed, or listening to relatives or friends who are telling him a "label" dooms his kid.

Anonymous wrote:Absolutely get your child evaluated! Why would you not? There is clearly an issue. Would you rather not know what it is and just guess and hope that your kid doesn't struggle with school? Why would you not give your kid every advantage that you could (and that they need).

Our neuropsych evaluation did not require both parents to consent. DH agreed with testing so it wasn't an issue but his consent definitely wasn't required.

I have 2 kids with ADHD one also with learning disabilites. Our diagnoses are somewhat recent and we're finally realizing that DH almost certainly has it as well. He's getting evaluated soon.

DP - did you not read the question? Because her husband is dead set against it.

I feel like a lot of people on this thread are answering the question of "should an evaluation be done?" which is NOT the question. The question is - how do you handle this when your spouse disagrees?

Absolutely get your child evaluated! Why would you not? There is clearly an issue. Would you rather not know what it is and just guess and hope that your kid doesn't struggle with school? Why would you not give your kid every advantage that you could (and that they need).

Our neuropsych evaluation did not require both parents to consent. DH agreed with testing so it wasn't an issue but his consent definitely wasn't required.

I have 2 kids with ADHD one also with learning disabilites. Our diagnoses are somewhat recent and we're finally realizing that DH almost certainly has it as well. He's getting evaluated soon.