I was a teenage goth. Being able to express myself in that way was good for my mental health.

Definitely went through a goth phase in the 80s. Morrissey and the Cure were my favorites as well as other alternative bands. I dated a guy because the first time I met him, he was dressed like Michael Smith from the Cure (he was heading to a Cure concert).

I see goth and other styles as going through a phase; pushing against mainstream ideology. Finding a way to be different from the others who look exactly the same. I was not a girly girl, was not into girls (as friends) who were way into their looks and appearance because to me, that was very self centered and shallow. I was also attracted to the moodier, thinking-type of guy. Def not into the jocks or preppy guy in those days.

When I look back, yeah, maybe I was borderline depressed but I was a good kid, made good grades and appreciated people for who they were and not how they looked.

No

I was mainly into Goth for the music and the fantastic clothing options. Media influences were Beetlejuice (the cartoon!), Edward Scissorhands, The Crow, The Sandman comics, and Urban Fantasy novels from before undersexed housewives got their hands on the genre (SERRated Edge, Charles DeLint, etc).

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The above suggestions are kind of funny to me.

My mother took my goth phase in style - I could wear black lipstick (actually for me it was extreme black eye makeup) when I was not with her or the grandparents. So, fine for school. Same for the "weird" clothes - no fishnets at Sunday dinner at Grammys.

I grew out of it in about 4 years. She DID like the fact that all the thrifting was very cheap!

I know now that I was depressed, but I think that the mild push back from her was actually better than just accepting my rebellion - kept it in perspective. I met great friends during that time period.

An added bonus from a parent's view, is that most of them were straight edge. The parties I went to as a more "normal" teen with the jocks and the popular kids were filled with booze and drugs.

+100 hahaha I hung out with the straight edge kids too and ironically we were the good ones

My friends and I were riot grrrls and didn't give into sex pressure to be sexually active because we knew we controlled our bodies and sought out partners who respected us

DC had a big riot grrrl scene!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m all for self expression, but I’d like to understand the motivation behind the goth/punk aesthetic as my teenager made an abrupt change in her style during Covid while experiencing severe depression and suicidal ideation. Prior to this change in mental health and styling she was a low maintenance, casual dresser who took pride in her hair and makeup. She now seems to be intentionally trying to look intimidating and “extreme” while trying to act like she doesn’t GAF (but she does ).

Any BTDT experience and guidance would be appreciated. I want to be supportive, but I also want her mentally healthy and don’t want to keep her in an unhealthy mental place by encouraging her fashion choices that seem to be reflecting her inner turmoil.

Is your DD very active on social media, such as TikTok or Instagram?

Yeah, sorry, you can’t blame either goth or punk on TikTok. I hate it with a passion, but kids were doing all this long before Al Gore invented the interwebs. In fact, kids dressing like this today are probably rebelling in part against the homogenized Instagram, VSCO-Girl culture.

I’m the one who posted the photos on p. 2.

And no, I did not blame DD’s style on TikTok - you read too much into my question. No one asked, but the style we lived in the 80s was legit pre-TikTok.

I asked about TikTik because that platform contributes to teen suicide (among all the other evil things it does intentionally and unintentionally).

I hope someone finds a way to annihilate TikTok and erase it from memory.

Anonymous wrote:So I don’t know anything about this, but I asked my daughter the other day how & why “Emo” kids become depressed (she had said they were), and she told me they start hanging out with other Emo kids who influence them into negative self thinking, they listen to depressing music, they stay in their bedrooms and don’t go outside a lot, they read depressing things on their phones, and don’t exercise. So, I don’t personally know…but just passing this on from an 8th grader’s perspective.

Depressing, pessimistic music definitely plays a part.

I listened to a lot of Morrissey in HS and undergrad. Too much of it.

Im indian american. I embraced punk and grunge in the 90s— fist the music, then the look. I went to a prep school with a dress code and would be sent to change often. For me it was the music which was amazing and also needing to not fit in. My tween daughter is into the look now, but i feel without the music and the culture/- diy, riot grrl style feminism, the music—it’s posing. So ive given her all my 90s cds and insistd she listens to them if she wants to wear the (vintage) t shirt. Shes ok with it so far, but she’s 12 so it’s more superficial. I wish i could just subscribe to Sassy magazine!

I was friends with some kids who went through a goth phase and found them really friendly and more relatable. This was in the 90s. Some of them went a bit further than others, but it was definitely an outward expression of more emotional kids (hence “emo). Emotional =\= suicidal, though certainly there is an overlap.

I have some friend with some goth kids and generally them seem to take it in stride, accepting it to be a phase. A lot of the kids have some thing that sets them apart than mainstream stereotypes, a disability or weight struggles. I can see the goth thing as being a way to seek agency for the teens.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The above suggestions are kind of funny to me.

My mother took my goth phase in style - I could wear black lipstick (actually for me it was extreme black eye makeup) when I was not with her or the grandparents. So, fine for school. Same for the "weird" clothes - no fishnets at Sunday dinner at Grammys.

I grew out of it in about 4 years. She DID like the fact that all the thrifting was very cheap!

I know now that I was depressed, but I think that the mild push back from her was actually better than just accepting my rebellion - kept it in perspective. I met great friends during that time period.

An added bonus from a parent's view, is that most of them were straight edge. The parties I went to as a more "normal" teen with the jocks and the popular kids were filled with booze and drugs.

+100 hahaha I hung out with the straight edge kids too and ironically we were the good ones

My friends and I were riot grrrls and didn't give into sex pressure to be sexually active because we knew we controlled our bodies and sought out partners who respected us

Straight edge - for those unfamiliar - means absolutely no drugs or alcohol polluting your body. Not a terrible outlook for a teen! Have only heard the term straightedge among punk friends.

BTW - skinhead does NOT universally mean racist; i knew numerous Black and brown skin skinheads, and it’s roots lie in early Ska music (ie Gwen Stefanni) culture.

JESUS WEPT

I stayed in this thread to post pretty much the same thing. Gwen Stefani (and you probably mean No Doubt really because her solo stuff is no where near it) is NOT early ska. Desmond Dekker, The Skatalites etc. are early ska. 1st wave in fact. Then came the second wave (The Specials, The Selecter etc.) and so on. No Doubt... no. They don't make any waves on the ska scale.

But yes, there are non-racist skinheads (Google SHARPS for example).

I was a goth/new wave/punk kid. I still wear all black. Still listen to goth (old and new) and all of the music I grew up listening to in the 70's and 80's and then the 90's, 2000's to today (gasp, I still listen to new music and see concerts). I'm a successful Vice President. Dressing "goth" does not mean your kid is depressed, suicidal or an outcast - this thread however is depressing with all of it's if your kid doesnt look like a jock or cheerleader there is something wrong nonsense. Some kids just don't want to march to the beat of anyone else's drum from the music they listen to, to the way they dress.

Now if your child is suicidal or depressed (and NO listening to The Cure doesn't automatically mean they're depressed) it shouldn't matter if they're wearing a pink top or a black one. Get them help.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m all for self expression, but I’d like to understand the motivation behind the goth/punk aesthetic as my teenager made an abrupt change in her style during Covid while experiencing severe depression and suicidal ideation. Prior to this change in mental health and styling she was a low maintenance, casual dresser who took pride in her hair and makeup. She now seems to be intentionally trying to look intimidating and “extreme” while trying to act like she doesn’t GAF (but she does ).

Any BTDT experience and guidance would be appreciated. I want to be supportive, but I also want her mentally healthy and don’t want to keep her in an unhealthy mental place by encouraging her fashion choices that seem to be reflecting her inner turmoil.

Is your DD very active on social media, such as TikTok or Instagram?

Yeah, sorry, you can’t blame either goth or punk on TikTok. I hate it with a passion, but kids were doing all this long before Al Gore invented the interwebs. In fact, kids dressing like this today are probably rebelling in part against the homogenized Instagram, VSCO-Girl culture.

(I hate TikTok, I mean. Goth and punk are a perfectly fine method of expressing yourself, in my book.)

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m all for self expression, but I’d like to understand the motivation behind the goth/punk aesthetic as my teenager made an abrupt change in her style during Covid while experiencing severe depression and suicidal ideation. Prior to this change in mental health and styling she was a low maintenance, casual dresser who took pride in her hair and makeup. She now seems to be intentionally trying to look intimidating and “extreme” while trying to act like she doesn’t GAF (but she does ).

Any BTDT experience and guidance would be appreciated. I want to be supportive, but I also want her mentally healthy and don’t want to keep her in an unhealthy mental place by encouraging her fashion choices that seem to be reflecting her inner turmoil.

Is your DD very active on social media, such as TikTok or Instagram?

Yeah, sorry, you can’t blame either goth or punk on TikTok. I hate it with a passion, but kids were doing all this long before Al Gore invented the interwebs. In fact, kids dressing like this today are probably rebelling in part against the homogenized Instagram, VSCO-Girl culture.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m all for self expression, but I’d like to understand the motivation behind the goth/punk aesthetic as my teenager made an abrupt change in her style during Covid while experiencing severe depression and suicidal ideation. Prior to this change in mental health and styling she was a low maintenance, casual dresser who took pride in her hair and makeup. She now seems to be intentionally trying to look intimidating and “extreme” while trying to act like she doesn’t GAF (but she does ).

Any BTDT experience and guidance would be appreciated. I want to be supportive, but I also want her mentally healthy and don’t want to keep her in an unhealthy mental place by encouraging her fashion choices that seem to be reflecting her inner turmoil.

TBH, I thought the guys were hot. If I wanted to get with the gothy-punk guys, I had to be a gothy-punk girl. Also, I hated heels and loved wearing combat boots and striped tights, so that was all good.

Oh yeah, I thought the boys in black lipstick and nail polish were so hot (honestly, most of them were pretty nice, too).

I was borderline goth back in the late 80s. I mostly got into it because I loved the music, liked the vaguely Victorian aesthetic, and - as noted above - thought the boys were hot. I wasn’t depressed or rebellious, just expressing what appealed to me at that point in my life. My parents had been fairly rebellious hippies in their day, so they took it in stride since I wasn’t getting involved in alcohol/drugs and my grades and mental health were good. My style now is ridiculously preppy, haha.

Of course some teens embrace goth subcultures/style because of mental health or other problems. In some cases, this might be a good thing if a teen finds a supportive group of friends who happen to share the same interest. Really, IME the goth kids were normal kids like any other HS group - they just had cooler taste in music and clothes.
But I can see how it could also contribute to darker moods (some of the music is legit depressing). I think it’s best to keep any eye on your daughter but not criticize or discourage her new goth persona *unless* you see evidence that it might be making her feel worse.

Anonymous wrote:I’m all for self expression, but I’d like to understand the motivation behind the goth/punk aesthetic as my teenager made an abrupt change in her style during Covid while experiencing severe depression and suicidal ideation. Prior to this change in mental health and styling she was a low maintenance, casual dresser who took pride in her hair and makeup. She now seems to be intentionally trying to look intimidating and “extreme” while trying to act like she doesn’t GAF (but she does ).

Any BTDT experience and guidance would be appreciated. I want to be supportive, but I also want her mentally healthy and don’t want to keep her in an unhealthy mental place by encouraging her fashion choices that seem to be reflecting her inner turmoil.

TBH, I thought the guys were hot. If I wanted to get with the gothy-punk guys, I had to be a gothy-punk girl. Also, I hated heels and loved wearing combat boots and striped tights, so that was all good.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The above suggestions are kind of funny to me.

My mother took my goth phase in style - I could wear black lipstick (actually for me it was extreme black eye makeup) when I was not with her or the grandparents. So, fine for school. Same for the "weird" clothes - no fishnets at Sunday dinner at Grammys.

I grew out of it in about 4 years. She DID like the fact that all the thrifting was very cheap!

I know now that I was depressed, but I think that the mild push back from her was actually better than just accepting my rebellion - kept it in perspective. I met great friends during that time period.

An added bonus from a parent's view, is that most of them were straight edge. The parties I went to as a more "normal" teen with the jocks and the popular kids were filled with booze and drugs.

+100 hahaha I hung out with the straight edge kids too and ironically we were the good ones

My friends and I were riot grrrls and didn't give into sex pressure to be sexually active because we knew we controlled our bodies and sought out partners who respected us

Straight edge - for those unfamiliar - means absolutely no drugs or alcohol polluting your body. Not a terrible outlook for a teen! Have only heard the term straightedge among punk friends.

BTW - skinhead does NOT universally mean racist; i knew numerous Black and brown skin skinheads, and it’s roots lie in early Ska music (ie Gwen Stefanni) culture.

JESUS WEPT