Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m a mother of 4. I get it, op.

But the greatest gift you can give your kids is not being a financial burden to them as you age. You should focus on buying a little home and building your retirement and savings.

I posted about buying a home and I agree with this. I’m glad you’re ok with not helping your kids pay for college but I wouldn’t be. DH and I spent 15 years saving and paying off 100K of student loans before we had kids ajd could buy a house. Student loans really hurt us for the majority of our adult years as we lived on such a tight budget we could not do the things many of our working peers could do because every month we were spending upwards of 800 on loan and interest payments. Student loans are an albatross for your kids - we would have even married and had kids earlier had we not been so fiscally strapped. At a minimum you should be contributing to your retirement accounts and have college funds set up and have at least 4-6 months of savings in cash plus more if you’re being financially responsible. Your budget and lifestyle don’t sound like you have economic stability. Can you absorb a financial shock? Don’t you want to give your kids better than you had? I don’t know about you but it’s important to me for my kids to have greater economic security than I had. I got through college on used clothes from my friends, fast food/freezer meals, and Pell grants and I want more for my kids.

OP here. We have financial stability. We save over 20% of our income. We have emergency savings, retirement savings, TSP, etc. At this point in our lives I prefer building up our savings and living simply, renting (no 200K+ down payment), and waiting until we really want to buy a home before we do it. Not because random other people think it is necessary for a growing family.
I do think eventually we'll buy. Like, maybe when the oldest is in high school. We should have a better idea of where we'd want to live long-term at that point.
I'm 100% not interested in buying a home in the next 5 years at least.

I get it that to many people, that's the #1 financial move you must make after when you're financially stable.
I also have friends with 2 young daughters close in age, who have separate rooms, complain about not having much space in their 4 bedroom row house with a finished basement which is used as a massive playroom.
Another family of 5 in a row house complaining about wanting to move to TX so they can have a bigger house.
I'm so not of that mindset.
My 2nd oldest brother lives in the Midwest with his wife in a tiny home they built. Honestly at some point if we wanted our own home we'd probably have someone like him build us a little home on our own land.
But, again, that's not in the near future. More likely 10-20 years from now. We're happy where we are (next to one of the best DC elementary schools) and have no desire to buy here anytime soon.

I have 3 kids, and would love a 4th, but I’m leaning towards not. My main reasons are that I think the benefit of the 4th kid is mostly for me (and my DH), and less of a benefit for my 3 kids now. If we don’t have a 4th there is more space in our house for them, more individual attention from parents, more money for my kids to do activities and to help pay for college/grad school, we’ll have more $ to travel and will be able to take cooler trips sooner, etc etc. My kids already have two siblings, so it’s not like they are missing out on that if we decide to have a 4th. Having a 4th seems like a purely selfish decision by the parents who love having a new baby and enjoy getting to know another new person. I still love the idea of a 4th, but I can’t get past the idea that it really isn’t what is best for my existing children.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If the security of owning your own is a goal then I would not have a fourth.

Current average cost of raising a child to age 17 in the USA is $237,000. Can you manage to pay $1 million just to get your kids through their junior years of HS? Right now you’re facing fronting more than $700k just to do that with the three you already have.

On two fed salaries doing that and owning a home is going to be basically impossible. I’d stick with three and be able to do some of the things having a fourth will make impossible or very challenging (modest vacations, summer camp, travel sport team if one is talented).

Owning (or renting) a larger home is already included into the cost of raising a child, so most of the cost is already in. Or do you think that feeding and clothing a kid costs over $10K/year, on average?

Bless your heart if you think the only expenses in raising a child are rent, food and clothing

For some families it is - no activities, no extra and just the basics. Kids pay for their own college. They also get very little 1-1 attention and siblings are extra parents.

OP here. I hadn't engaged in this conversation yet because these cost calculations just don't resonate with me. Like, we probably spend money so differently than others so I just don't think like this. We have very low housing and childcare costs. Since we never bought a home and live small, our monthly living expenses are probably way lower than comparable families in the DMV.
- never paid for daycare (one year of cooperative play program run by DC DPR, then free PreK
- baby is at home with us while we WFH with split schedules.
- make our own food, breastfeed, get hand me down baby clothes, so diapers are basically the only increase in expenses with the addition of Baby #3
- get a lot of hand me downs from a cousin's kids, so I only buy kid clothes when really necessary
- we do take a local vacation once a year which is again, not a huge expense since it's a 3.5 hour drive away, we enjoy a national park
- and... Yes our kids will likely get scholarships to college, no plans to pay for theirs. This is what DH and I did, we don't really expect to pay their school.

DP--OP, it sounds like you live a much more minimalist and different lifestyle than much of DCUM (though not different than other parts of this country and the world) and that's great. One thing to consider, which I haven't seen you raise, is what if something goes wrong. What if one of your kids has a medical or other special need that is expensive or really throws off your schedules? What of one of you gets sick or changes and can't be as hyperfunctional as you both are? My DH had a medical event happen at 44 and while it hasn't completely altered our lives, it's been very challenging and limits his capacity in ways we couldn't have anticipated.

All of which is to say: it's fine to leave yourselves some breathing room. Keep in mind that as kids get older their needs change, and it can be harder to be as minimalist when your kids start becoming independent people. My oldest is 10 and while it's easier in many ways having older kids, there are other considerations than when they were really little. Never mind that college costs SO much more than it did when you and your DH attended--there are plenty of other reasons to not keep having kids, as great as they are.

Thank you. Yes, DH & I come from very humble beginnings so for us, to have a lovely place to live in one of the nicest neighborhoods in DC, even if that means having kids share a room/not having our own yard, etc... We are super grateful for what we have.

You raise a good point. On the one hand, I wouldn't want to live in fear of an unexpected event up-ending our lives, as you can never really plan for that.
But, I do think I have bore the brunt of having children, by the fact that I'm the one going through pregnancy, BFing, losing my abdominal muscles, etc. (at least until I put in the work to get back in shape), and I think this is the area I need to really think about. I'm appreciative of DH when he says that we should focus on my health first. We'd love to have more children.
But maybe we could look into fostering at a later date if we really feel the urge. I know there are so many children in need out there.

PP you're quoting and you're welcome.

I didn't mean live in fear so much as be practical. Our family doesn't live in fear, but part of our comfort is knowing that whatever happens, we have enough resources (in part through various kinds of insurance) to handle whatever may be thrown at us. No one knows what the future holds, so we do the best with what we have.

Again, thinking longer term is important. Little kids get bigger and have different needs. And, yes, your health matters. I had my three between 35 and 40 and am still strong and fit and about the same size I was pre-kids (I'm 45 now, so aging starts to play a role).

In any case, good luck! I really love having three, and am glad we stopped when we did, much as I know we'd have loved a fourth.

OP sounds like it would be the right decision for you which is the only important thing to consider. I had extraordinarily difficult pregnancies and still had three children because I felt like I wanted that. And in the third pregnancy I was sure beyond all possible doubt that I was D O N E. If you are yearning for one more, that is probably right for you, even though for me, stopping at 3 was an absolute no brainer!

Anonymous wrote:Yikes, I guess people who aren't able to have more than one child suck then because siblings are the greatest gift?

I originally wanted 5 kids but I've seen how my cousin's family of 7 is and how other large families are. Older kids are parentified, discipline goes out the window after about the 3rd kid, no one gets enough attention or resources, etc. And these are well-off homeowners. Not to mention the toll on your uterus. My cousin had to have a hysterectomy after having 5 kids one right after the other.

There's always one

Anonymous wrote:I’m a mother of 4. I get it, op.

But the greatest gift you can give your kids is not being a financial burden to them as you age. You should focus on buying a little home and building your retirement and savings.

I posted about buying a home and I agree with this. I’m glad you’re ok with not helping your kids pay for college but I wouldn’t be. DH and I spent 15 years saving and paying off 100K of student loans before we had kids ajd could buy a house. Student loans really hurt us for the majority of our adult years as we lived on such a tight budget we could not do the things many of our working peers could do because every month we were spending upwards of 800 on loan and interest payments. Student loans are an albatross for your kids - we would have even married and had kids earlier had we not been so fiscally strapped. At a minimum you should be contributing to your retirement accounts and have college funds set up and have at least 4-6 months of savings in cash plus more if you’re being financially responsible. Your budget and lifestyle don’t sound like you have economic stability. Can you absorb a financial shock? Don’t you want to give your kids better than you had? I don’t know about you but it’s important to me for my kids to have greater economic security than I had. I got through college on used clothes from my friends, fast food/freezer meals, and Pell grants and I want more for my kids.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If the security of owning your own is a goal then I would not have a fourth.

Current average cost of raising a child to age 17 in the USA is $237,000. Can you manage to pay $1 million just to get your kids through their junior years of HS? Right now you’re facing fronting more than $700k just to do that with the three you already have.

On two fed salaries doing that and owning a home is going to be basically impossible. I’d stick with three and be able to do some of the things having a fourth will make impossible or very challenging (modest vacations, summer camp, travel sport team if one is talented).

Owning (or renting) a larger home is already included into the cost of raising a child, so most of the cost is already in. Or do you think that feeding and clothing a kid costs over $10K/year, on average?

Bless your heart if you think the only expenses in raising a child are rent, food and clothing

For some families it is - no activities, no extra and just the basics. Kids pay for their own college. They also get very little 1-1 attention and siblings are extra parents.

OP here. I hadn't engaged in this conversation yet because these cost calculations just don't resonate with me. Like, we probably spend money so differently than others so I just don't think like this. We have very low housing and childcare costs. Since we never bought a home and live small, our monthly living expenses are probably way lower than comparable families in the DMV.
- never paid for daycare (one year of cooperative play program run by DC DPR, then free PreK
- baby is at home with us while we WFH with split schedules.
- make our own food, breastfeed, get hand me down baby clothes, so diapers are basically the only increase in expenses with the addition of Baby #3
- get a lot of hand me downs from a cousin's kids, so I only buy kid clothes when really necessary
- we do take a local vacation once a year which is again, not a huge expense since it's a 3.5 hour drive away, we enjoy a national park
- and... Yes our kids will likely get scholarships to college, no plans to pay for theirs. This is what DH and I did, we don't really expect to pay their school.

DP--OP, it sounds like you live a much more minimalist and different lifestyle than much of DCUM (though not different than other parts of this country and the world) and that's great. One thing to consider, which I haven't seen you raise, is what if something goes wrong. What if one of your kids has a medical or other special need that is expensive or really throws off your schedules? What of one of you gets sick or changes and can't be as hyperfunctional as you both are? My DH had a medical event happen at 44 and while it hasn't completely altered our lives, it's been very challenging and limits his capacity in ways we couldn't have anticipated.

All of which is to say: it's fine to leave yourselves some breathing room. Keep in mind that as kids get older their needs change, and it can be harder to be as minimalist when your kids start becoming independent people. My oldest is 10 and while it's easier in many ways having older kids, there are other considerations than when they were really little. Never mind that college costs SO much more than it did when you and your DH attended--there are plenty of other reasons to not keep having kids, as great as they are.

Thank you. Yes, DH & I come from very humble beginnings so for us, to have a lovely place to live in one of the nicest neighborhoods in DC, even if that means having kids share a room/not having our own yard, etc... We are super grateful for what we have.

You raise a good point. On the one hand, I wouldn't want to live in fear of an unexpected event up-ending our lives, as you can never really plan for that.
But, I do think I have bore the brunt of having children, by the fact that I'm the one going through pregnancy, BFing, losing my abdominal muscles, etc. (at least until I put in the work to get back in shape), and I think this is the area I need to really think about. I'm appreciative of DH when he says that we should focus on my health first. We'd love to have more children.
But maybe we could look into fostering at a later date if we really feel the urge. I know there are so many children in need out there.

OP you may be happy with renting but that situation may become Unstable someday and then can you afford a comparable home or will you be totally priced out of the rental market? Are you truly aware just how much money you are flushing down the toilet each month by renting, especially in the DMV? That is money you NEVER get back, versus owning when you pay yourself each month. DH and I scrimped and saved for 15 years to buy our first home and how much money we wasted in rent literally nauseates me as it is the cost of a home in many markets outside of DC. Now we finally bought and have a monster mortgage, but we get to write the taxes off and we are building equity so every month we are literally paying ourselves. Our home had also appreciated 40K since we bought less than a year ago. We bought for ourselves but also for our kids as we hope to build generational wealth for them. Home ownership is really important if you want to be economically independent in your later years. If you rent for 30 years you will have nothing at the end of it. If you bought a house, you own an asset you can sell and the money is yours. Don’t convince yourself buying a home is not
Important just because you think you can’t afford it—it’s foolish thinking and you aren’t serving your long term financial interests or your kids by not making it a priority. Post this on the finance thread and have people explain it to you if you think I’m full for crap.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If the security of owning your own is a goal then I would not have a fourth.

Current average cost of raising a child to age 17 in the USA is $237,000. Can you manage to pay $1 million just to get your kids through their junior years of HS? Right now you’re facing fronting more than $700k just to do that with the three you already have.

On two fed salaries doing that and owning a home is going to be basically impossible. I’d stick with three and be able to do some of the things having a fourth will make impossible or very challenging (modest vacations, summer camp, travel sport team if one is talented).

Owning (or renting) a larger home is already included into the cost of raising a child, so most of the cost is already in. Or do you think that feeding and clothing a kid costs over $10K/year, on average?

Bless your heart if you think the only expenses in raising a child are rent, food and clothing

For some families it is - no activities, no extra and just the basics. Kids pay for their own college. They also get very little 1-1 attention and siblings are extra parents.

OP here. I hadn't engaged in this conversation yet because these cost calculations just don't resonate with me. Like, we probably spend money so differently than others so I just don't think like this. We have very low housing and childcare costs. Since we never bought a home and live small, our monthly living expenses are probably way lower than comparable families in the DMV.
- never paid for daycare (one year of cooperative play program run by DC DPR, then free PreK
- baby is at home with us while we WFH with split schedules.
- make our own food, breastfeed, get hand me down baby clothes, so diapers are basically the only increase in expenses with the addition of Baby #3
- get a lot of hand me downs from a cousin's kids, so I only buy kid clothes when really necessary
- we do take a local vacation once a year which is again, not a huge expense since it's a 3.5 hour drive away, we enjoy a national park
- and... Yes our kids will likely get scholarships to college, no plans to pay for theirs. This is what DH and I did, we don't really expect to pay their school.

DP--OP, it sounds like you live a much more minimalist and different lifestyle than much of DCUM (though not different than other parts of this country and the world) and that's great. One thing to consider, which I haven't seen you raise, is what if something goes wrong. What if one of your kids has a medical or other special need that is expensive or really throws off your schedules? What of one of you gets sick or changes and can't be as hyperfunctional as you both are? My DH had a medical event happen at 44 and while it hasn't completely altered our lives, it's been very challenging and limits his capacity in ways we couldn't have anticipated.

All of which is to say: it's fine to leave yourselves some breathing room. Keep in mind that as kids get older their needs change, and it can be harder to be as minimalist when your kids start becoming independent people. My oldest is 10 and while it's easier in many ways having older kids, there are other considerations than when they were really little. Never mind that college costs SO much more than it did when you and your DH attended--there are plenty of other reasons to not keep having kids, as great as they are.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If the security of owning your own is a goal then I would not have a fourth.

Current average cost of raising a child to age 17 in the USA is $237,000. Can you manage to pay $1 million just to get your kids through their junior years of HS? Right now you’re facing fronting more than $700k just to do that with the three you already have.

On two fed salaries doing that and owning a home is going to be basically impossible. I’d stick with three and be able to do some of the things having a fourth will make impossible or very challenging (modest vacations, summer camp, travel sport team if one is talented).

Owning (or renting) a larger home is already included into the cost of raising a child, so most of the cost is already in. Or do you think that feeding and clothing a kid costs over $10K/year, on average?

Bless your heart if you think the only expenses in raising a child are rent, food and clothing

For some families it is - no activities, no extra and just the basics. Kids pay for their own college. They also get very little 1-1 attention and siblings are extra parents.

OP here. I hadn't engaged in this conversation yet because these cost calculations just don't resonate with me. Like, we probably spend money so differently than others so I just don't think like this. We have very low housing and childcare costs. Since we never bought a home and live small, our monthly living expenses are probably way lower than comparable families in the DMV.
- never paid for daycare (one year of cooperative play program run by DC DPR, then free PreK
- baby is at home with us while we WFH with split schedules.
- make our own food, breastfeed, get hand me down baby clothes, so diapers are basically the only increase in expenses with the addition of Baby #3
- get a lot of hand me downs from a cousin's kids, so I only buy kid clothes when really necessary
- we do take a local vacation once a year which is again, not a huge expense since it's a 3.5 hour drive away, we enjoy a national park
- and... Yes our kids will likely get scholarships to college, no plans to pay for theirs. This is what DH and I did, we don't really expect to pay their school.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If the security of owning your own is a goal then I would not have a fourth.

Current average cost of raising a child to age 17 in the USA is $237,000. Can you manage to pay $1 million just to get your kids through their junior years of HS? Right now you’re facing fronting more than $700k just to do that with the three you already have.

On two fed salaries doing that and owning a home is going to be basically impossible. I’d stick with three and be able to do some of the things having a fourth will make impossible or very challenging (modest vacations, summer camp, travel sport team if one is talented).

Owning (or renting) a larger home is already included into the cost of raising a child, so most of the cost is already in. Or do you think that feeding and clothing a kid costs over $10K/year, on average?

Bless your heart if you think the only expenses in raising a child are rent, food and clothing

For some families it is - no activities, no extra and just the basics. Kids pay for their own college. They also get very little 1-1 attention and siblings are extra parents.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If the security of owning your own is a goal then I would not have a fourth.

Current average cost of raising a child to age 17 in the USA is $237,000. Can you manage to pay $1 million just to get your kids through their junior years of HS? Right now you’re facing fronting more than $700k just to do that with the three you already have.

On two fed salaries doing that and owning a home is going to be basically impossible. I’d stick with three and be able to do some of the things having a fourth will make impossible or very challenging (modest vacations, summer camp, travel sport team if one is talented).

Owning (or renting) a larger home is already included into the cost of raising a child, so most of the cost is already in. Or do you think that feeding and clothing a kid costs over $10K/year, on average?

Bless your heart if you think the only expenses in raising a child are rent, food and clothing

Anonymous wrote:I realized I basically wrote all the reasons for having a 4th child, but never really expressed why I am unsure.
The main reason is my health. Like, I am healthy, never had any complications other than one quickly-treated bout of mastitis... But dang pregnancy is hard. Like, really hard. It's all worth it when you look up and see a smiling, happy fat 5 month old, a funny, silly, adorable 2 year old, an intelligent, creative, intense 4 year old... But man those 9 months creating them are rough!!!! I like having the kids close in age because I kind of feel like my body is not fully my own in this span of 5ish years, with the pregnancies, breastfeeding, etc... And I look forward to the day when we are DONE and I can have my body back, really get back in shape again, make decisions for myself without concern of how they might affect a fetus or breastfeeding baby because what I do with my body directly affects them...
So anyway, that is the one issue that holds me back. Go through it all again, to then have another adorable addition to our family? Or, say, "I'm done," and look forward to regaining my bodily autonomy once this baby is completely weaned in about 5 or 6 months?

I have 4. 3 are biological and the 4th is adopted. No regrets about having 4, they are amazing and get a lot of attention wherever we go!

I realized I basically wrote all the reasons for having a 4th child, but never really expressed why I am unsure.
The main reason is my health. Like, I am healthy, never had any complications other than one quickly-treated bout of mastitis... But dang pregnancy is hard. Like, really hard. It's all worth it when you look up and see a smiling, happy fat 5 month old, a funny, silly, adorable 2 year old, an intelligent, creative, intense 4 year old... But man those 9 months creating them are rough!!!! I like having the kids close in age because I kind of feel like my body is not fully my own in this span of 5ish years, with the pregnancies, breastfeeding, etc... And I look forward to the day when we are DONE and I can have my body back, really get back in shape again, make decisions for myself without concern of how they might affect a fetus or breastfeeding baby because what I do with my body directly affects them...
So anyway, that is the one issue that holds me back. Go through it all again, to then have another adorable addition to our family? Or, say, "I'm done," and look forward to regaining my bodily autonomy once this baby is completely weaned in about 5 or 6 months?

Anonymous wrote:OP, I really appreciate this thread/your original post because when people ask how many kids I want I always “like five but that’s ridiculous” but it’s also …kind of true? I absolutely adore kids and always was kind of sad my parents stopped with me. I just had my second and I’ll probably not have more biological kids for various reasons but if I ever have the space/freedom with respect to job stuff I probably will get certified to foster parent. But like you, this is something I’ll revisit again in a year or so.

(The struggle to get back to pre pregnancy weight is real. Good luck to both of us. 🤪)

Thank you! It is an odd reception around here when one mentions having any more than 2 kids... DH is from a traditional society and I'm from the Midwest where having multiple kids is pretty common...

If you're in a happy marriage, know how to manage your finances/resources and are really dedicated to taking care of you're family, why not?!

You definitely have to have a committed, equal partner. I couldn't imagine this parenting journey with anyone else. DH is the kind of person who will work 8 hours and then take the two older kids for an adventure in the woods for 2 hours for fun and exercise. And wake up early to do the dishes and start work early so he can split work hours with me. To me, having a good partnership is much more important than money. Like, a husband who pulls his own weight in childcare, household duties, and work, and manages to stay fit by running once or twice a week... Is worth way more than a million bucks, or owning your own home