Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All these people post about build quality etc etc. What are you guys comparing too? If all builders are building almost at the same quality, what's the difference? Some people with homes built in the early 2000s on here claiming the quality of their homes are better but who cares, this is the quality of homes being built these days. It is what it is. I never understood this.

Most people are spectacularly unqualified to judge the quality of construction.

What posters here usually mean when they talk about quality is how expensive were the finish materials. Flooring can be fifty cents a square foot or it can be five hundred dollars. A sink faucet can be twenty bucks or it can be two thousand. You can spend $300 on a refrigerator or $30,000. The same is true of windows, doors, wall finishes, decks even landscaping. None of these things affect the quality of construction -- but boy do they affect the price.

I’m a Class A contractor/custom builder. Windows are an element of
quality construction. Builder grade windows on a typical home can cost as little as $15k or
$100k, depending on mfg and product line. Windows are not “finishes” although they may look
the same from afar. Quality construction is all about the building infrastructure itself - from the
foundation, insulation, framing, hvac, plumbing (copper vs cpvc), roofing, hvac, building envelope enclosure, windows/doors,
exterior cladding (brick, stone, hardi, vinyl, etc), sub flooring, sheathing, site grading, driveway material, septic system.
Most everything else referred as “finishes” or the shiny stuff as we like to call it is just cosmetic and the homeowner WILL
be replacing regardless of how much they initially spent to upgrade. The finishes don’t extend life of the structure, make it easier to
Maintain or reduce cost of ownership.

I would argue that quality is all about execution. It doesn't matter what your roof material is if it leaks. Same with plumbing. Poorly installed expensive materials are going to cause problems, and nothing on that list installs itself. You can build a high-quality house with inexpensive materials, it will function but it won't be flashy. Similarly you can build a low-quality house with expensive materials.

In the manufacturing world "quality" means doing what you set out to do. An inexpensive product can be high-quality if every unit is uniform and as-specified. I've heard brewers say that Budweiser is the highest-quality beer in the world, every bottle tastes exactly the same.

Anonymous wrote:All these people post about build quality etc etc. What are you guys comparing too? If all builders are building almost at the same quality, what's the difference? Some people with homes built in the early 2000s on here claiming the quality of their homes are better but who cares, this is the quality of homes being built these days. It is what it is. I never understood this.

The quality of construction is bad as the builders have a lot of customers so they don't care much about the reputation For most of the houses it takes years if not decades to uncover the problems , so the builders just cut the corners to save time and money.

It is nutty out there. We have neighbors that are planning to do a tear-down rebuild and the site prep costs have gone up $20k just over the last few weeks.

On the other hand, we decided to hire an architect for a reno/addition, but by the end of the process it was going to be a $750k budget on a $850k house, which is just dumb. The architect said that pre-pandemic it would have been ~$500k. We will scale back and do something more limited.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All these people post about build quality etc etc. What are you guys comparing too? If all builders are building almost at the same quality, what's the difference? Some people with homes built in the early 2000s on here claiming the quality of their homes are better but who cares, this is the quality of homes being built these days. It is what it is. I never understood this.

Most people are spectacularly unqualified to judge the quality of construction.

What posters here usually mean when they talk about quality is how expensive were the finish materials. Flooring can be fifty cents a square foot or it can be five hundred dollars. A sink faucet can be twenty bucks or it can be two thousand. You can spend $300 on a refrigerator or $30,000. The same is true of windows, doors, wall finishes, decks even landscaping. None of these things affect the quality of construction -- but boy do they affect the price.

I’m a Class A contractor/custom builder. Windows are an element of
quality construction. Builder grade windows on a typical home can cost as little as $15k or
$100k, depending on mfg and product line. Windows are not “finishes” although they may look
the same from afar. Quality construction is all about the building infrastructure itself - from the
foundation, insulation, framing, hvac, plumbing (copper vs cpvc), roofing, hvac, building envelope enclosure, windows/doors,
exterior cladding (brick, stone, hardi, vinyl, etc), sub flooring, sheathing, site grading, driveway material, septic system.
Most everything else referred as “finishes” or the shiny stuff as we like to call it is just cosmetic and the homeowner WILL
be replacing regardless of how much they initially spent to upgrade. The finishes don’t extend life of the structure, make it easier to
Maintain or reduce cost of ownership.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We paid $1M at the end of 2020 to build a 5,500 SF house in Bethesda.

What kind of grade for the construction quality?

How do you determine “construction quality”?

Anonymous wrote:Exactly. It’s the finishes, not the actual quality of the framing or foundation.

There are aspects of the quality of construction that come into play that can't be just completely written off like you want. Proper waterproofing, 2x4 vs 2x6 framing, insulation quality / airtightness and general energy efficiency, systems (cheap hvac + furnace versus something expensive like geothermal), soundproofing, subfloor / floor sturdiness, good and proper wiring + plumbing, just general proper installation which is important especially on certain items where improper installation leads to problems down the road. I've seen a lot of garbage stuff done in new builds over the years - here is a Bethesda horror story of one heinous builder https://bethesdamagazine.com/bethesda-beat/courts/appeals-court-upholds-revocation-of-montgomery-county-home-builders-license/

Then finishes come into play and its more important than "its just finishes". A slate roof lasts 4-6x as long as architectural shingles, for example. Either way, what is the point of building something custom just to get builder grade finishes that you can get in a Toll Brothers or Ryan Homes character-devoid tract house in a crappy suburban development. Just to have a totally custom from scratch floor plan? IMO just find a well built older house on a good lot and get an architect and end up with something far better.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All these people post about build quality etc etc. What are you guys comparing too? If all builders are building almost at the same quality, what's the difference? Some people with homes built in the early 2000s on here claiming the quality of their homes are better but who cares, this is the quality of homes being built these days. It is what it is. I never understood this.

Most people are spectacularly unqualified to judge the quality of construction.

What posters here usually mean when they talk about quality is how expensive were the finish materials. Flooring can be fifty cents a square foot or it can be five hundred dollars. A sink faucet can be twenty bucks or it can be two thousand. You can spend $300 on a refrigerator or $30,000. The same is true of windows, doors, wall finishes, decks even landscaping. None of these things affect the quality of construction -- but boy do they affect the price.

+1000
The reality is that people equate expensive with quality and that is not always the case and builders take full advantage of this naivete. We redid a bathroom last year and the difference is tile prices was wild. In the end we found tile that was $0.99 per tile. The tile place had over ordered and were just trying to get rid of the tile. Saved us a ton of money and didn't compromise on quality.

And that $0.99 tile needs to be installed exactly the same way as $99 tile. The quality is in whether the correct underlayment, mortar and waterproofing was used. Once the tile is in you can't tell those things, they'll become apparent in a couple of years if the tile cracks and comes loose. That $99 tile isn't any more resistant to cracking than the $0.99 tile. Also important is whether the right tile was chosen for the location. I have a bathroom where the builder chose a beautiful Cremona marble tile for the shower. Unfortunately it's not rated for wet locations and in a couple of years began showing horrible discoloration. That tile was probably $20/SF. Is that quality?

Exactly. It’s the finishes, not the actual quality of the framing or foundation.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All these people post about build quality etc etc. What are you guys comparing too? If all builders are building almost at the same quality, what's the difference? Some people with homes built in the early 2000s on here claiming the quality of their homes are better but who cares, this is the quality of homes being built these days. It is what it is. I never understood this.

Most people are spectacularly unqualified to judge the quality of construction.

What posters here usually mean when they talk about quality is how expensive were the finish materials. Flooring can be fifty cents a square foot or it can be five hundred dollars. A sink faucet can be twenty bucks or it can be two thousand. You can spend $300 on a refrigerator or $30,000. The same is true of windows, doors, wall finishes, decks even landscaping. None of these things affect the quality of construction -- but boy do they affect the price.

+1000
The reality is that people equate expensive with quality and that is not always the case and builders take full advantage of this naivete. We redid a bathroom last year and the difference is tile prices was wild. In the end we found tile that was $0.99 per tile. The tile place had over ordered and were just trying to get rid of the tile. Saved us a ton of money and didn't compromise on quality.

Anonymous wrote:All these people post about build quality etc etc. What are you guys comparing too? If all builders are building almost at the same quality, what's the difference? Some people with homes built in the early 2000s on here claiming the quality of their homes are better but who cares, this is the quality of homes being built these days. It is what it is. I never understood this.

Most people are spectacularly unqualified to judge the quality of construction.

What posters here usually mean when they talk about quality is how expensive were the finish materials. Flooring can be fifty cents a square foot or it can be five hundred dollars. A sink faucet can be twenty bucks or it can be two thousand. You can spend $300 on a refrigerator or $30,000. The same is true of windows, doors, wall finishes, decks even landscaping. None of these things affect the quality of construction -- but boy do they affect the price.

All these people post about build quality etc etc. What are you guys comparing too? If all builders are building almost at the same quality, what's the difference? Some people with homes built in the early 2000s on here claiming the quality of their homes are better but who cares, this is the quality of homes being built these days. It is what it is. I never understood this.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here are current prices:

Shanty town construction / doesn’t even exist in 2022 - sub $250/sqft

Low quality, builder grade finishes, nothing custom except for the floor plan. Think your average crappy looking but big McCraftsman - $250/sqft

Good 2nd tier custom construction. Custom finish work / almost nothing builder grade or off the shelf from places like Home Depot. High quality custom finishes but nothing extravagant $300-375

Top tier custom construction. High degree of custom finish work, finest materials and appliances from tile to flooring to hardware, nothing plastic / vinyl all natural materials $400+
Vinyl

Would a builder build me a very nice 1200 square-foot house for 1200 x $400 = $480,000? Single guy here so don’t want a big house but I’m over condo/townhouse living.

Where would you find the land though? It would be more cost effective to buy an older home that needs cosmetic work for $700k - $850k.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We paid $1M at the end of 2020 to build a 5,500 SF house in Bethesda.

What kind of grade for the construction quality?

I can guarantee not great. I paid over $1M for 5000 SF custom in Arlington in 2007, and that’s with an architect spouse who was careful and the lowest bid. In 2007….

Anonymous wrote:We paid $1M at the end of 2020 to build a 5,500 SF house in Bethesda.

What kind of grade for the construction quality?

Not worth it. Get a new house build at a different lot and sell this one. Everything with new permits and construction is going to be much better.