Interesting thread from someone who has had DCs in a Big 3 and a top NYC private. If this is the first time you have a DC going through the process, well, it can feel like rocket science for a bit. DCs' school doesn't calculate GPA, doesn't rank, doesn't offer APs, doesn't use Naviance, etc. so it is a little overwhelming in the early phase when trying to figure out what makes sense when your DC begins to construct a list (after your DC has looked at big/small, rural/urban schools, etc). What does a 3.6 mean when you read both here and on CC about 4.5 weighted GPA, etc?

While we never got a full handle on it, we did get enough to feel comfortable with the list and the ED options. We were fortunate that DC had the best college counselor of the bunch and were confident that the guidance/suggestions were as strong as possible in these less predictable admissions times. DC had the good luck of getting into their ED.

Regarding where a DC falls on a class rank, I kinda get when folks here preach that "it doesn't matter," but I can't help but think of my friend with a DC at another NYC private. Her DC really wanted to go a certain Ivy. The parents had both gone to Ivies, but not this one, and they were really not as familiar with how college admissions had tightened (for lack of a better word) over the last 5-10 years (even more so in last 2). Think they believed that their education would be a thumb on scale for DC. The DC really is a top student (though very, very shy) so we were all pretty shocked when DC didn't even get the courtesy of defer (term of art used at our DCs' school), but an outright reject. So come to find out, 12+ other kids had also applied to this Ivy, 3/4s were legacy, and ~1/2 had better stats. When friend has the WTH happened convo with the counselor later that spring after her DC is admitted to another school, the counselor says "well sometimes a school reaches down and takes an unhooked kid...." Friend told her that if they work together again, that she would appreciate a lot more candor. Yes, my friend was naive, but she says that if they had some additional information, they would have worked more with their DC on being realistic about a list. Maybe would've still gone for an ED reach, but would've been able to pivot once DC got the bad news.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just find this so, so odd. The "Big 3" are supposed to be elite high schools, above the fray socially and academically, among the best in the country, and with outstanding guidance departments and college placement.

Yet, here are parents on an anonymous board fishing for information on where their kids' GPAs place them among their classmates and what colleges they can expect to get into. I have to wonder if this ever goes on at, say, the elite boarding schools or top NYC privates. I'll bet it doesn't, certainly not to this extent, and it makes me wonder -- just how special is the Big 3, really, if the families there act like this?

I don’t know about boarding school, but of course Dalton, Spencer etc parents obsess over college placement.

But the Big 3 parents insist that college placement has nothing to do with their decision to send their kids there . . .

OP didn’t say anything about college placement being their motivation for going there. I’m not a Big 3 parent, so does not apply to me (but college placement was not a driver for our decision to go or not go to Big 3).

That’s really low for T30

For a big3, around 3.5/1500

Obviously it can flux based on variables already mentioned in this thread.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just find this so, so odd. The "Big 3" are supposed to be elite high schools, above the fray socially and academically, among the best in the country, and with outstanding guidance departments and college placement.

Yet, here are parents on an anonymous board fishing for information on where their kids' GPAs place them among their classmates and what colleges they can expect to get into. I have to wonder if this ever goes on at, say, the elite boarding schools or top NYC privates. I'll bet it doesn't, certainly not to this extent, and it makes me wonder -- just how special is the Big 3, really, if the families there act like this?

OP. Thanks PPs. very useful information/feedback.

To this specific post, let me say that confusion regarding one's DC's prospects arises for a few reasons (in combination): 1. Communication from school tends to be much more cautious/opaque than might be imagined. 2. The apparent randomness of outcomes is such that guidance counsellors cannot predict the upside, in particular, with confidence. 3. Schools almost never talk about relative standing except in the vaguest of terms. 4. There are clearly factors other than GPA/SAT that matter for outcomes and it is very hard to infer much by looking at outcomes for older students who have graduated.

All this is to say that I agree with the surprise/frustration expressed by the post. It is quite hard to raise any of these/related issues with the school.

Not sure how much this is a Big 3 problem as I don't know how this works at other schools in the area/elsewhere.

Why does it matter where the kid ranks? As other posters have suggested, once you breach a certain threshold things like rank don't matter. I'm guessing the guidance counselors don't want to talk about rank because it only broadly correlates with Big 3 college admissions and the counselors don't want to mislead parents into attaching much importance to it.

Agreed -- but what is that threshold?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just find this so, so odd. The "Big 3" are supposed to be elite high schools, above the fray socially and academically, among the best in the country, and with outstanding guidance departments and college placement.

Yet, here are parents on an anonymous board fishing for information on where their kids' GPAs place them among their classmates and what colleges they can expect to get into. I have to wonder if this ever goes on at, say, the elite boarding schools or top NYC privates. I'll bet it doesn't, certainly not to this extent, and it makes me wonder -- just how special is the Big 3, really, if the families there act like this?

NP here. It is because for many families/kids - there is not open discussion about where kids stand and it's hard to understand the landscape in early steps of the process before parent meeting with college counseling. It's also not clear that college counselors will tell you where your child stands or whether their ED choice has much competition from others at the school.

OP my child has GPA a bit higher, SAT lower so far, hardest classes, and like you, I'm completely in the dark.

It doesn’t matter where your kid ranks in the class. It’s a pointless question that has nothing to do with admissions.

Anonymous wrote:Your kid will be competitive for any school. They will be one of about 20% who may get into a tippy top ED1, and should be strategic about EA's ED1, ED2 and RD. Have plenty of "T30-T70" matches for RD and give it all the best shot possible.

If legacy, athlete or URM then maybe on the top school ED.

Anonymous wrote:This isn't that hard people.

If you kid has a 3.5 or higher and a 1500 or higher at a big3, they are "qualified" for any school in the country. But those schools have a very small acceptance rate, even for kids at the top of the grade and score spectrum.

So...it really doesn't matter where your kid "stands" - find some schools they like and make sure they send in the best applications they can and let the chips fall where they will.

Whether it is a 3.5 or 3.86 doesn't matter. Whether it is a 1510 or 1580 doesn't matter. They reach the threshold for consideration and from there, may get lucky.

When you are talking about 3%-10% admission rates, it is a lottery and there is only so much you can do to stand out in a sea of thousands of qualified applicants.

+1. OP prepare yourself for a shock. If you want statistics like this to guarantee anything, move to North Dakota and reimagine your kid as a first gen college student

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DC is a junior at a Big 3 school. Deep into thinking/discussion about college applications this fall. 3.7 GPA, 1530 SAT. Took many (but not all) of the "most rigorous" courses available until junior year. Clearly strong student, but we are genuinely unsure about where this places him in general -- your views, parents of junior/senior students or of students who have already graduated? Unhooked kid, so we realize that college applications, esp at the top end will be very challenging. Since school does not provide information on class rank etc, we are just curious about where a student like the stands in relation to peers on a GPA basis.

My kid is a recent Big 3 grad, and a 3.7 GPA put them at roughly the 75% percentile of the class. (Best estimate.) With a 35 ACT and similar rigor, they were competitive for T20 colleges and T10 SLACs, but not Ivies. With only one exception I can think of, every kid who got into an Ivy from that class was an academic rock star (top 4-5), recruited athlete, URM or have parents wealthy enough to endow a building or the like.

I'm curious how you know the academic, recruiting, minority and financial status of every kid in your kid's class who got into an Ivy.

The Cathedral schools only have 75 or so kids per grade. Many have been in the same class since Beauvoir. By 12th grade, your kid definitely knows who are the academic superstars, recruited athletes, URM and the Uber wealthy. Legacy status is not always apparent though. Many of these categories overlap.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DC is a junior at a Big 3 school. Deep into thinking/discussion about college applications this fall. 3.7 GPA, 1530 SAT. Took many (but not all) of the "most rigorous" courses available until junior year. Clearly strong student, but we are genuinely unsure about where this places him in general -- your views, parents of junior/senior students or of students who have already graduated? Unhooked kid, so we realize that college applications, esp at the top end will be very challenging. Since school does not provide information on class rank etc, we are just curious about where a student like the stands in relation to peers on a GPA basis.

My kid is a recent Big 3 grad, and a 3.7 GPA put them at roughly the 75% percentile of the class. (Best estimate.) With a 35 ACT and similar rigor, they were competitive for T20 colleges and T10 SLACs, but not Ivies. With only one exception I can think of, every kid who got into an Ivy from that class was an academic rock star (top 4-5), recruited athlete, URM or have parents wealthy enough to endow a building or the like.

I'm curious how you know the academic, recruiting, minority and financial status of every kid in your kid's class who got into an Ivy.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just find this so, so odd. The "Big 3" are supposed to be elite high schools, above the fray socially and academically, among the best in the country, and with outstanding guidance departments and college placement.

Yet, here are parents on an anonymous board fishing for information on where their kids' GPAs place them among their classmates and what colleges they can expect to get into. I have to wonder if this ever goes on at, say, the elite boarding schools or top NYC privates. I'll bet it doesn't, certainly not to this extent, and it makes me wonder -- just how special is the Big 3, really, if the families there act like this?

OP. Thanks PPs. very useful information/feedback.

To this specific post, let me say that confusion regarding one's DC's prospects arises for a few reasons (in combination): 1. Communication from school tends to be much more cautious/opaque than might be imagined. 2. The apparent randomness of outcomes is such that guidance counsellors cannot predict the upside, in particular, with confidence. 3. Schools almost never talk about relative standing except in the vaguest of terms. 4. There are clearly factors other than GPA/SAT that matter for outcomes and it is very hard to infer much by looking at outcomes for older students who have graduated.

All this is to say that I agree with the surprise/frustration expressed by the post. It is quite hard to raise any of these/related issues with the school.

Not sure how much this is a Big 3 problem as I don't know how this works at other schools in the area/elsewhere.

Why does it matter where the kid ranks? As other posters have suggested, once you breach a certain threshold things like rank don't matter. I'm guessing the guidance counselors don't want to talk about rank because it only broadly correlates with Big 3 college admissions and the counselors don't want to mislead parents into attaching much importance to it.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just find this so, so odd. The "Big 3" are supposed to be elite high schools, above the fray socially and academically, among the best in the country, and with outstanding guidance departments and college placement.

Yet, here are parents on an anonymous board fishing for information on where their kids' GPAs place them among their classmates and what colleges they can expect to get into. I have to wonder if this ever goes on at, say, the elite boarding schools or top NYC privates. I'll bet it doesn't, certainly not to this extent, and it makes me wonder -- just how special is the Big 3, really, if the families there act like this?

If this post triggers this level of reaction in you then you have deep seated insecurities about where your kid goes to school.

DP. Why, exactly?

Anonymous wrote:I just find this so, so odd. The "Big 3" are supposed to be elite high schools, above the fray socially and academically, among the best in the country, and with outstanding guidance departments and college placement.

Yet, here are parents on an anonymous board fishing for information on where their kids' GPAs place them among their classmates and what colleges they can expect to get into. I have to wonder if this ever goes on at, say, the elite boarding schools or top NYC privates. I'll bet it doesn't, certainly not to this extent, and it makes me wonder -- just how special is the Big 3, really, if the families there act like this?

It’s kind of interesting. At the same time it’s considered by this PP weird that people would be asking for this information. On the other hand it’s frequently acknowledged as an unfair advantage that parents from these types of schools pay consultants thousands of dollars for these insights. Parents at the PPs examples of NYC privates and boarding schools are way more likely to pay educational consultants for admissions advice than DC parents of Big 3.

Anonymous wrote:Anecdotal among my senior’s friend group this year at a coed big3 …. An unhooked girl with similar is going to T10; slightly hooked, non-legacy kid going to Yale. My own very unhooked kid with identical stats is going to a T15 using ED1.

Those stats are good enough to aim high. Do NOT let DCUM tell you “it’s a lottery” or that a 3.7 from Sidwell, GDS or STA/NCS can’t compete with 4.4s from public schools. You’ll get to see naviance only with the college counselor controlling access. This is of limited utility because you can see the points on the GPA/SAT graph for a given college but you can’t know if the kids had hooks.

+1 This.

Your kid is in very good shape.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Anecdotal among my senior’s friend group this year at a coed big3 …. An unhooked girl with similar is going to T10; slightly hooked, non-legacy kid going to Yale. My own very unhooked kid with identical stats is going to a T15 using ED1.

Those stats are good enough to aim high. Do NOT let DCUM tell you “it’s a lottery” or that a 3.7 from Sidwell, GDS or STA/NCS can’t compete with 4.4s from public schools. You’ll get to see naviance only with the college counselor controlling access. This is of limited utility because you can see the points on the GPA/SAT graph for a given college but you can’t know if the kids had hooks.

But I also know plenty of kids with identical stats at probably the same coed big 3 who did not get into their ED1 or EA choices so far. I’m sure they will be fine in the RD round, but just to say it’s a crapshoot and you just don’t know what colleges are looking for.

about 20-25% of my kids big3 got into their ED this fall - that number is consistent with the past few years that I am aware of. That is what OP should count on. It is a long shot but not impossible.