Ok do not deal with and him and do not tell your parents about it. If they find out just say you feel it is not a healthy relationship and leave it at that.

Men don’t understand talk. They only understand consequences.

The more you try to explain yourself to him, the more it empowers him.

When he says sh!tty things, hang up the phone or leave. “I don’t like being spoken to that way so I’m hanging up. Bye”. Click. Don’t listen to objections or explain further, ignore any calls or texts afterwards. Repeat x1000 until he gets it.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You want your parents to pick a side. Your side. And they won't because you are both equally at fault. They aren't even on his side. You sound very immature. Grow up.

I am honestly trying to take in the constructive criticism and learn, but I don't understand what you mean by "Grow up".

I am trying to be mature. My brother chooses to make hurtful comments, accuse me of being wrong in a million different ways, and no amount of conversation with him will change this. I can't keep putting up with being treated so badly. I thought the emotionally mature thing to do would be to disengage.

I told my parents that I am willing to come to family events and be polite, but I just cannot keep trying to have a close relationship with him. They are insisting that we make up, and are faulting me for the whole situation.

He is completely fine continuing the relationship as it is (he insults me, I have to just deal with it), and also blames me for not wanting to play ball.

What exactly are my right next steps here?

Just ignore as much as possible and refuse to engage. Don't answer texts and calls or just say "Ok" and not take the bait. Keep it surface level like a casual acquaintance. Walk away when he insults, change the topic, say it's time to go, there are a lot of options.

This is good advice OP. My sister is like this and so is my mother. I loved the book Adult Children of Emotionally immature People recommended on DCUM. It gave me ideas of how to have some connection, but accept it would not be the type of relationship I value because they just aren't like that. Stop with the verbal boundaries. I tried with my family and they cannot handle boundaries stated. I just do it. If I am insulted I change subject or just say "hmmm." If I can, I make an excuse to leave. If someone tries to guilt trip me I might reflect back "Oh so you say i don't do enough for you. Hmmm." I stopped explaining, justifying or reasoning because you cannot reason with unreasonable. If I were accused of being cheap I might just calmly say "Oh, I am sorry your kids didn't like the gifts. I had hoped they would."

Do not drag other people in and try to help them see your side. My sister has had cousins cut off from her because she is that toxic and it is ALWAYS the other person's fault according to our parents. My grandparents saw her for who she was, but they are no longer living. If mom says I need to do x, y and z and be closer with my sister, I just change the subject.

I get talked down to and given unsolicited advice too. I just pretend like I am deaf and calmly change the subject. If it gets repeated I might excuse myself to the bathroom. If I actually confront it verbally calmly ask that they refrain from this I set off drama because they cannot handle it.

Keep conversations light and boring and when they bait you as the PP says "Do NOT, I repeat do NOT take the bait." They want to push your buttons. I truly think for some people it gives them a dopamine fix.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You are never going to get your brother to change.

You are never going to get your parents to pick a side.

The only thing you can do is change yourself, and how you react to situations.

You don't need to create drama by saying that you shouldn't speak, or by dragging your parents into it.

You can just quietly reduce contact with him. And when you speak to him and he says mean things, then calmly withdraw from the conversation. If he is pleasant then you can engage a little more. You need to understand that his nastyness comes from a place of inferiority, and his views on the role of a woman from a place of ignorance. He can only undermine your sense of self-worth if you let him. Frankly, he sounds sad, so I don't know why you would care about his approval. Just relax, and take a deep breath, and deescalate the whole relationship.

+1

I don't ask my parents to choose between me and my sister, who is my only sibling and who is also incredibly dysfunctional. My parents know the latter, and go to great lengths to support her. While they have more insight than you describe your parents as having, it's also not fair to put them in the middle of your adult relationship with your adult sibling. I recently had to set a hard boundary with my sister, and she overreacted, as she usually does. I didn't talk about it with my parents, because it's irrelevant. I have my relationship with them, and she has hers. When we must see each other, I set the needed boundaries and we go from there.

It's painful and it sucks, but this approach is also FAR better and calmer than what you describe. My sister occupies almost none of my headspace. I can parent and function and be there for my own family and friends. I'm not responsible for her, and you're not responsible for your brother. Focus on what you can control, i.e., you.

OP. Thank you for this advice! And to everyone who is helping me see this more clearly and find a more sustainable path. I really really appreciate it.

You’re welcome, OP. It really is hard, and so many people don’t get it (as evidenced by this thread). Hang in there—it’s a process, but positive change is absolutely possible.

Learn sarcasm. Enough “yup, my fault” and “you’re right” over and over will ensure he’s not getting the satisfaction of getting to you and will show others how he’s repeated in his digs at you. Let him do all the work contacting you. When he gets annoying practice saying “Gotta run. Love to the kids. Bye!”

Anonymous wrote:OP - I can relate....my brother is similar. Those that don't get it, don't get it.

Totally agree. My brother is the same and I have had to draw major boundaries for my own mental health and self esteem. Until a person has been verbally and mentally beaten down repeatedly, they can’t understand what that feels like.

Op, it sounds like you are doing the right thing and also examining your role in the dynamic. I have a similar situation with my parents also, except they are the ones constantly asking me to talk about it and I have tried to keep everything light and not discuss my brother . If I were you, I would just try to avoid the topic as much as you can and also avoid those types of scenarios with your brother.

I have finally gotten to a point where I have accepted that it doesn’t matter if I do whatever my brother asks, or I do whatever I want. He will still have his thoughts, but that doesn’t mean he is right. Once I realized that, it has been very liberating for me. I don’t really care what he or my parents think anymore as far as how much I interact with him or how I live my life. I am still there for my family but I don’t do anything where it compromises my own mental/physical health or that of my own family.

Good luck, it’s a tough dynamic to break when you have been conditioned to interact this way your entire life. Hang in there!

Brother is doing this because he gets off on it for some reason. He likes upsetting you. He likes baiting you. And he really likes acting the victim and getting your parents to think you're the problem.

You've been given good advice (in my opinion) about keeping everything superficial. When he does the "good for you and surprised that you're a functioning adult, either don't respond or say something like it seems to be going well. Keep saying that until he gets off the subject. When you're the bad sister because you haven't called, I know, I've been really busy. Keep repeating. Mother's place is i the home. Well, it works for my family.

DON'T explain anything to him as it probably comes across to him that you're defending yourself against his criticism, and that just gives him more ammunition.

Sounds like the typical bully that, as soon as they see that you're not affected by what they're doing, it's not fun for them anymore. And yes, keep conversations with your parents pretty vague.

Good luck.

I empathize with you as I have seen a similar dynamic in my husband’s family.

Please please please do not involve others. Nothing good will come of it for anyone. You need reduce contact with him while you continue to strengthen your own mind because you will not be able to change him.

OP - I can relate....my brother is similar. Those that don't get it, don't get it.

Anonymous wrote:As a parent, this breaks my heart. Is it possible for you to get an understanding of your brother's mental state to be able to have a relationship? I am not saying to just give in to him, but recognize that is a mental issue with him.

Looks like my mom has joined the discussion!

It is okay for siblings to not be best friends. OP has not said she is abandoning her family, she just needs some empathy and a break from the massive *ssholery of her brother.

OP, I have a similar dynamic in my family. I do not complain to my mom and dad. It just enrages me that they can have no sympathy.

You cannot change how other people think. You've tried and its clearly not working. So stop engaging in these conversations. The only thing you can control is what YOU talk about and how often you see these people. That's it. And you have the right to see them less if it causes you pain.

Don't make this any bigger. Don't discuss your decision and don't try to justify it to anyone.

There was no need for you to make some major announcement to your family. You could have just stopped reaching out to your brother quietly without fanfare, and when at family gatherings said "Hi, nice to see you again" and then moved on. You created this problem with your family.

Anonymous wrote:Just don't engage. You don't have to take his call. You don't have to tell your parents about any of this. You can have the relationship with him that you want, which seems to be limited, and live a happy life.

This is why people are telling you to grow up. Take control. Act like an adult. Don't keep playing the victim because you are allowing him to treat you poorly.

OP. Thank you for the tough love!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You are never going to get your brother to change.

You are never going to get your parents to pick a side.

The only thing you can do is change yourself, and how you react to situations.

You don't need to create drama by saying that you shouldn't speak, or by dragging your parents into it.

You can just quietly reduce contact with him. And when you speak to him and he says mean things, then calmly withdraw from the conversation. If he is pleasant then you can engage a little more. You need to understand that his nastyness comes from a place of inferiority, and his views on the role of a woman from a place of ignorance. He can only undermine your sense of self-worth if you let him. Frankly, he sounds sad, so I don't know why you would care about his approval. Just relax, and take a deep breath, and deescalate the whole relationship.

+1

I don't ask my parents to choose between me and my sister, who is my only sibling and who is also incredibly dysfunctional. My parents know the latter, and go to great lengths to support her. While they have more insight than you describe your parents as having, it's also not fair to put them in the middle of your adult relationship with your adult sibling. I recently had to set a hard boundary with my sister, and she overreacted, as she usually does. I didn't talk about it with my parents, because it's irrelevant. I have my relationship with them, and she has hers. When we must see each other, I set the needed boundaries and we go from there.

It's painful and it sucks, but this approach is also FAR better and calmer than what you describe. My sister occupies almost none of my headspace. I can parent and function and be there for my own family and friends. I'm not responsible for her, and you're not responsible for your brother. Focus on what you can control, i.e., you.

OP. Thank you for this advice! And to everyone who is helping me see this more clearly and find a more sustainable path. I really really appreciate it.

Anonymous wrote:OP: You're defensiveness in the face of the preponderance of posts on here would point to your role in this situation. I see so many people come out of therapy playing the victim and unable to own up to their own responsibility in relationships. You and your brother are different. You want him to say that your way, opinions, lifestyle, are the right way and his is wrong. Why should he do that? Why would you involve your parents? You are the bigger problem in this dymamic. But you found a therapist who wants you to keep paying them, so they tell you what you want to hear. This is why therapy is so dangerous.

OP. Just want to clarify that my therapy was a specific period of time, it's not some ongoing thing. I think it was important for me coming from a family where (A) emotions always ran high and (B) parents were always pointing out our flaws, fixing us, and arguing about right and wrong. I agree it can become dangerous, though, and that's why I'm not doing it as a permanent thing.

Ten years ago, yes, I thought I was right and he was wrong. But after therapy, and I suppose after growing up a bit, I have come to a place where I'm more than ready to say: We are totally different, and that's ok. I've long since dropped judgment of his lifestyle (he does have pretty strong conservative beliefs about BLM/systemic racism, and those are hard to accept, but I really just try to avoid that whole topic).

I definitely do not want him to be wrong and me to be right. I want us both to just respect each other; to realize that we are different and that doesn't make EITHER OF US wrong. I am just tired of being criticized all the time and getting a flood of demeaning comments and zero give when I try to explain my perspective.

Some of the responses were really off base, so I was defensive, I guess (like people are criticizing my marriage, where we really don't have this problem - it's specifically with my brother and no one else in my life). But, a lot of the constructive criticism is helpful and I am going to be changing my approach to this whole problem based on the comments I got.