Anonymous
01/15/2022 19:24
Subject: Swarthmore/Wes VS Williams/Bowdoin
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:i don't think I've ever heard any knowledgeable person describe the vibe at Swarthmore and Wesleyan as similar. Previous posters have outlined the differences pretty well.
When my kid was applying to SLACs, they applied to Wesleyan, Carleton, and Grinnell. The dream school was Brown, which didn't happen. Wesleyan is closer in vibe to these schools than it is to Swarthmore.
I agree. Your kid's list is a bit 'crunchier'. Others along the line might include Vassar, Earlham, Bard, Oberlin, Bates. (And even Sarah Lawrence, Bennington, or Hampshire ...)
I mean, I guess -- Carleton and Grinnell may be more "crunchy" but academically they're far superior to the schools you just listed and more much aligned with the schools on OP's list.
Here you go:
Carleton - 21% admitted, V: 660-750, M: 670-770
Grinnell - 19% admitted, V: 670-750 M: 683-788
Vassar - 25%, V: 680-750, M: 680-770
Bates - 14% admitted
Oberlin - 35% admitted, V: 650-690, M: 620-670
Bard - 57%
Earlham - 59%, V: 560-670, M: 550-660
The figures are from the Natl Center for Education Statistics. No test scores are listed for Bates or Bard.
US News rankings:
Carleton 9
Grinnell 13
Vassar 22
Bates 25
Oberlin 37
Bard 62
Sarah Lawrence 71
Bennington 79
Earlham 92
Hampshire 141
Ignore anyone who tries to get you to think that admit rates or USNWR rankings are a good way to make your decisions. The median SAT scores at Carleton and Grinnell are in the 99th percentile. At Oberlin, it's the 96th percentile. Bard doesn't make their Common Data Set public, but they're ranked very close to Rhodes College, whose Median SAT score is also in the 96th percentile. How much of a difference do you think there will really be between a school with the average score in the 99th vs. the 96th percentile? The distances between colleges in USNWR rankings appear much larger than they are. There are many colleges that are very close to one another academically.
Thank you. I'm the parent who originally listed these schools as of interest to a the same kind of student. Carleton, Grinnell and Vassar have the same SAT range, despite a 9pt difference. The Bowdoin kid I know applied to Bates. The Oberlin kid I know also applied to Bard. The Grinnell kid I know also applied to Earlham.
Hampshire, Bennington and Sarah Lawrence are all a bit different but it has to do more with culture (and they probably merit a look at financial stability which I think has been an issue with both Hampshire and Bennington but maybe I'm remembering wrong).
The higher ranked schools generally also have much higher endowments, which translates into much greater financial resources and stability while also allowing for things like need blind admissions and better economic diversity. A few years ago there were rumors that Bennington was even going bankrupt. And, yea, I'd say 99th is better than 96th. Why pay the same price for the 50th ranked school instead of the 10th?
No one is saying decisions should only be based on rankings, but they shouldn't be ignored either.
Anonymous
01/15/2022 19:19
Subject: Swarthmore/Wes VS Williams/Bowdoin
we have multiple fam members that attended swarthmore within the last decade.
Williams wanted to recruit two of them but they accepted their swat recruiting offers instead.
The biggest difference is swat is way more diverse. Racially, socially, body types, attitudes, presentation etc.
Being a Philly area school vs rural New England/nescac really shapes the atmosphere even if Williams does make a concerted effort to diversify.
I actually wanted my sibling to go to Williams but it was better they ended up at swat as we are not a nescac family. You know exactly what I mean.
Williams wanted to recruit two of them but they accepted their swat recruiting offers instead.
The biggest difference is swat is way more diverse. Racially, socially, body types, attitudes, presentation etc.
Being a Philly area school vs rural New England/nescac really shapes the atmosphere even if Williams does make a concerted effort to diversify.
I actually wanted my sibling to go to Williams but it was better they ended up at swat as we are not a nescac family. You know exactly what I mean.
Anonymous
01/15/2022 19:19
Subject: Swarthmore/Wes VS Williams/Bowdoin
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:i don't think I've ever heard any knowledgeable person describe the vibe at Swarthmore and Wesleyan as similar. Previous posters have outlined the differences pretty well.
When my kid was applying to SLACs, they applied to Wesleyan, Carleton, and Grinnell. The dream school was Brown, which didn't happen. Wesleyan is closer in vibe to these schools than it is to Swarthmore.
Did they choose one of these schools?
Didn't get into Wesleyan. Chose Grinnell over Carleton (and William & Mary) partly because they got a large merit award. Would have gone there over Carleton even without the aid, the fit felt better, but the money helped with the decision to go out of state private over William & Mary.
Interesting sidenote: my kid's two BFFs toured together and applied to these same schools. One got into Wesleyan but not Carleton; mine got into Carleton but not Wesleyan; one got into both; and all three got into Grinnell but mine (notwithstanding coming being the best off financially) got the most merit money.
I was the one who asked and my DC is going to Grinnell in the fall! Applied ED but second choice was W&M (but we are OOS). Looked at the other schools too.
Anonymous
01/15/2022 19:14
Subject: Swarthmore/Wes VS Williams/Bowdoin
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:i don't think I've ever heard any knowledgeable person describe the vibe at Swarthmore and Wesleyan as similar. Previous posters have outlined the differences pretty well.
When my kid was applying to SLACs, they applied to Wesleyan, Carleton, and Grinnell. The dream school was Brown, which didn't happen. Wesleyan is closer in vibe to these schools than it is to Swarthmore.
Did they choose one of these schools?
Didn't get into Wesleyan. Chose Grinnell over Carleton (and William & Mary) partly because they got a large merit award. Would have gone there over Carleton even without the aid, the fit felt better, but the money helped with the decision to go out of state private over William & Mary.
Interesting sidenote: my kid's two BFFs toured together and applied to these same schools. One got into Wesleyan but not Carleton; mine got into Carleton but not Wesleyan; one got into both; and all three got into Grinnell but mine (notwithstanding coming being the best off financially) got the most merit money.
Anonymous
01/15/2022 19:11
Subject: Swarthmore/Wes VS Williams/Bowdoin
I do actually think there is a difference between the top schools and the others. We visited a ton of SLACs in the last year and attended SLACs ourselves. Obviously some of the ranking differences are arbitrary but these schools are not all the same.
Anonymous
01/15/2022 18:57
Subject: Swarthmore/Wes VS Williams/Bowdoin
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:i don't think I've ever heard any knowledgeable person describe the vibe at Swarthmore and Wesleyan as similar. Previous posters have outlined the differences pretty well.
When my kid was applying to SLACs, they applied to Wesleyan, Carleton, and Grinnell. The dream school was Brown, which didn't happen. Wesleyan is closer in vibe to these schools than it is to Swarthmore.
I agree. Your kid's list is a bit 'crunchier'. Others along the line might include Vassar, Earlham, Bard, Oberlin, Bates. (And even Sarah Lawrence, Bennington, or Hampshire ...)
I mean, I guess -- Carleton and Grinnell may be more "crunchy" but academically they're far superior to the schools you just listed and more much aligned with the schools on OP's list.
Here you go:
Carleton - 21% admitted, V: 660-750, M: 670-770
Grinnell - 19% admitted, V: 670-750 M: 683-788
Vassar - 25%, V: 680-750, M: 680-770
Bates - 14% admitted
Oberlin - 35% admitted, V: 650-690, M: 620-670
Bard - 57%
Earlham - 59%, V: 560-670, M: 550-660
The figures are from the Natl Center for Education Statistics. No test scores are listed for Bates or Bard.
US News rankings:
Carleton 9
Grinnell 13
Vassar 22
Bates 25
Oberlin 37
Bard 62
Sarah Lawrence 71
Bennington 79
Earlham 92
Hampshire 141
Ignore anyone who tries to get you to think that admit rates or USNWR rankings are a good way to make your decisions. The median SAT scores at Carleton and Grinnell are in the 99th percentile. At Oberlin, it's the 96th percentile. Bard doesn't make their Common Data Set public, but they're ranked very close to Rhodes College, whose Median SAT score is also in the 96th percentile. How much of a difference do you think there will really be between a school with the average score in the 99th vs. the 96th percentile? The distances between colleges in USNWR rankings appear much larger than they are. There are many colleges that are very close to one another academically.[/quote]
This should be repeated over and over again until people finally get it. Regarding the differences between schools, we visited many of the schools discussed in this thread and they are all more similar than they are different. Yes, you might get a different "vibe" from one but that can change from day to day and when you visit (over the summer will feel different than during the school year, could have a different tour guide, could be an event on campus that brings students out, etc.). But all the schools in this thread are strong academically and a student will get a good education at all. My kid is at one of the Maine SLACs but he could have easily been at one of the others and still been happy.
Anonymous
01/15/2022 18:37
Subject: Re:Swarthmore/Wes VS Williams/Bowdoin
I have 2 close friends who went to Swarthmore and they are not that intellectually intense and are fairly laid-back. THey liked the school, but I don't get a sense that they LOVED it. But I also think the "vibe" thing has a lot of people repeating things they've heard. Places shift, and there are usually a lot of sub-cultures/niche groups in any place.
I think the more important thing is to find a range of schools with selectivity/affordability in locations you like.
I think the more important thing is to find a range of schools with selectivity/affordability in locations you like.
Anonymous
01/15/2022 18:31
Subject: Swarthmore/Wes VS Williams/Bowdoin
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:DC graduated from Wes and had a fantastic four years. It’s a very cooperative, down to earth and diverse culture.with a robust arts scene. Campus isn’t isolated like many LACs and Middletown offers a nice assortment of restaurants and other retail. I was impressed with the research opportunities and the level of interaction with professors. Mandatory on campus housing progresses from traditional dorms to single family homes and I think it fosters a strong sense of community.
So he liked Middletown? This is the one near-universal negative I hear about Wes—the town. We were there during the summer, when everything was very slow; the main drag seemed pleasant enough.
Being able to walk into town was a big bonus. It’s a blue collar town no doubt but these are college students who aren’t the most discerning consumers. A good variety of ethnic restaurants, a great pizza place and we enjoyed the restaurant at the Middletown Inn. Compared to Midd or Colby or Williams it just seemed much more connected to the world.
Anonymous
01/15/2022 18:12
Subject: Re:Swarthmore/Wes VS Williams/Bowdoin
I have heard both Swarthmore and Wesleyan described as quirky. Perhaps that is the commonality between them. The marketing from Swarthmore is weird and would only appeal to a quirky kid.
Anonymous
01/15/2022 18:09
Subject: Swarthmore/Wes VS Williams/Bowdoin
Anonymous wrote:Both of my parents went to Swarthmore, and my grandfather was a professor there. I grew up wandering their campus when we visited my grandparents, and I still think it's the most beautiful campus in the country (it's registered as a national arboretum).
My mother is an intense scholar, my father was a laid-back intellectual. She loved it, he hated it. I'm more similar to him, and he talked me out of even applying. He was right.
Interesting. Thanks for posting
Anonymous
01/15/2022 17:19
Subject: Swarthmore/Wes VS Williams/Bowdoin
Anonymous wrote:DC graduated from Wes and had a fantastic four years. It’s a very cooperative, down to earth and diverse culture.with a robust arts scene. Campus isn’t isolated like many LACs and Middletown offers a nice assortment of restaurants and other retail. I was impressed with the research opportunities and the level of interaction with professors. Mandatory on campus housing progresses from traditional dorms to single family homes and I think it fosters a strong sense of community.
So he liked Middletown? This is the one near-universal negative I hear about Wes—the town. We were there during the summer, when everything was very slow; the main drag seemed pleasant enough.
Anonymous
01/15/2022 17:18
Subject: Re:Swarthmore/Wes VS Williams/Bowdoin
Anonymous wrote:OP here. Thanks for all of these very useful replies. Fwiw we didn’t come up with the teaming of Swathmore and Wesleyan, this is what we read in Fiske. This thread actually makes me re-think our approach of starting with those books for guidance on where DC wants to look. Of course we were taking them with grain of salt anyway, but DC finds it impossible to get any sense of a “vibe” from each college’s individual website (they all look nice and they all tout their caring profs, friendly students and great resources), so where else to start?!
I think this is one of those areas where it helps to either have a lot of friends who attended SLACs or have a lot of friends with children older than yours who attend SLACs, so you have a sense of the vibe. But visiting helps a lot, and I think with SLACs it's vital to check out the campuses while there are students around.
Anonymous
01/15/2022 17:14
Subject: Swarthmore/Wes VS Williams/Bowdoin
I went to Wesleyan and agree with much of the previous responses. I found it intellectual and intense though not in a competitive way. I’ve heard that Swarthmore is much more intense. I didn’t think Wesleyan was laid back though. In fact, intense is the word I think best describes it. The second word that comes to mind is intellectual. Many people were very serious about their studies, and others were very serious about other interests/pursuits. I remember going to a party on a Saturday night senior year and someone put a sign on the door asking that people not discuss their senior theses.
It’s a great school though. I visited recently with my DS. He was planning to apply but wound up preferring and being admitted ED to a different SLAC.
It’s a great school though. I visited recently with my DS. He was planning to apply but wound up preferring and being admitted ED to a different SLAC.
Anonymous
01/15/2022 17:03
Subject: Swarthmore/Wes VS Williams/Bowdoin
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:i don't think I've ever heard any knowledgeable person describe the vibe at Swarthmore and Wesleyan as similar. Previous posters have outlined the differences pretty well.
When my kid was applying to SLACs, they applied to Wesleyan, Carleton, and Grinnell. The dream school was Brown, which didn't happen. Wesleyan is closer in vibe to these schools than it is to Swarthmore.
I agree. Your kid's list is a bit 'crunchier'. Others along the line might include Vassar, Earlham, Bard, Oberlin, Bates. (And even Sarah Lawrence, Bennington, or Hampshire ...)
I mean, I guess -- Carleton and Grinnell may be more "crunchy" but academically they're far superior to the schools you just listed and more much aligned with the schools on OP's list.
Here you go:
Carleton - 21% admitted, V: 660-750, M: 670-770
Grinnell - 19% admitted, V: 670-750 M: 683-788
Vassar - 25%, V: 680-750, M: 680-770
Bates - 14% admitted
Oberlin - 35% admitted, V: 650-690, M: 620-670
Bard - 57%
Earlham - 59%, V: 560-670, M: 550-660
The figures are from the Natl Center for Education Statistics. No test scores are listed for Bates or Bard.
US News rankings:
Carleton 9
Grinnell 13
Vassar 22
Bates 25
Oberlin 37
Bard 62
Sarah Lawrence 71
Bennington 79
Earlham 92
Hampshire 141
Ignore anyone who tries to get you to think that admit rates or USNWR rankings are a good way to make your decisions. The median SAT scores at Carleton and Grinnell are in the 99th percentile. At Oberlin, it's the 96th percentile. Bard doesn't make their Common Data Set public, but they're ranked very close to Rhodes College, whose Median SAT score is also in the 96th percentile. How much of a difference do you think there will really be between a school with the average score in the 99th vs. the 96th percentile? The distances between colleges in USNWR rankings appear much larger than they are. There are many colleges that are very close to one another academically.
Thank you. I'm the parent who originally listed these schools as of interest to a the same kind of student. Carleton, Grinnell and Vassar have the same SAT range, despite a 9pt difference. The Bowdoin kid I know applied to Bates. The Oberlin kid I know also applied to Bard. The Grinnell kid I know also applied to Earlham.
Hampshire, Bennington and Sarah Lawrence are all a bit different but it has to do more with culture (and they probably merit a look at financial stability which I think has been an issue with both Hampshire and Bennington but maybe I'm remembering wrong).
Anonymous
01/15/2022 17:01
Subject: Swarthmore/Wes VS Williams/Bowdoin
Anonymous wrote:i don't think I've ever heard any knowledgeable person describe the vibe at Swarthmore and Wesleyan as similar. Previous posters have outlined the differences pretty well.
When my kid was applying to SLACs, they applied to Wesleyan, Carleton, and Grinnell. The dream school was Brown, which didn't happen. Wesleyan is closer in vibe to these schools than it is to Swarthmore.
Did they choose one of these schools?