Anonymous
Post 12/16/2021 10:39     Subject: Re:What causes some women to continuously be in abusive, toxic relationships?
There is a great post about this on the last psychiatrist.

https://thelastpsychiatrist.com/2010/08/love_the_way_you_lie_with_me.html

In my experience as a therapist, it’s the differential. Women who grew up in abusive relationships need those high’s and low’s to feel like they are in a relationship.
Anonymous
Post 12/16/2021 07:25     Subject: What causes some women to continuously be in abusive, toxic relationships?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Assertive men are sexy. Also, because they aggressively seek out a relationship with the woman, they're the path of least resistance. Aggression and assertiveness are often correlated with toxic and abusive behaviors.


Men like this are NOT sexy on any level.

Give me a sensitive, articulate man over any muscle man who curses and slams doors!


It sounds like you don’t have experience in this area. The post before you is absolutely spot on.

They aren’t the ugly side of aggressive and assertive in the beginning. In the beginning they are charming (aggressively pursuing you aka love-bombing) and are assertive (think self-confident, meeting all your needs).

Once they have you then they rip the rug out from underneath you and become the ugly side of aggressive (gas lighting and silent treatment) and assertive (controlling and projecting).


This. My abuser is super sensitive and articulate. Later he cursed and slammed doors. He is both.
Anonymous
Post 12/16/2021 07:24     Subject: What causes some women to continuously be in abusive, toxic relationships?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:For me it was codependency on my end, and a highly skilled abuser. All the love bombing to make me feel special, then he slowly turned up the heat. I never even knew what was happening.

Promises to change, he even did tons of therapy on his own and with me.

So much gaslighting, to the point I didn’t even know what was true and doubted my own sanity. Looking back I was so dumb for buying into it, but at the time, it felt very real. Just as an example, my xH had an amazing memory. He could see a stranger in a store, and recognize them on the street a year later. So if we disagreed on how an event in our marriage occurred (say, how a past disagreement went), he would position himself as the authority since his memory was so good. And even worse, he would come across as concerning. “Babe, your memory is really getting bad and I’m concerned. That’s not how it happened. I think we should get you to a doctor”. When my memory was totally fine.

Getting everybody on his side. Abusers are often extremely charming. After we divorced, everybody sided with him, even my own family. He convinced them I was having some sort of mental breakdown. Also isolated me from the people he knew would be in my corner.

And I don’t know how to explain it, but destroying my self esteem to the point of utter hopelessness. It wasn’t that I thought I couldn’t do better - rationally, I knew I could. But I was so beaten down that I couldn’t even get the energy to leave. It’s like, you just feel so bad about yourself, it doesn’t matter what happens. Happiness seems like something so unachievable, may as well stay and just move through life in a daze until you die.


Basically this.except my abuser did not make any promise or attempts to change, he just denied the undeniable abuse and told me I was the crazy drama seeker and even the abuser. I was in therapy at the time and my therapist completely failed to spot the abuser and instead coached me to stay in the relationship. I later learned he himself had the hots for me so I think this happened so he could reassure himself he wasn’t holding me back. He absolutely was. I did not have the courage to move on though as I was almost 40.


PP. I’m so sorry you went through this. Therapy/counseling was a disaster for me as well, they just aren’t skilled at or trained to spot abuse. I’ll never forget how when our marriage counselor had a 1-on-1 session with xH, he convinced the counselor I had this huge list of mental problems ranging from borderline to being emotionally stuck at 14 to being incestuous with my family. The counselor bought it all hook, line, and sinker, even though they had spent only an hour with me and couldn’t possibly diagnose me with anything.

It’s especially awful your therapist was abusive as well, not acceptable to prey on a client like that. I hope you’re doing better now.


Yes the therapist, who was like night and day opposite of my aggressively abusive, violent spouse, did abuse and exploit the therapy. He was more of a wolf in sheep’s clothing and became a refuge. But, he treated me like gold. Was unfailingly respectful, reciprocal, loving, real, enjoyed making me happy and gave and received real love. It’s weird but even though it was a totally inappropriate relationship and I suffered because of that, it taught me a lot about healthy and mutual relationships, what to seek and how to behave in intimate relationships. I may be the only person who was exploited by a therapist and actually benefitted from it. I would have been better served if he had worked with me on boundaries, self respect, and getting out of the abusive relationship and into a better one. But I don’t think I could have learned what that was if he had not shown me himself. I divorced my abuser, moved on from the therapist and am looking for what I learned in more appropriate people.
Anonymous
Post 12/16/2021 07:22     Subject: What causes some women to continuously be in abusive, toxic relationships?
Not a lot of love from Daddy or were abused by a family member. I know a lot of girls that “danced” for money and stayed with abusive men, the consistent theme is growing up with the lack of love from their Father or abused by a family member.
Anonymous
Post 12/16/2021 07:05     Subject: Re:What causes some women to continuously be in abusive, toxic relationships?
Anonymous wrote:All I can say is you ignore the early signs at your peril. I thought I could handle my abuser. It escalated to the point that he threatened murder suicide more than once; and would like nothing more than to drive me to suicide so he could have our kid alone.


What are the early signs? What should young women look out for?
Anonymous
Post 12/16/2021 06:47     Subject: What causes some women to continuously be in abusive, toxic relationships?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Assertive men are sexy. Also, because they aggressively seek out a relationship with the woman, they're the path of least resistance. Aggression and assertiveness are often correlated with toxic and abusive behaviors.


Men like this are NOT sexy on any level.

Give me a sensitive, articulate man over any muscle man who curses and slams doors!


It sounds like you don’t have experience in this area. The post before you is absolutely spot on.

They aren’t the ugly side of aggressive and assertive in the beginning. In the beginning they are charming (aggressively pursuing you aka love-bombing) and are assertive (think self-confident, meeting all your needs).

Once they have you then they rip the rug out from underneath you and become the ugly side of aggressive (gas lighting and silent treatment) and assertive (controlling and projecting).
Anonymous
Post 12/16/2021 06:44     Subject: Re:What causes some women to continuously be in abusive, toxic relationships?
Low self esteem. Maybe could be caused by bad parenting but also possible in myriad other ways.
Anonymous
Post 12/16/2021 06:39     Subject: What causes some women to continuously be in abusive, toxic relationships?
Anonymous wrote:Why are women in toxic relationships? Because men are abusive and toxic. Once you are in there and the abuse starts, it's hard to get out. I didn't have money as I stayed home for a bit with a kid. I also was going to miss our child a lot. Finally got out, and almost killed myself for missing the child so much. He didn't want to child to see me. I left him, not the child.
Not easy to get out of any relationship as parts of lives a tied together now. I also want to say that I stayed clear of many crazy guys. Not sure why we are not discussing why there are so many crazies out there and why the abuse comes out later. And why it gets worse the minute women want to leave. You' think men would be happy to get rid of you, instead, they get worse.
I left a man who never left my side and because of that nobody would thing he was abusive. He locked the door on me few times to send me a message, and counted my bags when I got back from Safeway. How does such person even exist? This person will get into a relationship over and over again, but he won't be blamed, the women will. He is the good guy, the one that comes home you know.


Bingo.

There are SO many abusive men out there. It’s not rare or uncommon. I know many women in abusive relationships or who got out of them. I’ve run into dozens of abusive men while dating. Statistically, SOMEONE is going to end up with them.

Why are so many men abusive?
Anonymous
Post 12/16/2021 06:32     Subject: What causes some women to continuously be in abusive, toxic relationships?
Low self esteem. This is first hand knowledge.
Anonymous
Post 12/16/2021 06:02     Subject: What causes some women to continuously be in abusive, toxic relationships?
Why are women in toxic relationships? Because men are abusive and toxic. Once you are in there and the abuse starts, it's hard to get out. I didn't have money as I stayed home for a bit with a kid. I also was going to miss our child a lot. Finally got out, and almost killed myself for missing the child so much. He didn't want to child to see me. I left him, not the child.
Not easy to get out of any relationship as parts of lives a tied together now. I also want to say that I stayed clear of many crazy guys. Not sure why we are not discussing why there are so many crazies out there and why the abuse comes out later. And why it gets worse the minute women want to leave. You' think men would be happy to get rid of you, instead, they get worse.
I left a man who never left my side and because of that nobody would thing he was abusive. He locked the door on me few times to send me a message, and counted my bags when I got back from Safeway. How does such person even exist? This person will get into a relationship over and over again, but he won't be blamed, the women will. He is the good guy, the one that comes home you know.
Anonymous
Post 12/16/2021 05:40     Subject: What causes some women to continuously be in abusive, toxic relationships?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:For me it was codependency on my end, and a highly skilled abuser. All the love bombing to make me feel special, then he slowly turned up the heat. I never even knew what was happening.

Promises to change, he even did tons of therapy on his own and with me.

So much gaslighting, to the point I didn’t even know what was true and doubted my own sanity. Looking back I was so dumb for buying into it, but at the time, it felt very real. Just as an example, my xH had an amazing memory. He could see a stranger in a store, and recognize them on the street a year later. So if we disagreed on how an event in our marriage occurred (say, how a past disagreement went), he would position himself as the authority since his memory was so good. And even worse, he would come across as concerning. “Babe, your memory is really getting bad and I’m concerned. That’s not how it happened. I think we should get you to a doctor”. When my memory was totally fine.

Getting everybody on his side. Abusers are often extremely charming. After we divorced, everybody sided with him, even my own family. He convinced them I was having some sort of mental breakdown. Also isolated me from the people he knew would be in my corner.

And I don’t know how to explain it, but destroying my self esteem to the point of utter hopelessness. It wasn’t that I thought I couldn’t do better - rationally, I knew I could. But I was so beaten down that I couldn’t even get the energy to leave. It’s like, you just feel so bad about yourself, it doesn’t matter what happens. Happiness seems like something so unachievable, may as well stay and just move through life in a daze until you die.


OMG - this is my life. I won’t leave because he’s just going to find the narc supply with our eldest. It’s also been described as slow boiling a frog. By the time you realize what is happening, there are children to consider. Nothing would make them happier than your suicide. Goal achieved. I regret being so naive.


PP here. I hope you’re able to get out. I did, and life is so amazing now. Looking back I’m shocked I stayed as long as I did.

My kids were very young when I left, so he hadn’t yet started the abuse on them. Now they’re ES age and I can see the abusive behavior starting with them - and it’s exactly like the boiling frog all over again. I worry so much about how it’s going to get worse as they get older, but I document everything (in case I need to go for full custody) and work on giving DCs the skills to deal with it.

Good luck with everything
Anonymous
Post 12/16/2021 05:37     Subject: Re:What causes some women to continuously be in abusive, toxic relationships?
All I can say is you ignore the early signs at your peril. I thought I could handle my abuser. It escalated to the point that he threatened murder suicide more than once; and would like nothing more than to drive me to suicide so he could have our kid alone.
Anonymous
Post 12/16/2021 05:35     Subject: What causes some women to continuously be in abusive, toxic relationships?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:For me it was codependency on my end, and a highly skilled abuser. All the love bombing to make me feel special, then he slowly turned up the heat. I never even knew what was happening.

Promises to change, he even did tons of therapy on his own and with me.

So much gaslighting, to the point I didn’t even know what was true and doubted my own sanity. Looking back I was so dumb for buying into it, but at the time, it felt very real. Just as an example, my xH had an amazing memory. He could see a stranger in a store, and recognize them on the street a year later. So if we disagreed on how an event in our marriage occurred (say, how a past disagreement went), he would position himself as the authority since his memory was so good. And even worse, he would come across as concerning. “Babe, your memory is really getting bad and I’m concerned. That’s not how it happened. I think we should get you to a doctor”. When my memory was totally fine.

Getting everybody on his side. Abusers are often extremely charming. After we divorced, everybody sided with him, even my own family. He convinced them I was having some sort of mental breakdown. Also isolated me from the people he knew would be in my corner.

And I don’t know how to explain it, but destroying my self esteem to the point of utter hopelessness. It wasn’t that I thought I couldn’t do better - rationally, I knew I could. But I was so beaten down that I couldn’t even get the energy to leave. It’s like, you just feel so bad about yourself, it doesn’t matter what happens. Happiness seems like something so unachievable, may as well stay and just move through life in a daze until you die.


Basically this.except my abuser did not make any promise or attempts to change, he just denied the undeniable abuse and told me I was the crazy drama seeker and even the abuser. I was in therapy at the time and my therapist completely failed to spot the abuser and instead coached me to stay in the relationship. I later learned he himself had the hots for me so I think this happened so he could reassure himself he wasn’t holding me back. He absolutely was. I did not have the courage to move on though as I was almost 40.


PP. I’m so sorry you went through this. Therapy/counseling was a disaster for me as well, they just aren’t skilled at or trained to spot abuse. I’ll never forget how when our marriage counselor had a 1-on-1 session with xH, he convinced the counselor I had this huge list of mental problems ranging from borderline to being emotionally stuck at 14 to being incestuous with my family. The counselor bought it all hook, line, and sinker, even though they had spent only an hour with me and couldn’t possibly diagnose me with anything.

It’s especially awful your therapist was abusive as well, not acceptable to prey on a client like that. I hope you’re doing better now.
Anonymous
Post 12/16/2021 05:16     Subject: What causes some women to continuously be in abusive, toxic relationships?
Anonymous wrote:I think coming from a dysfunctional family where this sort of treatment is what is familiar to them and they don't seek help.

Also perhaps its like a frog in boiling water, it doesn't realise what's happening until too late. Things don't start out that way, their self esteem is undermined and then its all too hard.

They have kids really early and feel trapped.

Low self esteem

Mental illness


100% this. Easy mark. Even seemingly intelligent and successful people can fall for this. In my case I was so happy to have found the smart, educated, cultured, successful, helpful, honorable (or so I thought; a lot of it was just words) committed person I had hoped to marry that I didn’t comprehend the danger I was in when I excused his temper outbursts, controlling behaviors, denigration, critiques meant to “help” me, rejection of my values and friends, discounting of my needs and desires. All gradual over time and after I had staked more and more and eventually marriage and children, on the relationship bc I thought I had no alternatives especially once married (under pressure) and a parent (and unable to support a child alone).
Anonymous
Post 12/16/2021 05:11     Subject: What causes some women to continuously be in abusive, toxic relationships?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:How do you define abusive and toxic? What do they mean, exactly? Be specific.


Physically, mentally, emotionally, sexually. A man who will gaslight, speak down to his partner, hit them and coerce or force into sex acts. By toxic I mean constant fighting, breaking up and getting back together, codependency etc


These things are rarely one-sided.


Shut up, victim blamer.