Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The idea of socioeconomic class around here creates confusion as realistically the average HHI is significantly higher than elsewhere in the nation or even abroad. We are among the richest people in the world, here in the DC area. And yet when you look at your life, living in a small townhouse in a regular suburb driving a practical car like Subaru and sending your kids to public school, you feel like you’re just another regular American. The money doesn’t go far. A young couple bringing in 250k feel less than when really that’s top income globally.

At what point do you feel, well, not middle class?

400k

My husband and I make $435 and I feel very middle class (we are in our mid 30s). I’d say closer to $600K.

You must be referring to feeling ‘upper’ middle class. There’s no way at that hhi you would only feel middle class unless you have 10 kids or six figure debt or something.

Anonymous wrote:For me, the concept of middle class is you having to work for money.

If you have a signifiamout of income to live on without touching principles ( in my opinion , 500k plus) earnings passively, this is when you Hugo beyond middle class.

We earn over 1 mil a year, pay over 350k tax( became are w2). So what we actually spend is much less than our tax payment. I’ve just recently make this much, not enough passive income from investment to sustain lifestyle to not able to actively work. Thus we feel very middle class.

It not about how much income you have but how you get your income.

So by your definition someone that makes $2 million per year but somehow blows it all every year and thus still needs to work is middle class? Same with someone that blows everything they make and makes $10 million per year?

For me, the concept of middle class is you having to work for money.

If you have a signifiamout of income to live on without touching principles ( in my opinion , 500k plus) earnings passively, this is when you Hugo beyond middle class.

We earn over 1 mil a year, pay over 350k tax( became are w2). So what we actually spend is much less than our tax payment. I’ve just recently make this much, not enough passive income from investment to sustain lifestyle to not able to actively work. Thus we feel very middle class.

It not about how much income you have but how you get your income.

We make $250K HHHI I have friends that live in Winchester that are actually middle class (electrician, computer repair person, customer service rep). As a general matter, I think they spend more on stuff than I do but we save substantially more. Here are some of the main differences I've observed:

Retirement: We both max retirements plus backdoor roths whereas they only put in like 5% of salary to their 401K. I would estimate that we save approximately $45K more than them in retirement. I anticipate most of them will have to work until they are 65 whereas we will have the option to retire sooner if we want to (this is a huge difference).

Housing: Our house is a little bigger but not dramatically bigger. Obviously our house is significantly more expensive and will result in more home equity when we eventually sell. They still have nice houses that would be very expensive here.

College: My friend that I would guess makes the most is planning to pay for two years of college whereas we are planning to pay for four years at a state college.

Cars/other stuff: My friends spend substantially more than we do and have nicer/newer cars, phones, etc. than we do. However, that is a choice on our end, we certainly could buy all of the stuff that they do if we wanted to.

Bottom line is that while our day-to-day lives are (or could be) similar in terms of consumption choices we have the ability to save substantially more than they do which will provide us with significantly different options down the road and the additional savings makes us not middle class.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When you say “middle class” do you mean old days middle class, or nowadays middle class? There’s a difference. Nowadays middle class are actually pretty poor…struggling to pay bills and clipping coupons and forgoing college and health care because both are astronomical. In the old days middle class had the Subaru and took a summer vacation and so forth. Anyway, I agree with around $400k.

Middle class is not $400K. You are extremely wealthy, probably living in a million dollar house. Middle class live in small, $300-400K homes max or rent. They are living on a tight budget. They dont' have savings, retirement, etc.

Nonsense. Of course middle class people have savings. We live in a million dollar house - it is a 3 bedroom 1930 house on a busy road. We make over 400 K but nothing in our life is upper class - no private jets, no business class travel, no private schools.

300k, but we live in a much less expensive area compared to DC.

The problem is that socioeconomic status isn’t just about money. There is a huge socio part to it. So, I will always feel middle class because that is how I grew up and it is a part of me despite having a high income. Why does it matter how someone feels? We should talk about facts and how we allocate responsibilities like taxes based on facts. Income of X is high earning. I think it should be taxed at a higher rate than income of Y. None of this feeling stuff. It is too squishy and doesn’t move the conversation along. Just makes people crazy.

I also don't think you should have waited to have kids. My quibble was with "Ask the same couple 10 years later and they'll be much more comfortable."

The truth is, if they were making 400K and paying for all that, they were comfortable, esp compared to people making much less and trying to do the same things.

All that's changed is WHAT they spend their money on, not that they have it.

I don't particularly care if you felt grateful or feel like you should have waited till you have less debt, and that's not in my post.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It really depends how long you've been making the high income. Often the first few years of "professional pay" are following years in school and coincide with people starting families. So a couple can hit $400k HHI, but have $400k in educational debt and are very behind on retirement, be living in a pricy apartment near work, have two giant daycare bills for downtown centers, extra childcare bills to cover their intense work hours, lots of convenience food costs to support two busy careers with little kids, plus feel a need to save for a house down-payment (and potentially another car to shift to the suburbs), plus then furniture and tools to support the new house, etc. It's an expensive time of life. Ask the same couple 10 years later and they'll be much more comfortable.

They should not have taken so much debt, should have waited to have kids, and made different choices. Something is wrong if you cannot live comfortably on that even with the debt. We'd be very comfortable and we are comfortable making less than half of that.

I’m really loling at the idea I should have waited to have kids so I could have felt rich sooner. Those are some messed up priorities man.

Also the debt was necessary to make the money (prestigious law school). I was making $35k/yr before I left for law school. Definitely didn’t feel rich then!

No duh it is an expensive time of life, and no surprise you feel strapped after spending all of your money. People who say the above^"it just doesn't feel like a lot after I spend it all!" have lost a bit of perspective. Imagine trying to pay for all those same things on half or a quarter of that HHI.

Miss me with this. I do feel rich. I just didn’t feel rich BEFORE we hit $400k. I didn’t say I felt “strapped” or ungrateful or anything else like that.

And I’m so glad I didn’t let toxic silliness stop me from having my 3 kids before 35. Life is good and I spent my money on what mattered. Education, kids, family. What a wonderful life.

We make 340k but live in a very tony neighborhood for the schools and commute. Jokes on us though because we switched to parochial due to pandemic. I am grateful for what we have, but certainly not living a life of luxury. We max retiredment, save some but nothing fancy and modest vacations. Housing takes up majority of our costs but location is important to us. We are also the unicorns around here as both DH and I are from here with alll local family, so we benefit a lot from family help. It also means there is no viable “move for lower costs of living” option.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It really depends how long you've been making the high income. Often the first few years of "professional pay" are following years in school and coincide with people starting families. So a couple can hit $400k HHI, but have $400k in educational debt and are very behind on retirement, be living in a pricy apartment near work, have two giant daycare bills for downtown centers, extra childcare bills to cover their intense work hours, lots of convenience food costs to support two busy careers with little kids, plus feel a need to save for a house down-payment (and potentially another car to shift to the suburbs), plus then furniture and tools to support the new house, etc. It's an expensive time of life. Ask the same couple 10 years later and they'll be much more comfortable.

They should not have taken so much debt, should have waited to have kids, and made different choices. Something is wrong if you cannot live comfortably on that even with the debt. We'd be very comfortable and we are comfortable making less than half of that.

I’m really loling at the idea I should have waited to have kids so I could have felt rich sooner. Those are some messed up priorities man.

Also the debt was necessary to make the money (prestigious law school). I was making $35k/yr before I left for law school. Definitely didn’t feel rich then!

No duh it is an expensive time of life, and no surprise you feel strapped after spending all of your money. People who say the above^"it just doesn't feel like a lot after I spend it all!" have lost a bit of perspective. Imagine trying to pay for all those same things on half or a quarter of that HHI.

I make 250k and don’t feel middle class or umc. Not sure what I am but a have a lot of the same struggles as middle class but can enjoy some but not all of the umc benefits.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The idea of socioeconomic class around here creates confusion as realistically the average HHI is significantly higher than elsewhere in the nation or even abroad. We are among the richest people in the world, here in the DC area. And yet when you look at your life, living in a small townhouse in a regular suburb driving a practical car like Subaru and sending your kids to public school, you feel like you’re just another regular American. The money doesn’t go far. A young couple bringing in 250k feel less than when really that’s top income globally.

At what point do you feel, well, not middle class?

400k

My husband and I make $435 and I feel very middle class (we are in our mid 30s). I’d say closer to $600K.

You are pathetic

Anonymous wrote:500k we still didn’t feel well off because we had student loans, childcare expenses, etc

SO you were able to pay your student loans and childcare but didn't feel well off--because you were spending your money? You don't think your lifestyle at 500K is much better than someone also paying student loans and childcare but only making 100K? Really?

Anonymous wrote:125. You all are scary wealthy and not middle class.

125 without kids…