My fourth grader is at a different CES and the teacher is tough and unsympathetic. The volume of written work is immense and she grades extremely strictly, with failing grades for petty reasons. There are a lot of very unhappy kids in her class. I hear that fifth grade is a breeze in comparison.

Anonymous wrote:CC is in an odd position because the feeder schools are all pretty good and I think most have ELC so there needs to be some persuasive reason to go there. I think it’s very disruptive socially to leave for 2 years so would not be inclined to do it unless they are very extroverted and make friends easily. I think it’s particularly hard for girls of that age to switch groups and then have to re-enter the neighborhood school in 2 years. When my kids went, it was very heavy on CC local kids for these reasons. I don’t think there were any KP kids, for instance.

No, most don't have ELC. That's one of the problems.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Do we really have to hash this out again? It was already 85+ percentile for CES starting 2018, when they changed to universal pooling from the former opt-in method. So the current CES 5th graders are 85+ percentile. I imagine it's not so different from the 75+ percentile.

Why not 65% even? Shouldn’t be too different right? Or even 50%? Why not just lottery the whole system? Why does anyone need enrichment?

PP was answering OP's question about the relative experience of the current CES 4th graders compared to those of previous years. Other comments confirm the experience is not that different. You, on the other hand, are providing an answer to a question that wasn't even asked.

The PPP was responding to who exactly and what question? No, they were trying to make a point that 75% is not substantively different in terms of quality of the student than 85%. I think it’s a valid question about appropriate cutoffs. Why indeed not 65%? Why indeed. If it increases representation but has no substantive impact on the learning environment. Why not.

Anonymous wrote:PP here - sorry I didn’t mean to imply past Center class had behavioral issues. They also were well behaved. I do wonder if a lottery that is based on grades and achievement scores gets mostly kids who do well in school which has as much to do with executive functions as other kinds of intelligence. But this is all conjecture. Main point is the program still is terrific and I wish every school had the ELC!

One of the 4th grade teachers is super, super kind and warm. Loves complimenting the kids and giving them a lot of positive reinforcement. I’m sure I know who that teacher is.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Do we really have to hash this out again? It was already 85+ percentile for CES starting 2018, when they changed to universal pooling from the former opt-in method. So the current CES 5th graders are 85+ percentile. I imagine it's not so different from the 75+ percentile.

Why not 65% even? Shouldn’t be too different right? Or even 50%? Why not just lottery the whole system? Why does anyone need enrichment?

PP was answering OP's question about the relative experience of the current CES 4th graders compared to those of previous years. Other comments confirm the experience is not that different. You, on the other hand, are providing an answer to a question that wasn't even asked.

PP here - sorry I didn’t mean to imply past Center class had behavioral issues. They also were well behaved. I do wonder if a lottery that is based on grades and achievement scores gets mostly kids who do well in school which has as much to do with executive functions as other kinds of intelligence. But this is all conjecture. Main point is the program still is terrific and I wish every school had the ELC!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For those in 4th grade CES this year at Chevy Chase - how much homework per day would you say your child is doing?

Not tons. Maybe some math or word study that gets done at the aftercare.

There are LOTS of projects though. Seems like there's a new one to work on every few weeks lately.

When DC went through the program the 4th grade at CCES CES was low on homework but high on in class work and projects. Kids needed to be focused and efficient with their use of time in class because they would be required to do a lot of work independently on their Chromebooks and in groups. As well as the bigger projects.

The 5th Grade is another story. Like night and day. It was extremely rigorous in terms of the amount of homework and in part the writing. A lot of writing and it was graded harshly with little sympathy.

Both dynamics were excellent for my DC. In retrospect, 4th grade was about learning to love school and learning itself, as well helping with time management skills and being able to deliver under stress. 5th grade was really about challenging yourself to see how hard you are willing to work to excel. It was painful for DC but necessary. DC is a lot more self-motivated now than before.

I cannot say enough about it. The teachers are fantastic and the curriculum is interesting and innovative in terms of what they have done that deviates from the typical MCPS curriculum.

However, I do suspect that with lowering selectivity they are not going to be able to be so rigorous and I also suspect that there is a knock in effect where higher performing students are more likely to stay at home schools, particularly for the Whitman and WJ clusters that are further away.

CC is in an odd position because the feeder schools are all pretty good and I think most have ELC so there needs to be some persuasive reason to go there. I think it’s very disruptive socially to leave for 2 years so would not be inclined to do it unless they are very extroverted and make friends easily. I think it’s particularly hard for girls of that age to switch groups and then have to re-enter the neighborhood school in 2 years. When my kids went, it was very heavy on CC local kids for these reasons. I don’t think there were any KP kids, for instance.

Anonymous wrote:
Do we really have to hash this out again? It was already 85+ percentile for CES starting 2018, when they changed to universal pooling from the former opt-in method. So the current CES 5th graders are 85+ percentile. I imagine it's not so different from the 75+ percentile.

Why not 65% even? Shouldn’t be too different right? Or even 50%? Why not just lottery the whole system? Why does anyone need enrichment?

A lot of what PP wrote seems to make sense. Before 2018 it was application so children who did not feel they fit their neighborhood school would be the ones applying out.

Anecdotally I know a higher percentage of students in our school who turned it down last year than in previous years. It makes sense that if the five kids who you think are the top in your school weren't randomly selected that you know you'll have a peer group and probably not worth the change or commute for 2 years. If you're already at Chevy Chase saying yes to the program is a no brainer which is probably why there are more of them this year.

I don't think you outed yourself. Every year there are a number of families who had a child a few years older who was also at the center.

FWIW the kids were really well behaved in my child's year too and it was not a lottery.

I think it may be related more to covid. I think some children are more grateful to be back in school and more scared to misbehave.

Who knows? But I'm not sure how having a lottery might relate to behavior. I know she's not making that connection but it seems random. DC's teacher a few years ago when universal selection happened said it was her best class yet in terms of performance which seemed to make sense. But she might just say that every year.

Since parent volunteers are not allowed in the building much this year, it really would be hard to say how things are going. However, DS’s teacher repeatedly says this might be her best class yet comments on how well behaved the class is. I don’t know why - maybe to reassure parents? Positive reinforcement? She definitely did not say that with my older (pre 2018) child LOL (Also am pretty sure I outed myself now in case she is reading this). But I can say the classmates are all great and the curriculum is the same as when my older daughter was in the program (except that math is now Eureka but math technically is not “Center” math.). I think though I can’t be sure that the age skews higher. I only think that based on my child’s friends but I don’t have everyone’s ages obviously. However it would make sense. The cogAT was eliminated and used to be age adjusted by month so it used to pick up on the fact that a child might be a full year or more than classmates and, all other things being equal, that child would be more likely to be selected than a child a year older. There are more students from CCES too - possibly because more parents opted not to do the bus commute in this covid year so they went deeper into waitpool and local students were more likely to say yes. That has been great for us as CCES is our home school. What I cannot tell is whether the Center is reaching students who really really needed the Center - that top 1 or 2 percent. I dorn’t know the classmates enough this year because of the pandemic. But in my older child’s year, there were definitely some outliers at the high end. Also the rumor (not sure if true) was that the old (pre-2018) selection process did tend to pick quirkier kids who might be isolated at their home school. Not sure how true that is but anecdotally it did seem to make sense. There also were kids who were actually doing poorly in grades before the Center who excelled at the Center once appropriately challenged. I doubt they are in this year’s class because there was no cogAT to identify them and grades/MAPs were required. I remember parents saying the Center saved their children. But I do wonder if that is why the Center teacher has noted the behavior difference. Which may be great for the teacher but I worry about those kids in every class that really needed this program. I also have compared the Center curriculum to ELC at North Chevy Chase and it seems to be the same so I also would consider if your home school has ELC. Finally, I agree that the percentile threshold generally matched prior averages (with possible exception of the different thresholds for FARMs and Spec Ed students but I think they adjusted for that in the past too but not publicly). The difference is the cogAT not being available.

Standards for grading all seem to be similar to the past too.