Oh and to the pp above with the budget vacations, I’d be friends with you, you guys sound great. I’m the pp with the ikea furniture

DH and I are you and my brother and his wife are your SIL. For a long time I felt jealous of what they have - okay, sometimes I still am. Their money (gained mostly through hard work, but some through SIL’s inheritance) means they have a beautiful house, can travel, etc. But one day my brother and I were talking and he said “we really admire you and the decisions you’ve made.” He was talking about how we approach money (we work to live, and calibrate our hours to pay all our bills while having plenty of time for kids and hobbies). And I realized that the admiration goes both ways. There are trade offs for both of our choices. I try to remember that we have many things they don’t (time, peace, easy-going-ness) and they have things we don’t. You can’t have everything in life, you just make choices about what is most important. When it comes down to it, time and peace are more important to me than excellence or achievement, especially of material things. I wouldn’t want to change those values, even if I would like a nice house!

I live in a dc neighborhood like this. We are successful by normal non-dc standards, but we don’t spend much money on our home (ikea furniture and estate sale stuff is fine for us!!!). That said there are some people I will not invite over because id just be embarrassed. We invite their kids over for play dates but I’d never host a cocktail party in our house! We have found others like us it just takes some work to find them.

This is a very narrow ideal of excellence, though. I don't disagree that it is laudable. I have friends like this and I very much appreciate the energy they bring to their lives and how hard they work at their careers and arranging their life just so. We are visiting friends like this today, actually -- they are hosting because they are so good at it and their house is perfectly conducive to it. I am grateful to have them in my life.

But something I learned a long time ago is that if you let go of the idea that this is the "best" or only way to live, you can find ways to perfect who you are more naturally and make your life very beautiful and enjoyable, all without having to somehow become the same as these people (I will never have the ambition or energy or attention to detail for that, much less the money).

My family lives in a small home, but it is artfully decorated with lots of color and items from our travels. I love the color of Scandinavian design but the relaxed vibe of continental eclecticism and our home marries those ideas. Anyone can pick up a copy of Architectural Digest and get ideas, even for a little bungalow with an unrenovated kitchen. I love little details like buying fresh flowers for the dining table every week and putting out DD's colorful artwork from school in proper frames. Is it perfect? Not at all. Is it charming and pleasant? Yes.

And we bring the same ethos to the rest of our life. We go on budget vacations but we put extra effort into finding the best little budget hotel in Vienna. We own a nice camera and take artful but imperfect photos. Our child is not athletic but she is kind and artistically inclined and loves to read, and we encourage those interests and adore her and she flourishes in her own way. Our careers are not high flying or highly paid, but we have exceptional work-life balance that allows us plenty of leisure time for cooking, baking, hiking, and other more relaxed pursuits.

I think we have a very enviable life. Our friends who are like your SIL sometimes envy it, even, because the energy and dedication that goes into what they do must be intense. Being less ambitious, less wealthy, less beautiful or athletic or perfect, does not have to mean being a lazy slob. Lean into what you love and what you are best at. It's cheesy, but being the best version of yourself instead of trying to be a pale imitation of a totally different sort of person is a good approach to life.

Born this way PP. Another thought popped in my head after re-reading all the comments about how exhausting it must be to be this couple. I stand by my previous sentiment that it’s generally not exhausting bc we were born this way, but do also knowledge there are times it’s overwhelming (eg, biting off more than you can chew on the Thanksgiving menu).

But isn’t it also exhausting to be Type B?! We have two sets of long term friend who are lovely and gloriously Type B. While pregnant, we recommended getting on day care waitlists and reading up on infant sleep techniques. No dice. Those kids were born and the parents were SHOCKED that you couldn’t sign up for daycare a month or so before you needed it. Complaints abound about this grandma not respecting wishes, hiding kids on Zoom etc. They moan about their kids not sleeping, but when we have suggested some ideas, they look at us bizarrely and say their kids are just naturally bad sleepers.

I acknowledge that my Type A ness will backfire at some point during parenting, but I look at these friends and think their path must be exhausting too! Especially when a little front end discipline would have saved so much headache.

I'm type B but it's a low bar to seem put together. I don't line up my furniture against the wall and have original art and fresh flowers? BAM my friends and family think my house is nicely decorated. Blowout my hair and wear lipgloss? BAM my coworkers says I'm so pretty. I'm convinced even the most minimal efforts will be recognized by family and friends because they like you. So if you really want to try, just try a little. You might like it.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We’re exactly this type of couple, OP. Two former athletes and high achievers who met at Harvard Business School. Attractive and have done very well professionally. (Well enough that I don’t even think about our income anymore, just our net worth. We’re mid 30s and worth several million.)

What I can tell you is that we’re all just born this way/different. DH and I are high energy and super disciplined. It’s just naturally who we are. We have plenty of Type B (or less Type A friends) and I am often annoyed and fascinated by them. What do you mean it’s the Tuesday before thanksgiving and you haven’t planned out your oven schedule yet?! Get. It. Together! Oh wow, you took that disappointment so well - wish I were as cool as a cucumber like you.

So know that these people are not superior to you. And they’re not inferior to you either. Just simply different.

Op here. That’s so interesting. What drives you? What were you like a child? How were you raised?


I don’t have the drive and discipline but want all the things they have. I want a nice body. I want a nice house. I want to be well planned and organized.I want to be disciplined and pass on these traits and habits to my children.

What can I do since I’m not naturally like this?

Hmm. Good questions. I’m reminded of a quote I read as a kid. “We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence then is not an act, but a habit.” I think this is a big part of it - just having consistently high expectations of myself. For example, I considered replying to this tomorrow when I could give it more thought and time. I always think like that: how can I be excellent in this task.

I personally was like this as a kid. I loved school and was super organized. Apparently teachers commented on it even. I grew up MC and always looked at the fancy people on the nice side of town. I knew I was as smart as them, but that I just didn’t have the same set of cards. Decades later I’ve honestly lapped most them professionally/financially. I got ahead with smarts, luck, and sheer work ethic - I learned quickly that I could outwork them. Not all, but many.

I’ll also say I really, really enjoy delayed gratification. I think you have to focus on the joy of the prize 6, 12, 18 months away and know that it will always be sweeter than the prize today.

I’m not saying this is full proof. I’m literally in therapy for my perfectionism. But I can wholeheartedly say that if I had to do it all over again, I would much rather be born Type A than not.

Anonymous wrote:We’re exactly this type of couple, OP. Two former athletes and high achievers who met at Harvard Business School. Attractive and have done very well professionally. (Well enough that I don’t even think about our income anymore, just our net worth. We’re mid 30s and worth several million.)

What I can tell you is that we’re all just born this way/different. DH and I are high energy and super disciplined. It’s just naturally who we are. We have plenty of Type B (or less Type A friends) and I am often annoyed and fascinated by them. What do you mean it’s the Tuesday before thanksgiving and you haven’t planned out your oven schedule yet?! Get. It. Together! Oh wow, you took that disappointment so well - wish I were as cool as a cucumber like you.

So know that these people are not superior to you. And they’re not inferior to you either. Just simply different.

Op here. That’s so interesting. What drives you? What were you like a child? How were you raised?


I don’t have the drive and discipline but want all the things they have. I want a nice body. I want a nice house. I want to be well planned and organized.I want to be disciplined and pass on these traits and habits to my children.

What can I do since I’m not naturally like this?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's not that hard for most young & well-off couples to present like that OP. Just wait until kids come rolling around.
What would be truly amazing is if they still presented that way in middle age with multiple kids.

Most of the people I knew who were like this before kids are still this way. None have let themselves go the way the people who didn't have it all together before did. It's not that rare in circles like this. When you have enough money you can outsource a lot of the work so there's plenty of time to stay in shape, eat well, decorate well, etc. They aren't going to get the comeuppance you are hoping for.

I wasn't the person that posted this -- you are correct about outsourcing a lot of childcare and keeping it up! However, being raised by the nanny and housekeeper are a lot different than being raised by a present mom/dad. The kids might turn out fine. But higher probability that they do not. And that goes for just about any SES class.

My oldest two are young adults, so I had a chance to observe many families over the years. There is a very high probability that driven and high achieving parents end up with similarly driven and high achieving kids. If the parents themselves enjoy physical activities, there will be family bike rides and skiing. If the parents are avid readers, there will be weekly trips to the library. Etc, etc. The kids who didn't turn out fine are an exception rather than the rule.

Anonymous wrote:We’re exactly this type of couple, OP. Two former athletes and high achievers who met at Harvard Business School. Attractive and have done very well professionally. (Well enough that I don’t even think about our income anymore, just our net worth. We’re mid 30s and worth several million.)

What I can tell you is that we’re all just born this way/different. DH and I are high energy and super disciplined. It’s just naturally who we are. We have plenty of Type B (or less Type A friends) and I am often annoyed and fascinated by them. What do you mean it’s the Tuesday before thanksgiving and you haven’t planned out your oven schedule yet?! Get. It. Together! Oh wow, you took that disappointment so well - wish I were as cool as a cucumber like you.

So know that these people are not superior to you. And they’re not inferior to you either. Just simply different.

THIS, 100%! I was chatting with a friend the Saturday before Thanksgiving and when I asked what her plans were she told me they were "last minute planners" so she wasn't sure if they were hosting at their house or going to a relative's or maybe a friend's.... and my brain exploded. We have relatives in town staying with us all arriving and leaving on different days, and DH and I have a list in our bedroom of each date, who's arriving, which room they're staying in, and what we need to do when they leave to get the room clean after they go, and what date they leave, what time we're driving to the airport on which days, which activities and meals we have reservations for, etc. It took us five minutes to slap this together.

Oh, and btw, DH and I only wear solid colors so it often looks like we're coordinated but we haven't discussed anything but how formally we're dressing for an event. I'll wear junky t shirts (like old concert ones) to sleep and DH wears them to work out.

I’m tired just thinking about what is required to live their kind of life, even if I had the money. Not to mention the pressure.

I like being average. I’d hate feeling like if I plumped up or wore a dorky outfit my husband would think less of me.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's not that hard for most young & well-off couples to present like that OP. Just wait until kids come rolling around.
What would be truly amazing is if they still presented that way in middle age with multiple kids.

Most of the people I knew who were like this before kids are still this way. None have let themselves go the way the people who didn't have it all together before did. It's not that rare in circles like this. When you have enough money you can outsource a lot of the work so there's plenty of time to stay in shape, eat well, decorate well, etc. They aren't going to get the comeuppance you are hoping for.

I wasn't the person that posted this -- you are correct about outsourcing a lot of childcare and keeping it up! However, being raised by the nanny and housekeeper are a lot different than being raised by a present mom/dad. The kids might turn out fine. But higher probability that they do not. And that goes for just about any SES class.

+1
That was the point- kids are the real coin toss that none of us have any control of.
Sure money solves many problems in life, but is it rare that we see examples of unmotivated/ entitled/ not particularly bright or athletic/ normal looking kids from star couples?

Sounds like the point PP was trying to make was that the parents will be fat with a messy house, ie the "way they present" which says nothing of the actual kids. The people I know who are like this only have kids in high school but so far, there too, the kids are doing well and over achievers. They just aren't going to be easily knocked down a few pegs in some karmic reckoning.

Ok? Good for you??

Yeah, I guess, good for me. It's better than being jealous of what others have and hoping their kids are messed up so that the miserable SOBs feel better about themselves.

+1

Most of the people on this board fall into the "miserable loser" category, though

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's not that hard for most young & well-off couples to present like that OP. Just wait until kids come rolling around.
What would be truly amazing is if they still presented that way in middle age with multiple kids.

Most of the people I knew who were like this before kids are still this way. None have let themselves go the way the people who didn't have it all together before did. It's not that rare in circles like this. When you have enough money you can outsource a lot of the work so there's plenty of time to stay in shape, eat well, decorate well, etc. They aren't going to get the comeuppance you are hoping for.

I wasn't the person that posted this -- you are correct about outsourcing a lot of childcare and keeping it up! However, being raised by the nanny and housekeeper are a lot different than being raised by a present mom/dad. The kids might turn out fine. But higher probability that they do not. And that goes for just about any SES class.

+1
That was the point- kids are the real coin toss that none of us have any control of.
Sure money solves many problems in life, but is it rare that we see examples of unmotivated/ entitled/ not particularly bright or athletic/ normal looking kids from star couples?

Sounds like the point PP was trying to make was that the parents will be fat with a messy house, ie the "way they present" which says nothing of the actual kids. The people I know who are like this only have kids in high school but so far, there too, the kids are doing well and over achievers. They just aren't going to be easily knocked down a few pegs in some karmic reckoning.

Ok? Good for you??

Yeah, I guess, good for me. It's better than being jealous of what others have and hoping their kids are messed up so that the miserable SOBs feel better about themselves.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's not that hard for most young & well-off couples to present like that OP. Just wait until kids come rolling around.
What would be truly amazing is if they still presented that way in middle age with multiple kids.

Most of the people I knew who were like this before kids are still this way. None have let themselves go the way the people who didn't have it all together before did. It's not that rare in circles like this. When you have enough money you can outsource a lot of the work so there's plenty of time to stay in shape, eat well, decorate well, etc. They aren't going to get the comeuppance you are hoping for.

I wasn't the person that posted this -- you are correct about outsourcing a lot of childcare and keeping it up! However, being raised by the nanny and housekeeper are a lot different than being raised by a present mom/dad. The kids might turn out fine. But higher probability that they do not. And that goes for just about any SES class.

+1
That was the point- kids are the real coin toss that none of us have any control of.
Sure money solves many problems in life, but is it rare that we see examples of unmotivated/ entitled/ not particularly bright or athletic/ normal looking kids from star couples?

Sounds like the point PP was trying to make was that the parents will be fat with a messy house, ie the "way they present" which says nothing of the actual kids. The people I know who are like this only have kids in high school but so far, there too, the kids are doing well and over achievers. They just aren't going to be easily knocked down a few pegs in some karmic reckoning.

Ok? Good for you??

DH and I sound like the couple you described. Nothing is ever this perfect and what it seems from the outside. Our house is always perfect because that is how we handle anxiety (making sure things we can control are perfect). We also don’t share a lot of what we’re going through with our family (some health issues).

Agree with the PP who said they were born this way. I’ve always been like this and just so happened to marry someone who is similar. We don’t strive to have it all together or appear perfect, it’s just how we handle life.