Anonymous
10/27/2021 18:39
Subject: Re:Is Shakespeare not taught in DCPS?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:What’s the value of Shakespeare in the curriculum? Is it for your nostalgic reasons? Just because it’s always been done, does that mean it’s always been right? Do you want to still teach Columbus as a savior and hero?
Because one cannot be properly educated in English literature without an understanding of Shakespeare.
Reason number 363,724,623,629,252 my kids are in private schools. DS 12th grade is having an entire semester of Shakespeare.
Disagree. If you mean England and their version of events sure. I suppose some exposure to the plays would be helpful culturally. But, the ONLY reason he is so "important" is because of the push to make him important. Their are tons of other better authors and more interesting books for youth than Shakespeare. And, yes I read in school, I took 2 terms of old English and Shakespeare and the like... I enjoyed it.. but I also enjoyed taking Native American lit, African and Middle eastern, women in lit and South America lit.. truthfully more of that or at least more inclusive lit classes and less time on old dead white guys would have been better.
Curious what Native American authors you studied? Yes, you could study African, middle eastern, and South American authors, but this is a more specialized world literature class and not a replacement for regular English literature. Very telling how you leave out the great writers from Russia (Dostoyevsky), Germany (Goethe), Italy (Dante), France (Hugo, Balzac), Spain (Cervantes), which arguably had a greater cultural influence than any of the authors in your list.
Personally I think most students are better served studying the classics, pejoratively called ‘dead white men’. I’ll make sure my child’s reading list consists of classics (Homer, Chaucer, Shakespeare, Dickens) instead of the flavor of the month heavily tinged by political activism.
Anonymous
10/27/2021 18:29
Subject: Re:Is Shakespeare not taught in DCPS?
Anonymous wrote:We don’t care about him, he’s boring.
You only say that because you haven't read the sexy stuff.
Anonymous
10/27/2021 18:27
Subject: Is Shakespeare not taught in DCPS?
Being exposed to and reading Shakespeare helps build the background knowledge and vocabulary that helps students comprehend more difficult texts. That's one reason to read Shakespeare.
But I taught it just for the sheer joy of it. Besides, there are such wonderful Shakespeare resources in DC, including the Shakespeare Theater and the Folger Library.
My 5th graders watched A Midsummer Night's Dream at the Shakespeare Theater when it was filled with students from all over the DC area. When the lovers jumped into the orchestra pit which was filled with water for a water fight, the entire theater erupted so boisterously that the actors themselves lost it and cracked up.
My students were ready for the performance because we read the play in class and even put on our mini-version at school. One of my most difficult students was cast as Oberon. His classmates prompted him in whispers when he stumbled over his lines. His Mom watched from the back of the classroom. Wonderful memories of a time when DCPS teachers were allowed to enrich the curriculum.
But I taught it just for the sheer joy of it. Besides, there are such wonderful Shakespeare resources in DC, including the Shakespeare Theater and the Folger Library.
My 5th graders watched A Midsummer Night's Dream at the Shakespeare Theater when it was filled with students from all over the DC area. When the lovers jumped into the orchestra pit which was filled with water for a water fight, the entire theater erupted so boisterously that the actors themselves lost it and cracked up.
My students were ready for the performance because we read the play in class and even put on our mini-version at school. One of my most difficult students was cast as Oberon. His classmates prompted him in whispers when he stumbled over his lines. His Mom watched from the back of the classroom. Wonderful memories of a time when DCPS teachers were allowed to enrich the curriculum.
Anonymous
10/27/2021 18:19
Subject: Is Shakespeare not taught in DCPS?
We already heard that Wilson teaches R and J in 9th grade - is it true that SWW teaches no Shakespeare at all? This whole "DCPS teaches no Shakespeare" might just be a tempest in a teapot.
Anonymous
10/27/2021 18:11
Subject: Re:Is Shakespeare not taught in DCPS?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:What’s the value of Shakespeare in the curriculum? Is it for your nostalgic reasons? Just because it’s always been done, does that mean it’s always been right? Do you want to still teach Columbus as a savior and hero?
Wow, what an incredibly ignorant comment.
Still haven’t heard a valid reason. Just because he because he “started” the English language does that mean that we don’t acknowledge one can learn the language and have proper command of the language without it? Seriously what’s a valid reason it’s required in your eyes?
No, stupid, he didn't "start" the English language. Shakespeare is, however, a revolutionary in early modern English.
But that isn't why we teach him. We teach him because his plays present the psychology and dynamics of our human experiences like no other. The fact that this work was produced hundreds of years ago underscores the unifying elements of what it is to be human.
I can't explain it in a clearer way if you haven't read or (most likely) didn't understand the Shakespeare to which you were exposed.
Correct. Reading him puts my own life in perspective: across wide gulfs of time and culture, there is a shared human experience of hopes and passions and flaws and lusts and wit and tragedy and -- ultimately -- mortality.
Anonymous
10/27/2021 18:11
Subject: Re:Is Shakespeare not taught in DCPS?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:What’s the value of Shakespeare in the curriculum? Is it for your nostalgic reasons? Just because it’s always been done, does that mean it’s always been right? Do you want to still teach Columbus as a savior and hero?
Because one cannot be properly educated in English literature without an understanding of Shakespeare.
Reason number 363,724,623,629,252 my kids are in private schools. DS 12th grade is having an entire semester of Shakespeare.
Disagree. If you mean England and their version of events sure. I suppose some exposure to the plays would be helpful culturally. But, the ONLY reason he is so "important" is because of the push to make him important. Their are tons of other better authors and more interesting books for youth than Shakespeare. And, yes I read in school, I took 2 terms of old English and Shakespeare and the like... I enjoyed it.. but I also enjoyed taking Native American lit, African and Middle eastern, women in lit and South America lit.. truthfully more of that or at least more inclusive lit classes and less time on old dead white guys would have been better.
All of the subsequent literature you mention (Native American, women in lit, African, etc.) is only possible to understand and comprehend in Anglo society, because of Shakespeare. His writing and use of the language is peerless. I promise that of all of the "womens lit" classes you took, you did not encounter an author as important to the foundation of culture and society as Shakespeare.
And it doesn't matter if there are (not "their are") "tons" of more interesting books for youth than Shakespeare. School is not a candy factory, dumbed down to the level of teaching what is of interest to teenagers. Sixteen year olds don't know what they need to know. It is up to educated adults to present to students the information that they need to read and digest in order to become properly educated, literate, functioning members of society, and to advance their way in academia. If you don't understand that, your education failed you.
Anonymous
10/27/2021 18:09
Subject: Is Shakespeare not taught in DCPS?
Anonymous wrote:Yes, that's true but at that time people were already complaining about a lack of the classics in K-12 while my kid was getting tons of exposure to Shakespeare. So I don't trust complaints on DCUM about lack of Shakespeare because I've seen this movie before.Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Oh puh-lease, my kid hasn't been in K-12 for awhile but she got a boatload of Shakespeare at DCPS. I'm not worried about Shakespeare's future in our educational system.
Yes it’s pretty obvious that your kid hasn’t been in DCPS for awhile. Next?
You’re watching a different movie. Times have changed. But you can ignore the real experience of current students if you like.
Anonymous
10/27/2021 18:03
Subject: Re:Is Shakespeare not taught in DCPS?
We don’t care about him, he’s boring.
Anonymous
10/27/2021 17:38
Subject: Re:Is Shakespeare not taught in DCPS?
lol. Not my teen experience.. not at all.Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:What’s the value of Shakespeare in the curriculum? Is it for your nostalgic reasons? Just because it’s always been done, does that mean it’s always been right? Do you want to still teach Columbus as a savior and hero?
What an astoundingly ignorant comment (from someone who has probably never read Shakespeare, I’m guessing). Maya Angelou said that “Shakespeare must’ve been a black girl” because his words spoke to her soul. Great literature speaks to us all.
From the Atlantic:
Angelou explained how as a young girl who once read (with no claim, necessarily, to understanding) every book in the tiny library in Stamps, Arkansas, she thought that the author of Sonnet 29 must have been a black girl because its solemn words expressed so fiercely what she—an outcast, the victim of racism, destitution, and childhood sexual abuse, crying out alone before a deaf heaven—felt inside:
When in disgrace with Fortune and men's eyes,
I all alone beweep my outcast state,
And trouble deaf heaven with my bootless cries,
And look upon myself and curse my fate,
Wishing me like to one more rich in hope,
Featured like him, like him with friends possess'd,
Desiring this man's art, and that man's scope,
With what I most enjoy contented least.
Yet in these thoughts myself almost despising,
Haply I think on thee, and then my state,
Like to the lark at break of day arising
From sullen earth, sings hymns at heaven's gate;
For thy sweet love remember'd such wealth brings
That then I scorn to change my state with kings.
And when Angelou recited them to us, these words sounded indeed like they had sprung forth from her soul.
It also speaks to the ability of Shakepeare to capture teen experiences like no other.
Anonymous
10/27/2021 17:37
Subject: Re:Is Shakespeare not taught in DCPS?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:What’s the value of Shakespeare in the curriculum? Is it for your nostalgic reasons? Just because it’s always been done, does that mean it’s always been right? Do you want to still teach Columbus as a savior and hero?
Because one cannot be properly educated in English literature without an understanding of Shakespeare.
Reason number 363,724,623,629,252 my kids are in private schools. DS 12th grade is having an entire semester of Shakespeare.
Disagree. If you mean England and their version of events sure. I suppose some exposure to the plays would be helpful culturally. But, the ONLY reason he is so "important" is because of the push to make him important. Their are tons of other better authors and more interesting books for youth than Shakespeare. And, yes I read in school, I took 2 terms of old English and Shakespeare and the like... I enjoyed it.. but I also enjoyed taking Native American lit, African and Middle eastern, women in lit and South America lit.. truthfully more of that or at least more inclusive lit classes and less time on old dead white guys would have been better.
Anonymous
10/27/2021 17:17
Subject: Is Shakespeare not taught in DCPS?
Yes, that's true but at that time people were already complaining about a lack of the classics in K-12 while my kid was getting tons of exposure to Shakespeare. So I don't trust complaints on DCUM about lack of Shakespeare because I've seen this movie before.Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Oh puh-lease, my kid hasn't been in K-12 for awhile but she got a boatload of Shakespeare at DCPS. I'm not worried about Shakespeare's future in our educational system.
Yes it’s pretty obvious that your kid hasn’t been in DCPS for awhile. Next?
Anonymous
10/27/2021 16:45
Subject: Re:Is Shakespeare not taught in DCPS?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:What’s the value of Shakespeare in the curriculum? Is it for your nostalgic reasons? Just because it’s always been done, does that mean it’s always been right? Do you want to still teach Columbus as a savior and hero?
What an astoundingly ignorant comment (from someone who has probably never read Shakespeare, I’m guessing). Maya Angelou said that “Shakespeare must’ve been a black girl” because his words spoke to her soul. Great literature speaks to us all.
From the Atlantic:
Angelou explained how as a young girl who once read (with no claim, necessarily, to understanding) every book in the tiny library in Stamps, Arkansas, she thought that the author of Sonnet 29 must have been a black girl because its solemn words expressed so fiercely what she—an outcast, the victim of racism, destitution, and childhood sexual abuse, crying out alone before a deaf heaven—felt inside:
When in disgrace with Fortune and men's eyes,
I all alone beweep my outcast state,
And trouble deaf heaven with my bootless cries,
And look upon myself and curse my fate,
Wishing me like to one more rich in hope,
Featured like him, like him with friends possess'd,
Desiring this man's art, and that man's scope,
With what I most enjoy contented least.
Yet in these thoughts myself almost despising,
Haply I think on thee, and then my state,
Like to the lark at break of day arising
From sullen earth, sings hymns at heaven's gate;
For thy sweet love remember'd such wealth brings
That then I scorn to change my state with kings.
And when Angelou recited them to us, these words sounded indeed like they had sprung forth from her soul.
It also speaks to the ability of Shakepeare to capture teen experiences like no other.
Anonymous
10/27/2021 16:43
Subject: Is Shakespeare not taught in DCPS?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Also, how can a kid ever appreciate the genuis that is, "10 Things I hate about you" if they've never read Shakespeare? Best teen movie ever, with "Drop Dead Gorgeous" as a close second.
Is The Lion King a re-telling of Hamlet? Discuss.
Indeed!
See also:
West Side Story
O
My Own Private Idaho
Kiss Me Kate
Romeo + Juliet (though since this is the play verbatim, not sure it counts. But I need to rewatch it.)
and all the gender/bending films like Just One of the Guys
Anonymous
10/27/2021 16:40
Subject: Re:Is Shakespeare not taught in DCPS?
Anonymous wrote:What’s the value of Shakespeare in the curriculum? Is it for your nostalgic reasons? Just because it’s always been done, does that mean it’s always been right? Do you want to still teach Columbus as a savior and hero?
What an astoundingly ignorant comment (from someone who has probably never read Shakespeare, I’m guessing). Maya Angelou said that “Shakespeare must’ve been a black girl” because his words spoke to her soul. Great literature speaks to us all.
From the Atlantic:
Angelou explained how as a young girl who once read (with no claim, necessarily, to understanding) every book in the tiny library in Stamps, Arkansas, she thought that the author of Sonnet 29 must have been a black girl because its solemn words expressed so fiercely what she—an outcast, the victim of racism, destitution, and childhood sexual abuse, crying out alone before a deaf heaven—felt inside:
When in disgrace with Fortune and men's eyes,
I all alone beweep my outcast state,
And trouble deaf heaven with my bootless cries,
And look upon myself and curse my fate,
Wishing me like to one more rich in hope,
Featured like him, like him with friends possess'd,
Desiring this man's art, and that man's scope,
With what I most enjoy contented least.
Yet in these thoughts myself almost despising,
Haply I think on thee, and then my state,
Like to the lark at break of day arising
From sullen earth, sings hymns at heaven's gate;
For thy sweet love remember'd such wealth brings
That then I scorn to change my state with kings.
And when Angelou recited them to us, these words sounded indeed like they had sprung forth from her soul.
Anonymous
10/27/2021 16:36
Subject: Is Shakespeare not taught in DCPS?
Anonymous wrote:Also, how can a kid ever appreciate the genuis that is, "10 Things I hate about you" if they've never read Shakespeare? Best teen movie ever, with "Drop Dead Gorgeous" as a close second.
Is The Lion King a re-telling of Hamlet? Discuss.