Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m going to take the other side as a number of PPs. If DC wants to go to a strong research university (that is, a university with highly ranked graduate study programs) it is really hard to beat the UC system.

In addition to Cal and UCLA, UCSD and UCI are very strong in life sciences, math, CS. I would rank almost all programs from there above the same programs from UIUC, UMich, and UVa. (CS at UIUC an exception to that).

Well since UVA is no where near Michigan’s strength in the life sciences, math, And CS, I have to discount your entire statement. Michigan is certainly a peer, if not better, than UCSD and UCI in those areas as well.

You are wrong, but you keep posting this so I assume you are a disgruntled parent or student who didn't get in. UVA is terrific for the sciences. https://college.as.virginia.edu/css

Terrific? Compared to Berkeley, Michigan, and UCLA. Let alone UCSD or UCI? Hardly

Anonymous wrote:I'm going to present an opposite point of view from a parent of an OOS UCLA student. I heard all of the things that have been stated here before my DC decided to commit to UCLA: it's overcrowded, DC won't graduate in four years, won't get the classes they want, not worth it, etc. etc. From recent grads I heard it was an amazing experience that opened so many doors for them and presented them with incredible research and internship opportunities - yes as undergrads. From my professor and entrepreneur relatives and friends I heard that it was an academic and research powerhouse, and that if DC got in, we should not turn down the opportunity to send him/her there.

Fast forward three years, and even with the pandemic, DC absolutely LOVES every minute they've spent there and is having an awesome undergrad experience. DC came in with a full IB Diploma, and got 30+ credits (don't remember now exactly how many). DC will graduate in four years with a major and two minors. DC says classes are hard, challenging, and classmates are wicked smart. I have met and spent time with several of DC's classmates and they are all very impressive, including the ones who were third year transfers. The snobbery here around the transfers from community college is insane. You have no idea what their story was and why they chose community college to begin with. Many super smart students had to go that route for various reasons. DC has incredible opportunities at UCLA and is taking advantage of many of them. We just spent the weekend there to attend Bruin Family Weekend and attended a few faculty lectures. There is some genius research going on there and yes, undergrads have access to some of those research opportunities. We left absolutely blown away by the university. DC is doing a minor in the business of the music industry and classes are taught by a who's who of big name music folks. It's really amazing.

As for tuition, well, we have stashed away a ton of money for DC's education and can easily afford it. But to the PP's claims that OOS tuition is the same as Ivy and other private school tuition, not true. Tuition this year is around $43K, which is LESS than our DC private high school is this year!! Ivys and other private universities are much higher - from the high 50s to the high 60s. I'm not counting room and board, because that has to be paid everywhere. We think it's well worth it. We wouldn't have hesitated to send DC to Berkeley or Michigan OOS as well. DC had all three to choose from and fell in love with the UCLA campus at first sight. Yes, LA is expensive, but you can't beat the lifestyle. DC is having a blast, has made a ton of great friends and is really enjoying the lifestyle in LA - beach, hiking, skiing, amazing food, arts, etc. We are also sports lovers, so attending Bruin football, basketball, hockey, as well as women's volleyball and gymnastics is icing on the cake.

All that said, UCLA is not for everyone. At times, DC has had a hard time getting face time with an advisor and has had to navigate things on his/her own. Communication from the school is not always the best and I learn most things from the official parent rep group. And yes, sometimes DC has had to get on waitlists for classes. But in the first week of the quarter, waitlists move and DC has always gotten into the classes they have needed. Also, lots of students attend in the summer in order to get ahead. Summer sessions are very common and OOS students pay in-state tuition for summer classes. Last summer, DC lived with a bunch of friends and every weekend they organized trips: camping in Joshua Tree National Park, hiking around Palm Springs, etc. DC had a blast. Also, it's not for students who need a lot of guidance and hand-holding. But for smart, self-motivated, ambitious students, it's a great education. UCLA and Berkeley are not on all the top whatever university lists because of the number of pell grants they give out! That's just a silly argument. They are both world-class universities that are recognized all over the world. And for those here on DCUM who declare that diversity is so important to them, you can't get more diverse than UCLA - in every sense of the word. We have absolutely no regrets writing those tuition checks.

Be fair. The cost of attendance for an OOS student (not including airfare from the east coast) is $64,000. Of course an east coast kid is going to be in the dorm the first year and use food services, etc. It's disingenuous to cite $43. and the airfare really adds up. I'm a californian and do the run frequently. Just going out to set up a dorm and return for a family is a fortune. Then there's graduation,e tc. https://www.ucla.edu/admission/tuition-and-cost

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m going to take the other side as a number of PPs. If DC wants to go to a strong research university (that is, a university with highly ranked graduate study programs) it is really hard to beat the UC system.

In addition to Cal and UCLA, UCSD and UCI are very strong in life sciences, math, CS. I would rank almost all programs from there above the same programs from UIUC, UMich, and UVa. (CS at UIUC an exception to that).

Well since UVA is no where near Michigan’s strength in the life sciences, math, And CS, I have to discount your entire statement. Michigan is certainly a peer, if not better, than UCSD and UCI in those areas as well.

You are wrong, but you keep posting this so I assume you are a disgruntled parent or student who didn't get in. UVA is terrific for the sciences. https://college.as.virginia.edu/css

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They are very expensive from OOS and overcrowded so it's extremely common to take 5 years to graduate so you have to factor that into the cost too. I'm from CA and don't understand why someone would want to go there from OOS. Grad school at Cal or UCLA, sure. But waste of money for undergrad IMO.

Approximately 33% of UC students are community college transfers. So a third of your classmates for 4 yrs - or 5 - will be CC transfers. I don’t see the appeal when you are paying OOS tuition that rivals the price of Ivy schools.

Yeah, god forbid you have to call someone who went to community college your peer.

33% CC transfers.
Translation: UC schools are overrated.

what does percent of community college transfers have to do with a school's rating?

Ignore. They are being an elitist snob.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They are very expensive from OOS and overcrowded so it's extremely common to take 5 years to graduate so you have to factor that into the cost too. I'm from CA and don't understand why someone would want to go there from OOS. Grad school at Cal or UCLA, sure. But waste of money for undergrad IMO.

Approximately 33% of UC students are community college transfers. So a third of your classmates for 4 yrs - or 5 - will be CC transfers. I don’t see the appeal when you are paying OOS tuition that rivals the price of Ivy schools.

Yeah, god forbid you have to call someone who went to community college your peer.

33% CC transfers.
Translation: UC schools are overrated.

what does percent of community college transfers have to do with a school's rating?

I'm going to present an opposite point of view from a parent of an OOS UCLA student. I heard all of the things that have been stated here before my DC decided to commit to UCLA: it's overcrowded, DC won't graduate in four years, won't get the classes they want, not worth it, etc. etc. From recent grads I heard it was an amazing experience that opened so many doors for them and presented them with incredible research and internship opportunities - yes as undergrads. From my professor and entrepreneur relatives and friends I heard that it was an academic and research powerhouse, and that if DC got in, we should not turn down the opportunity to send him/her there.

Fast forward three years, and even with the pandemic, DC absolutely LOVES every minute they've spent there and is having an awesome undergrad experience. DC came in with a full IB Diploma, and got 30+ credits (don't remember now exactly how many). DC will graduate in four years with a major and two minors. DC says classes are hard, challenging, and classmates are wicked smart. I have met and spent time with several of DC's classmates and they are all very impressive, including the ones who were third year transfers. The snobbery here around the transfers from community college is insane. You have no idea what their story was and why they chose community college to begin with. Many super smart students had to go that route for various reasons. DC has incredible opportunities at UCLA and is taking advantage of many of them. We just spent the weekend there to attend Bruin Family Weekend and attended a few faculty lectures. There is some genius research going on there and yes, undergrads have access to some of those research opportunities. We left absolutely blown away by the university. DC is doing a minor in the business of the music industry and classes are taught by a who's who of big name music folks. It's really amazing.

As for tuition, well, we have stashed away a ton of money for DC's education and can easily afford it. But to the PP's claims that OOS tuition is the same as Ivy and other private school tuition, not true. Tuition this year is around $43K, which is LESS than our DC private high school is this year!! Ivys and other private universities are much higher - from the high 50s to the high 60s. I'm not counting room and board, because that has to be paid everywhere. We think it's well worth it. We wouldn't have hesitated to send DC to Berkeley or Michigan OOS as well. DC had all three to choose from and fell in love with the UCLA campus at first sight. Yes, LA is expensive, but you can't beat the lifestyle. DC is having a blast, has made a ton of great friends and is really enjoying the lifestyle in LA - beach, hiking, skiing, amazing food, arts, etc. We are also sports lovers, so attending Bruin football, basketball, hockey, as well as women's volleyball and gymnastics is icing on the cake.

All that said, UCLA is not for everyone. At times, DC has had a hard time getting face time with an advisor and has had to navigate things on his/her own. Communication from the school is not always the best and I learn most things from the official parent rep group. And yes, sometimes DC has had to get on waitlists for classes. But in the first week of the quarter, waitlists move and DC has always gotten into the classes they have needed. Also, lots of students attend in the summer in order to get ahead. Summer sessions are very common and OOS students pay in-state tuition for summer classes. Last summer, DC lived with a bunch of friends and every weekend they organized trips: camping in Joshua Tree National Park, hiking around Palm Springs, etc. DC had a blast. Also, it's not for students who need a lot of guidance and hand-holding. But for smart, self-motivated, ambitious students, it's a great education. UCLA and Berkeley are not on all the top whatever university lists because of the number of pell grants they give out! That's just a silly argument. They are both world-class universities that are recognized all over the world. And for those here on DCUM who declare that diversity is so important to them, you can't get more diverse than UCLA - in every sense of the word. We have absolutely no regrets writing those tuition checks.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They are very expensive from OOS and overcrowded so it's extremely common to take 5 years to graduate so you have to factor that into the cost too. I'm from CA and don't understand why someone would want to go there from OOS. Grad school at Cal or UCLA, sure. But waste of money for undergrad IMO.

Also from CA and generally agree with this. I think UCSC and Cal Poly SLO (not UC, but a state school) offer unique experiences that could make OOS worth it for certain kids. Maybe also UCSD for a kid dead set on a biotech career. But a kid who can get into Berkeley OOS and wants to study econ or whatever surely also would be admitted to strong privates offering a much better undergraduate experience for around the same $$. And UCLA, UCSB, or the rest? C'mon.

That's what everyone says about their in state schools. I say the same about University of Maryland. Tons of kids come from out of state when they have perfectly good in state schools where they live. Because it is so hard to get into the top UC schools, the peer group will be very high caliber, and that is part of what kids want.

In response to parent complaints, the UC system is reducing the number of OOS students. https://calmatters.org/education/higher-education/2021/09/uc-out-of-state-tuition/. The Regents want it down to only 10%

Anonymous wrote:The come-lately UC schools are highly overrated. Several years ago, they got a ranking boost when USNWR started tracking social mobility. Translation: schools that accept a lot of poor students and graduate them to professional jobs are going to look good. That, however doesn’t say so much about the quality of education as it does about the ongoing prestige of a four-year college degree. For OOS students, UC schools are hard to get into because CA overwhelmingly reserves seats for in-state students. Again, a low OOS admit rate doesn’t necessarily mean a quality education.

No, it says more about the wealth of the population base in general. The UC schools get more low-income and very poor applicants because the population reflects that. That's why their Pell Grant numbers are high. Virginia's is not because the average income per capita is higher. So long as USN&WR is going to reward number of Pell grant students, etc., the UC schools will go up on the rankings but I wouldn't want my kid there. - Californian

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They are very expensive from OOS and overcrowded so it's extremely common to take 5 years to graduate so you have to factor that into the cost too. I'm from CA and don't understand why someone would want to go there from OOS. Grad school at Cal or UCLA, sure. But waste of money for undergrad IMO.

Approximately 33% of UC students are community college transfers. So a third of your classmates for 4 yrs - or 5 - will be CC transfers. I don’t see the appeal when you are paying OOS tuition that rivals the price of Ivy schools.

Where did you get the 33% figure?

Because this says 20%.

If you’re hoping to transfer from a community college to one of the University of California’s (UC’s) nine undergraduate campuses, there are a few things you need to know. While transfer students are quite common on UC campuses (about 20 percent of UC undergrads are transfers), you still need to meet strict admission requirements in order to get in. Find out more about what steps you need to take in order to make the leap from community college to the UC system.

https://www.campusexplorer.com/college-advice-tips/B8FB8AEF/Community-College-Students-How-to-Transfer-to-the-UC-System/

Which is not that much different than UVA.

At University of Virginia, 15.0% of the entire student body are transfer students, so you won’t be alone.

https://www.campusreel.org/how-to-transfer-colleges/university-of-virginia-main-campus-transfer-requirements

And far less than the University of Maryland.


At University of Maryland-College Park (UMD), 31.0% of the entire student body are transfer students, so you won't be alone.

https://www.campusreel.org/how-to-transfer-colleges/university-of-maryland-college-park-transfer-requirements#:~:text=At%20University%20of%20Maryland%2DCollege%20Park%20(UMD)%2C%2031.0,you%20won't%20be%20alone.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They are very expensive from OOS and overcrowded so it's extremely common to take 5 years to graduate so you have to factor that into the cost too. I'm from CA and don't understand why someone would want to go there from OOS. Grad school at Cal or UCLA, sure. But waste of money for undergrad IMO.

Approximately 33% of UC students are community college transfers. So a third of your classmates for 4 yrs - or 5 - will be CC transfers. I don’t see the appeal when you are paying OOS tuition that rivals the price of Ivy schools.

Where did you get the 33% figure?

Because this says 20%.

If you’re hoping to transfer from a community college to one of the University of California’s (UC’s) nine undergraduate campuses, there are a few things you need to know. While transfer students are quite common on UC campuses (about 20 percent of UC undergrads are transfers), you still need to meet strict admission requirements in order to get in. Find out more about what steps you need to take in order to make the leap from community college to the UC system.

https://www.campusexplorer.com/college-advice-tips/B8FB8AEF/Community-College-Students-How-to-Transfer-to-the-UC-System/

Which is not that much different than UVA.

At University of Virginia, 15.0% of the entire student body are transfer students, so you won’t be alone.

https://www.campusreel.org/how-to-transfer-colleges/university-of-virginia-main-campus-transfer-requirements

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They are very expensive from OOS and overcrowded so it's extremely common to take 5 years to graduate so you have to factor that into the cost too. I'm from CA and don't understand why someone would want to go there from OOS. Grad school at Cal or UCLA, sure. But waste of money for undergrad IMO.

Approximately 33% of UC students are community college transfers. So a third of your classmates for 4 yrs - or 5 - will be CC transfers. I don’t see the appeal when you are paying OOS tuition that rivals the price of Ivy schools.

Where did you get the 33% figure?

Because this says 20%.

If you’re hoping to transfer from a community college to one of the University of California’s (UC’s) nine undergraduate campuses, there are a few things you need to know. While transfer students are quite common on UC campuses (about 20 percent of UC undergrads are transfers), you still need to meet strict admission requirements in order to get in. Find out more about what steps you need to take in order to make the leap from community college to the UC system.

https://www.campusexplorer.com/college-advice-tips/B8FB8AEF/Community-College-Students-How-to-Transfer-to-the-UC-System/

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They are very expensive from OOS and overcrowded so it's extremely common to take 5 years to graduate so you have to factor that into the cost too. I'm from CA and don't understand why someone would want to go there from OOS. Grad school at Cal or UCLA, sure. But waste of money for undergrad IMO.

Approximately 33% of UC students are community college transfers. So a third of your classmates for 4 yrs - or 5 - will be CC transfers. I don’t see the appeal when you are paying OOS tuition that rivals the price of Ivy schools.

Where did you get the 33% figure?

Anonymous wrote:I’m going to take the other side as a number of PPs. If DC wants to go to a strong research university (that is, a university with highly ranked graduate study programs) it is really hard to beat the UC system.

In addition to Cal and UCLA, UCSD and UCI are very strong in life sciences, math, CS. I would rank almost all programs from there above the same programs from UIUC, UMich, and UVa. (CS at UIUC an exception to that).

Well since UVA is no where near Michigan’s strength in the life sciences, math, And CS, I have to discount your entire statement. Michigan is certainly a peer, if not better, than UCSD and UCI in those areas as well.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They are very expensive from OOS and overcrowded so it's extremely common to take 5 years to graduate so you have to factor that into the cost too. I'm from CA and don't understand why someone would want to go there from OOS. Grad school at Cal or UCLA, sure. But waste of money for undergrad IMO.

Approximately 33% of UC students are community college transfers. So a third of your classmates for 4 yrs - or 5 - will be CC transfers. I don’t see the appeal when you are paying OOS tuition that rivals the price of Ivy schools.

Yeah, god forbid you have to call someone who went to community college your peer.

33% CC transfers.
Translation: UC schools are overrated.

I agree they are overrated for OOS students but it has nothing to do with CC transfers. The California system is designed to encourage CC even for top students. My nephew was valedictorian of his class (at a school that has only one val.) but didn't get into his preferred UCs -- Berkeley or Davis -- so is going to CC to transfer. That is not an unusual choice in CA. Another friend's DD is doing the same to transfer to UCLA. She has much older siblings who also went to UCLA who were weaker students than this one but applications have gotten so competitive that she didn't get in.