Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think the admissions staff below Ivy tier honestly don’t want your scores if they’ll bring down the school average for rankings. Ivys+ I think will hold it against you. Just my guess.

Emorys Test optional acceptance rate was 8% while the other was 17%. Not sure if Emory is ivy+, but I wanted to clarify info.

Correlation isn’t necessarily causation. The strongest students may be the ones who traveled to another state to take the SAT and aced it.

That is the issue, isn’t it? I don’t know that anyone (outside of the schools themselves) will have enough data to judge whether test optional helped or harmed otherwise similarly situated students.

After reading all of this, and other threads, my impression is that, if your kid is a star and has some very attractive qualities (whether a “hook” or some personal accomplishment) that makes them desirable to a given school, but has a test score that would lower the average test scores that they report to the ratings entities, you are better off applying test optional. On the other hand, if the student is your typical smart kid, but doesn’t have some other distinguishing qualities, a high test score could push them the top, and not having a score is a negative. I don’t have any data to support this, but it just seems logical.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think the admissions staff below Ivy tier honestly don’t want your scores if they’ll bring down the school average for rankings. Ivys+ I think will hold it against you. Just my guess.

Emorys Test optional acceptance rate was 8% while the other was 17%. Not sure if Emory is ivy+, but I wanted to clarify info.

Correlation isn’t necessarily causation. The strongest students may be the ones who traveled to another state to take the SAT and aced it.

Anonymous wrote:I think the admissions staff below Ivy tier honestly don’t want your scores if they’ll bring down the school average for rankings. Ivys+ I think will hold it against you. Just my guess.

Emorys Test optional acceptance rate was 8% while the other was 17%. Not sure if Emory is ivy+, but I wanted to clarify info.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think the admissions staff below Ivy tier honestly don’t want your scores if they’ll bring down the school average for rankings. Ivys+ I think will hold it against you. Just my guess.

I think you're right. Here's one little anecdote from our experience last year. DS, who went to a local DC very rigorous private, had an SAT score that was at the 50th percentile for a SLAC that was a reach--not far reach--but reach. He had a great interview and great recommendations and average GPA for the school. The day before they were mailing out decisions, the school called my son's college counselor and said, "it would be in his best interest to change his application to test optional." He hopped onto his portal and clicked the box to change from submiting his score to not, and was accepted the next day. Even with a score in the mid-range for that school, they wanted only higher scores in their accepted students. With then all going test-optional, the average ranges for standardized test scores was much higher last year. I would not submit unless the score is over the 50th percentile.

Actually, this tells me the opposite. If your DC had not submitted their scores, the school probably would have assumed that they were lower than the 50% range. As it is, they know that your kid is within range for their school, which improved his chance for admission, but they’re just manipulating their numbers by not having him submit.

Another anecdote that is the flip side of this coin — I know someone who applied test optional, and the school called and asked for their scores orally. I’m sure their application still says “test optional.” In other words, the schools are figuring out how to use test scores for information on the applicants while only having the very highest “count” for rankings purposes.

I don’t know why some of you are shocked. College admissions officers are flawed human beings and act like flawed human beings everywhere. Admissions officers are judged on the statistics of the students they attract, and they’re going to take advantage of flaws in the system to game it, any way they can. Why do you think these competitive schools spam all students with emails begging for applications? It’s all a numbers game.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I still don't know what to do about this. Our DC's ACT composite is just two points less than the school's 25% (he has a 28 - school's 25% is a 30). It seems if he doesn't submit, they'll assume his score is MUCH lower than it is, when in reality, it's not far from their 25%. I really wish we could just choose which sections to submit and not submit the others.

Don't take this the wrong way, but you need to understand that those 25th% numbers are generally people with hooks. Unless your kid also has a hook, that number won't apply to them. Also, are you sure you want your kid "competing" academically with kids who generally did a lot better on these tests?

If the kid is getting good grades in HS, I wouldn’t be worried about “competing.” It’s just one measure — there are lots of smart students that just don’t do well on standardized tests.

However, I do agree that, unless your kid is 6’6” and has an amazing jump shot, you should assume that the under 25% admitted rate doesn’t apply to them.

Anonymous wrote:I think the admissions staff below Ivy tier honestly don’t want your scores if they’ll bring down the school average for rankings. Ivys+ I think will hold it against you. Just my guess.

Everybody on here is guessing and repeating " what they heard."

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Parent of senior here, 1st kid.

where is this "conventional wisdom" found ???? CONVENTIONAL is mentioned by both OP and the next poster.

Please be specific. Like, this website or that book or none of the above -- our $$$$ private counselor told us this. Or the counselor in our giant public school system who's been doing this 20 years.

Our kid attends a private DC school and we have very responsive, engaged counselors for that tuition. BUT ... but but but. They definitely don't offer these kind of concrete, universally understood nuggets like "submit yes if > 75%. No submit if <50% and gonzo GPA."

There is not real conventional wisdom because this is only the second class of kids to face this dilemma.

And the first class where kids have plenty of opportunities to take the standardized tests. 2021s were limited by covid.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you are from a UMC background and aren't submitting scores, that will not work in your favor.

How will admissions know if the student is from
an UMC background?

Zip code and high school

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I still don't know what to do about this. Our DC's ACT composite is just two points less than the school's 25% (he has a 28 - school's 25% is a 30). It seems if he doesn't submit, they'll assume his score is MUCH lower than it is, when in reality, it's not far from their 25%. I really wish we could just choose which sections to submit and not submit the others.

Two points on ACT is not that small. I would not submit 28 to a school where 25th percentile is 30. Consider what data source you are using for the percentile range, though. I would look at class of 2024 and earlier.

+1
It is 2 on a scale of 36, it is not the SAT

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you are from a UMC background and aren't submitting scores, that will not work in your favor.

But on another thread, someone said if you have a low score in one subsection, not to submit because the school won't want to have to average that score in with the rest. So you're damned if you do, damned if you don't.

True when you are trying to get in colleges that are above your leagues

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think the admissions staff below Ivy tier honestly don’t want your scores if they’ll bring down the school average for rankings. Ivys+ I think will hold it against you. Just my guess.

I think you're right. Here's one little anecdote from our experience last year. DS, who went to a local DC very rigorous private, had an SAT score that was at the 50th percentile for a SLAC that was a reach--not far reach--but reach. He had a great interview and great recommendations and average GPA for the school. The day before they were mailing out decisions, the school called my son's college counselor and said, "it would be in his best interest to change his application to test optional." He hopped onto his portal and clicked the box to change from submiting his score to not, and was accepted the next day. Even with a score in the mid-range for that school, they wanted only higher scores in their accepted students. With then all going test-optional, the average ranges for standardized test scores was much higher last year. I would not submit unless the score is over the 50th percentile.

This makes no sense to me. Are you saying they saw the score but wanted it removed so they wouldn't have to include it in their average? If that's what happened, wow, how unethical can you get? This is actually newsworthy.

+1, that is truly shocking to me.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think the admissions staff below Ivy tier honestly don’t want your scores if they’ll bring down the school average for rankings. Ivys+ I think will hold it against you. Just my guess.

I think you're right. Here's one little anecdote from our experience last year. DS, who went to a local DC very rigorous private, had an SAT score that was at the 50th percentile for a SLAC that was a reach--not far reach--but reach. He had a great interview and great recommendations and average GPA for the school. The day before they were mailing out decisions, the school called my son's college counselor and said, "it would be in his best interest to change his application to test optional." He hopped onto his portal and clicked the box to change from submiting his score to not, and was accepted the next day. Even with a score in the mid-range for that school, they wanted only higher scores in their accepted students. With then all going test-optional, the average ranges for standardized test scores was much higher last year. I would not submit unless the score is over the 50th percentile.

This makes no sense to me. Are you saying they saw the score but wanted it removed so they wouldn't have to include it in their average? If that's what happened, wow, how unethical can you get? This is actually newsworthy.

Anonymous wrote:OP here, our schools are not highly competitive for top students. I have an average student who wants to get into the safeties of top students. Still, their scores are at the low end but still within the middle 50%. No one seems to know what to tell us. In reality it probably doesn’t matter if she submits or not because I will second guess myself if she doesn’t get in either way.

It's very hard to advise you in a vacuum. You need to remember that grades and course selection are almost always viewed as by colleges as more important than test scores. So, if your student is within the 25/75 percent range, they're clearly in the zone and their test scores won't hurt them IF the grades are there. With test scores slightly below the school's average, having grades slightly above should do the trick. If the grades aren't there either, then you're in real trouble. A college isn't likely to accept a student with no test scores and average or below average grades.

Also, you don't say (or I didn't see) if you are full pay. If you are, it will make a difference on the margins for private "safety" schools because most of them are need aware. It won't make a difference for public colleges.

Finally, let me say this: we are a white and privileged family living in a highly ranked public school district in NOVA. We had two kids apply to UVA. Both had very good grades and tough courses. Both also had test scores at the lower end of the 25/75 range. Both got in unhooked. So don't buy the idea that the lower end of the 25/75 is the exclusive province of the "hooked." It isn't.

The bottom line to me is that the better the school record and the lower ranked that the college is, the less importance submitting test scores is. There's no hard and fast rule, however.

Anonymous wrote:I think the admissions staff below Ivy tier honestly don’t want your scores if they’ll bring down the school average for rankings. Ivys+ I think will hold it against you. Just my guess.

I think you're right. Here's one little anecdote from our experience last year. DS, who went to a local DC very rigorous private, had an SAT score that was at the 50th percentile for a SLAC that was a reach--not far reach--but reach. He had a great interview and great recommendations and average GPA for the school. The day before they were mailing out decisions, the school called my son's college counselor and said, "it would be in his best interest to change his application to test optional." He hopped onto his portal and clicked the box to change from submiting his score to not, and was accepted the next day. Even with a score in the mid-range for that school, they wanted only higher scores in their accepted students. With then all going test-optional, the average ranges for standardized test scores was much higher last year. I would not submit unless the score is over the 50th percentile.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So are the admissions officers who say things like "if you aren't happy with your scores, don't submit them!" lying? Not a sarcastic question, I'm honestly trying to reconcile everything I've heard about this.

As DC is just at the 25% for their ED school, we are considering not submitting and the above quote is word-for-word what we heard during an info session for that school. But I don't know what to do and I'd hate to give DC the wrong advice and have it hurt their chances.

It really sucks that colleges have added so much ridiculous gamesmanship to the process. It is doing a really bad number on the mental health of our kids.

ED? If so, to the school you really want to go to but might not get in because it has a <10% admit rate and one of your areas is weaker than typical? If the second or third choice when ED is nearly a shoe-in and but RD is a gamble? What if I still don't know in October which is my first choice - and I throwing it all away by not pulling a name from a hat?
EA? but what if ED would have been better? Or is ED really just for legacies and athletes, not one will tell you for sure?
RD? what if the class is full already and they only take the hard need cases? Will I get merit aid if I wait?
Will I spend the next 6 months of my senior year living with self doubt and regret while my ED classmates relax and party?
Should I submit scores or not? To some not others? Which ones? What if I choose wrong?

It is so wrong on so many levels.

+1