Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Even before Covid, I noticed an increase in serious mental health challenges among both undergrad and grad students in my classes and in the department as a whole. Based on conversations with colleagues, it seems to be occurring across the university. The university has some pretty good resources in place and the messaging from higher admin emphasizes supporting the students. But what I struggle with is maintaining standards. I have students who basically stop showing up to class, citing anxiety. They do not complete the work and do not do well on tests. In classes with papers instead of tests, they fail to turn the papers in. I have fairly generous makeup policies and let students drop their lowest test in the exam based courses. I try to use a variety of assessments so students' final grades do not depend on one or two very large assignments.

I reach out to the students who are not showing up and not turning in work and try to offer ways to help them get back on track. I also try to connect them to university mental health resources. But in many cases they either don't respond or want to try to make up work when it is way too late to turn things around. Even if I give them the opportunity to make up most of the work, it's just too much for them after getting so behind. Even giving a grade of Incomplete usually just delays the inevitable, as the challenges that were preventing the students from doing the work in the first place are often still in place a few months later. It just seems like a good proportion of these students would be better off withdrawing from courses rather than getting behind, feeling stressed about that, and still not ending up with a good grade in the end.

I personally think the biggest problem is that there is no good mechanism for students to recognize that college isn't working out at this time and to get their money back. The university doesn't allow a tuition refund unless the student drops quite early in the semester, before the student fully realizes they aren't keeping up. So the student feels like they have to stick with it because they have already paid for it, which I understand. It just feels like a problem with no real solution. I can't just pretend that my classes don't require any work for students experiencing mental health difficulties and give them a passing grade they haven't earned. I worry that the "it's ok not to be ok" messaging is leading some of them to believe it's ok to just stop communicating for weeks/months and that somehow it will all work out later. That is not reality in college nor is it the reality in the workplace.

Do you kids' universities have any effective solutions to this problem? I can't see my university changing their policy around tuition refunds but maybe some of us faculty need to start pushing for it somehow.

As another professor, I have noticed a slight increase in students who seem to be struggling.

However, one of my main complaints prior to the pandemic has always been about how coddled the students are who come into my 101 level course. By coddled I mean expecting to be able to make up exams they missed, turn in work late without any grade ramifications, and expecting extra credit at the end to boost their grades.

It's no wonder why nearly all students have 4.0 or higher GPAs exiting high school when all their teachers allowed grades to be dropped, work to be turned in late without starting out a grade lower, and the reliance on extra credit "busy work."

So many students say they have "anxiety" but when it is broken down and discussed, it boils down to them being overwhelmed and underprepared.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a child at UVA who has struggled with mental health issues.

To be perfectly blunt, some reasonable accommodations are appropriate. But there comes a time where if a student is that dramatically incapacitated, they need to withdraw until they can function again. And also, you cannot allow someone with mental illnesses to use it as a crutch.

There are limits to accommodations. At some point, there have to be natural consequences, and they may not always be pleasant.

I mean, in the work world there will be limits to tolerance for this behavior.

+1 you can’t lower your standards. If people aren’t up to it, for one reason or another, they need to make choices.

Perhaps relatedly, this is why I hate people trying to get into the “best“ ppossible school – sometimes people are better off being higher up the food chain at a school a step down.

PP here — I say this as someone who has worked in academic environments, and as someone who has two DSs, one who is at the tippy top school and can handle it, and one who is doing well but consciously chose a school a step down.

Yep! My older child is quite capable but went to a pressure cooker high school and intentionally stepped down for college. She went somewhere intellectual but not T20 and not a pressure cooker. She has almost all A’s now (in her soon year). She feels stimulated by the environmentbut not overwhelmed or feeling the need to compete. She is doing what she loves and learning to learn, not to get A’s. Beat choice ever!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't think I they should get their tuition back, because then you'll see more slacking off.

I think part of the problem is that many kids are loaded with tutors in high school. Then they get into a top school and they're on their own. I think parents shouldn't start the tutoring in the first place so that kids end up in colleges they can handle and they learn to count on themselves.

I think this is so on point. When we were in FCPS, it seemed like my kids with zero tutors (other than us advanced degreed parents) were an anomaly. It was almost like the K-12 teachers started to teach to the tutor. Meaning, it was assumed you would get your kids a tutor for each subject if they needed any help, and the classroom was merely a place to reinforce the concepts they should already know. That we never hired a tutor seemed to strike some teachers as odd, like who does that? Then we moved away and school became a lot more normal. Better.

I think there's a middle ground here. My DS worked with a tutor for French and DD is now for calculus. In both cases they got to a point where they were really struggling and the help from the teacher was insufficient. DS really did NOT want a tutor, seemed to think he meant he wasn't good enough. Then he tried it and learned that it really helped. Now, he's in college and knows that it's OK to ask for help. College students definitely use tutors. On all the tours they tout their academic success centers, writing centers, etc. There's lots of help but the student has to feel OK asking for it and lots of kids who were super-achievers in HS may not be willing to ask.

Anonymous wrote:Even before Covid, I noticed an increase in serious mental health challenges among both undergrad and grad students in my classes and in the department as a whole. Based on conversations with colleagues, it seems to be occurring across the university. The university has some pretty good resources in place and the messaging from higher admin emphasizes supporting the students. But what I struggle with is maintaining standards. I have students who basically stop showing up to class, citing anxiety. They do not complete the work and do not do well on tests. In classes with papers instead of tests, they fail to turn the papers in. I have fairly generous makeup policies and let students drop their lowest test in the exam based courses. I try to use a variety of assessments so students' final grades do not depend on one or two very large assignments.

I reach out to the students who are not showing up and not turning in work and try to offer ways to help them get back on track. I also try to connect them to university mental health resources. But in many cases they either don't respond or want to try to make up work when it is way too late to turn things around. Even if I give them the opportunity to make up most of the work, it's just too much for them after getting so behind. Even giving a grade of Incomplete usually just delays the inevitable, as the challenges that were preventing the students from doing the work in the first place are often still in place a few months later. It just seems like a good proportion of these students would be better off withdrawing from courses rather than getting behind, feeling stressed about that, and still not ending up with a good grade in the end.

I personally think the biggest problem is that there is no good mechanism for students to recognize that college isn't working out at this time and to get their money back. The university doesn't allow a tuition refund unless the student drops quite early in the semester, before the student fully realizes they aren't keeping up. So the student feels like they have to stick with it because they have already paid for it, which I understand. It just feels like a problem with no real solution. I can't just pretend that my classes don't require any work for students experiencing mental health difficulties and give them a passing grade they haven't earned. I worry that the "it's ok not to be ok" messaging is leading some of them to believe it's ok to just stop communicating for weeks/months and that somehow it will all work out later. That is not reality in college nor is it the reality in the workplace.

Do you kids' universities have any effective solutions to this problem? I can't see my university changing their policy around tuition refunds but maybe some of us faculty need to start pushing for it somehow.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Even before Covid, I noticed an increase in serious mental health challenges among both undergrad and grad students in my classes and in the department as a whole. Based on conversations with colleagues, it seems to be occurring across the university. The university has some pretty good resources in place and the messaging from higher admin emphasizes supporting the students. But what I struggle with is maintaining standards. I have students who basically stop showing up to class, citing anxiety. They do not complete the work and do not do well on tests. In classes with papers instead of tests, they fail to turn the papers in. I have fairly generous makeup policies and let students drop their lowest test in the exam based courses. I try to use a variety of assessments so students' final grades do not depend on one or two very large assignments.

I reach out to the students who are not showing up and not turning in work and try to offer ways to help them get back on track. I also try to connect them to university mental health resources. But in many cases they either don't respond or want to try to make up work when it is way too late to turn things around. Even if I give them the opportunity to make up most of the work, it's just too much for them after getting so behind. Even giving a grade of Incomplete usually just delays the inevitable, as the challenges that were preventing the students from doing the work in the first place are often still in place a few months later. It just seems like a good proportion of these students would be better off withdrawing from courses rather than getting behind, feeling stressed about that, and still not ending up with a good grade in the end.

I personally think the biggest problem is that there is no good mechanism for students to recognize that college isn't working out at this time and to get their money back. The university doesn't allow a tuition refund unless the student drops quite early in the semester, before the student fully realizes they aren't keeping up. So the student feels like they have to stick with it because they have already paid for it, which I understand. It just feels like a problem with no real solution. I can't just pretend that my classes don't require any work for students experiencing mental health difficulties and give them a passing grade they haven't earned. I worry that the "it's ok not to be ok" messaging is leading some of them to believe it's ok to just stop communicating for weeks/months and that somehow it will all work out later. That is not reality in college nor is it the reality in the workplace.

Do you kids' universities have any effective solutions to this problem? I can't see my university changing their policy around tuition refunds but maybe some of us faculty need to start pushing for it somehow.

High school teacher here. I've noticed the same trends among students, but their parents also are different.

These kids have been shielded from failure for years. There is no sense or urgency and not much personal responsibility because there is no failing in high school: if they don't turn something in or don't study sufficiently, the teachers give second chances or retakes. If the student doesn't like the grade he/she earns and parents complain, admin will ensure that the teacher raises the grade. And the parents see the teacher as the one responsible for the child's grades, not the child herself. Everyone is intelligent and everyone should go to college, and if there are any struggles, accommodations and exceptions must be put into place.

Even ten years ago it was starting to change, but prior to that, things were much different.

This is the environment where your students were cooked and formed. They are your customers and they assume you will provide the product (grades).

Well, this is a little tricky here. Because the point is to LEARN the material, is it not? It's not to do "gotcha -- you didn't learn the material in time or the first time, so you're stuck with the shit grade you got." As long as they ultimately learn the material, they have earned the higher grade, IMHO.

That said, there are limits to that, too. So I don't quite know where the line is.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Even before Covid, I noticed an increase in serious mental health challenges among both undergrad and grad students in my classes and in the department as a whole. Based on conversations with colleagues, it seems to be occurring across the university. The university has some pretty good resources in place and the messaging from higher admin emphasizes supporting the students. But what I struggle with is maintaining standards. I have students who basically stop showing up to class, citing anxiety. They do not complete the work and do not do well on tests. In classes with papers instead of tests, they fail to turn the papers in. I have fairly generous makeup policies and let students drop their lowest test in the exam based courses. I try to use a variety of assessments so students' final grades do not depend on one or two very large assignments.

I reach out to the students who are not showing up and not turning in work and try to offer ways to help them get back on track. I also try to connect them to university mental health resources. But in many cases they either don't respond or want to try to make up work when it is way too late to turn things around. Even if I give them the opportunity to make up most of the work, it's just too much for them after getting so behind. Even giving a grade of Incomplete usually just delays the inevitable, as the challenges that were preventing the students from doing the work in the first place are often still in place a few months later. It just seems like a good proportion of these students would be better off withdrawing from courses rather than getting behind, feeling stressed about that, and still not ending up with a good grade in the end.

I personally think the biggest problem is that there is no good mechanism for students to recognize that college isn't working out at this time and to get their money back. The university doesn't allow a tuition refund unless the student drops quite early in the semester, before the student fully realizes they aren't keeping up. So the student feels like they have to stick with it because they have already paid for it, which I understand. It just feels like a problem with no real solution. I can't just pretend that my classes don't require any work for students experiencing mental health difficulties and give them a passing grade they haven't earned. I worry that the "it's ok not to be ok" messaging is leading some of them to believe it's ok to just stop communicating for weeks/months and that somehow it will all work out later. That is not reality in college nor is it the reality in the workplace.

Do you kids' universities have any effective solutions to this problem? I can't see my university changing their policy around tuition refunds but maybe some of us faculty need to start pushing for it somehow.

High school teacher here. I've noticed the same trends among students, but their parents also are different.

These kids have been shielded from failure for years. There is no sense or urgency and not much personal responsibility because there is no failing in high school: if they don't turn something in or don't study sufficiently, the teachers give second chances or retakes. If the student doesn't like the grade he/she earns and parents complain, admin will ensure that the teacher raises the grade. And the parents see the teacher as the one responsible for the child's grades, not the child herself. Everyone is intelligent and everyone should go to college, and if there are any struggles, accommodations and exceptions must be put into place.

Even ten years ago it was starting to change, but prior to that, things were much different.

This is the environment where your students were cooked and formed. They are your customers and they assume you will provide the product (grades).

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Even before Covid, I noticed an increase in serious mental health challenges among both undergrad and grad students in my classes and in the department as a whole. Based on conversations with colleagues, it seems to be occurring across the university. The university has some pretty good resources in place and the messaging from higher admin emphasizes supporting the students. But what I struggle with is maintaining standards. I have students who basically stop showing up to class, citing anxiety. They do not complete the work and do not do well on tests. In classes with papers instead of tests, they fail to turn the papers in. I have fairly generous makeup policies and let students drop their lowest test in the exam based courses. I try to use a variety of assessments so students' final grades do not depend on one or two very large assignments.

I reach out to the students who are not showing up and not turning in work and try to offer ways to help them get back on track. I also try to connect them to university mental health resources. But in many cases they either don't respond or want to try to make up work when it is way too late to turn things around. Even if I give them the opportunity to make up most of the work, it's just too much for them after getting so behind. Even giving a grade of Incomplete usually just delays the inevitable, as the challenges that were preventing the students from doing the work in the first place are often still in place a few months later. It just seems like a good proportion of these students would be better off withdrawing from courses rather than getting behind, feeling stressed about that, and still not ending up with a good grade in the end.

I personally think the biggest problem is that there is no good mechanism for students to recognize that college isn't working out at this time and to get their money back. The university doesn't allow a tuition refund unless the student drops quite early in the semester, before the student fully realizes they aren't keeping up. So the student feels like they have to stick with it because they have already paid for it, which I understand. It just feels like a problem with no real solution. I can't just pretend that my classes don't require any work for students experiencing mental health difficulties and give them a passing grade they haven't earned. I worry that the "it's ok not to be ok" messaging is leading some of them to believe it's ok to just stop communicating for weeks/months and that somehow it will all work out later. That is not reality in college nor is it the reality in the workplace.

Do you kids' universities have any effective solutions to this problem? I can't see my university changing their policy around tuition refunds but maybe some of us faculty need to start pushing for it somehow.

High school teacher here. I've noticed the same trends among students, but their parents also are different.

These kids have been shielded from failure for years. There is no sense or urgency and not much personal responsibility because there is no failing in high school: if they don't turn something in or don't study sufficiently, the teachers give second chances or retakes. If the student doesn't like the grade he/she earns and parents complain, admin will ensure that the teacher raises the grade. And the parents see the teacher as the one responsible for the child's grades, not the child herself. Everyone is intelligent and everyone should go to college, and if there are any struggles, accommodations and exceptions must be put into place.

Even ten years ago it was starting to change, but prior to that, things were much different.

This is the environment where your students were cooked and formed. They are your customers and they assume you will provide the product (grades).

Anonymous wrote:This is a great post, and I hope people continue being kind.

I think so many kids are pushed and cultivated to be "perfect." They're cracking. COVID has made it a million times worse.

I have one child in college now, and of course I don't want it to go wrong. But -- if he needed to take a pause, or transfer -- I hope I would have the sense to let it happen.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't think I they should get their tuition back, because then you'll see more slacking off.

I think part of the problem is that many kids are loaded with tutors in high school. Then they get into a top school and they're on their own. I think parents shouldn't start the tutoring in the first place so that kids end up in colleges they can handle and they learn to count on themselves.

I think this is so on point. When we were in FCPS, it seemed like my kids with zero tutors (other than us advanced degreed parents) were an anomaly. It was almost like the K-12 teachers started to teach to the tutor. Meaning, it was assumed you would get your kids a tutor for each subject if they needed any help, and the classroom was merely a place to reinforce the concepts they should already know. That we never hired a tutor seemed to strike some teachers as odd, like who does that? Then we moved away and school became a lot more normal. Better.