Easy for Bill Maher to say. He is a priviledged white man. White men still rule the world-- college or not. Don't be so gullible OP.

Anonymous wrote:A high school diploma doesn't qualify you for any kind of career. Careers are all specialized and require education.
Even trades like plumbing are only available at community colleges
So tell me, what career is available to a person with just a high school?
And let us assume we are taking about the kind of work where you can support yourself and a family without requiring some kind of assistance

There used to be jobs here for people who could not make it in an academic setting, but most of those jobs are gone now.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Education isn't just a vocational undertaking. We want plumbers, sure. But we also want citizens. We want people who know how to live life with a sense of purpose and meaning.

Paying $30k/year to learn how to make widgets isn't really the best investment. But if you find a place that helps you land a higher paying job and teaches you what you need to know to be a more complete person, then it's a good investment.

This is a disgusting and demeaning point of view. Why would plumbers be less than "citizens" and why wouldn't someone who chose a trade like plumbing "know how to live life with a sense of purpose and meaning?"

I agree with the PP's statement that we want all citizens to be educated sufficiently so that they can be informed and active participants in our democracy. I don't agree that college is the only way to make that happen. A high school education should provide a sufficient foundation for most individuals. Of course, there is a question of whether a high school education in this country actually does that (probably not).

I also agree that education isn't necessarily vocational training; however, education also should not be viewed in a vacuum without consideration of finances. If you are full pay and graduate with a degree in an esoteric major without any idea of how you will earn a living, was your perceived ticket to "a sense of purpose and meaning" worth it?

By definition, a scam is a fraudulent or deceptive scheme. Whether college is scam depends on what you think you are getting out of it. If, as the first poster suggests, college is nothing more than an opportunity to learn for education's sake, then it isn't a scam. If, on the other hand, you believe that college is a great equalizer and a ticket to a well-paying job and career, it might well be a scam if you graduate with no marketable skills.

I think that Maher is on point when he suggests that sending everyone to college does not promote equality and financial security as has been promised.

Anonymous wrote:My college degree (from a public university, in-state, with a scholarship so I graduated totally debt free) was not a scam. It was great.

My law degree was 100% a scam. Still paying it off almost 20 years later. It boosted my salary earning but has not offset the financial investment plus opportunity costs. Law school meant I didn't really start earning money until my late 20s. And I didn't get a gig in Big Law, so those first few years, I really wasn't saving a lot. My income ramped up in my 30s, but I also had to scale back a bit when my kids were born for a few years (yes, had to -- I had medical issues related to my pregnancies, plus PPD). It wasn't this consistent trajectory. Also, while I used my degree to get my current job, I don't actually practice law anymore and could definitely do my job without the law degree. The skills I used most now are management/leadership skills (which I received zero training for in law school) and research and writing skills that I learned in college (I don't do legal writing). When I make my loan payment these days, it feels like just throwing money away.

Did you stay instate for law school? I did. Easily paid off loans in 2 years as a public interest lawyer.

My two cents:

Stay in state! Minimize loans/debt by living at home or with a million roommates off campus.

Earn a meaningful degree.

When thinking about careers, factor in health benefits, retirement, etc. My partner stuck with a local government job for the pension and Cadillac health benefits (think: $10 copay, no deductible, $35 total for surgery, etc. For our family with weird health issues, these benefits are priceless.).

Lastly, don’t live in a high cost area. We’re stuck in the dc metro area because we care for elderly parents who refuse to leave. Once the last kid is launched, we are likely downsizing and moving on.

Anonymous wrote:It’s a scam in some ways, but holy hell, has this pandemic highlighted what poor critical thinking skills many Americans have. No, one could argue those should be better taught in primary and secondary education, and I don’t disagree. But higher education absolutely serves an important role in society.

It would be great if we had more of the German model of strong apprenticeship programs and valued the trades more. But that requires (1) kids to get tracked early in life and (2) a social safety net that the US utterly lacks, and probably will never have. So…? I don’t know.

In Germany, the poorer kids are put on the vocational track. Wealthier people's children get to write the abitur. Some regions do not have enough schools for every kid to be able to attend the gymnasium. Teachers push kids to the vocational track, sometimes discriminately

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My masters immediately tripled my salary compared to my bachelors. Both from state flagships (different states). 7 years later and my salary has tripled from that first post-grad job and I work about half as hard.

Flagship school #1 was $12k/year and my scholarships brought it down to about $4k. I worked to pay for rent and living expenses. My dad was able to contribute about $12k over the 4 years, leaving me with $4k in loans. I paid that off in the 3 years after graduation, before starting grad school. I finished grad school with no debt because I had an assistantship and paid the fees in cash each semester. I am one of the few millennials I know that was relatively free of student debt, but only because I prioritized making that a reality for myself.

I hope my kids go to trade school and get started in their careers years before I did. I’ve had to play catch up in getting retirement savings started since I was in school until I was 26. My first company did not match for 401(k) and second company offers no retirement planning at all, so it’s been something I’m actively managing and working on.

What was your masters in and what industry did you end up working in?

BSBA Marketing
3 years working in casino marketing
MS Agricultural Economics
5 years in business development/commercial management of an agricultural investment firm (3 positions there)
2 years in international trade advisement helping foreign agribusinesses enter the US market

Best advice I have is to only get your masters if it’s going to be in something niche and prove your domain expertise upon graduating. I had 3 pieces of research in peer reviewed journals when I graduated. It made me an easy sell.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Education isn't just a vocational undertaking. We want plumbers, sure. But we also want citizens. We want people who know how to live life with a sense of purpose and meaning.

Paying $30k/year to learn how to make widgets isn't really the best investment. But if you find a place that helps you land a higher paying job and teaches you what you need to know to be a more complete person, then it's a good investment.

This is a disgusting and demeaning point of view. Why would plumbers be less than "citizens" and why wouldn't someone who chose a trade like plumbing "know how to live life with a sense of purpose and meaning?"

Yeah....that PP thought they were making a good point, but really only revealed some seriously problematic views.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It can be a scam if you aren't smart about it. If you need to take out parent loans to be able to afford it, you will probably end up regretting it. Student loan amounts haven't changed much over the years. I paid a few thousand dollars less in my loans 25 yrs ago.

It’s scam if our purpose is to have an educated society but you only get in if your parents are rich.

To reinforce the class system.
A child of privilege deserves more opportunities

Anonymous wrote:It can be a scam if you aren't smart about it. If you need to take out parent loans to be able to afford it, you will probably end up regretting it. Student loan amounts haven't changed much over the years. I paid a few thousand dollars less in my loans 25 yrs ago.

It’s scam if our purpose is to have an educated society but you only get in if your parents are rich.

Anonymous wrote:I don’t think it’s a scam, but I also majored in Accounting. A lot of my upper level courses were high level accounting classes where I learned a lot. I also really learned a lot from my economics and business classes. It also enabled me to become a CPA. I went from a LMC to MC upbringing to being very solidly UMC by my early thirties.

But you probably too 8+ meaningless classes.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Education isn't just a vocational undertaking. We want plumbers, sure. But we also want citizens. We want people who know how to live life with a sense of purpose and meaning.

Paying $30k/year to learn how to make widgets isn't really the best investment. But if you find a place that helps you land a higher paying job and teaches you what you need to know to be a more complete person, then it's a good investment.

This is a disgusting and demeaning point of view. Why would plumbers be less than "citizens" and why wouldn't someone who chose a trade like plumbing "know how to live life with a sense of purpose and meaning?"

Another problem with college. This person doesn’t even know a plumber.

Anonymous wrote:Education isn't just a vocational undertaking. We want plumbers, sure. But we also want citizens. We want people who know how to live life with a sense of purpose and meaning.

Paying $30k/year to learn how to make widgets isn't really the best investment. But if you find a place that helps you land a higher paying job and teaches you what you need to know to be a more complete person, then it's a good investment.

This is a disgusting and demeaning point of view. Why would plumbers be less than "citizens" and why wouldn't someone who chose a trade like plumbing "know how to live life with a sense of purpose and meaning?"

Anonymous wrote:I think Bill Maher’s opinion became irrelevant a really long time ago.

Bill Maher talks about a lot of uncomfortable topics that is increasingly upsetting the progressive left because his questions are honest and direct.

The college degree situation is a perfect example. It's a scam - to the extent that most people don't need college degrees for the work they do. Yet it's required and it's very difficult to get hired without a degree, especially at the onset of a career.

I won't say getting a college degree is a huge scam but it is greatly overrated for many circumstances and it's unfortunate we have a society that puts pressure on getting a college degree rather than work experience and training as many younger people would benefit better from going directly into the workforce through training programs and paying internships rather than wasting money and time on near pointless degrees.

Another element of college degrees becoming less valued is the increase in the range of soft topics offered for degrees.

I don’t think it’s a scam, but I also majored in Accounting. A lot of my upper level courses were high level accounting classes where I learned a lot. I also really learned a lot from my economics and business classes. It also enabled me to become a CPA. I went from a LMC to MC upbringing to being very solidly UMC by my early thirties.

It can be a scam if you aren't smart about it. If you need to take out parent loans to be able to afford it, you will probably end up regretting it. Student loan amounts haven't changed much over the years. I paid a few thousand dollars less in my loans 25 yrs ago.