Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A five year old on a scooter or bike should be on the sidewalk or right next to a parent. Unless the van was driving on the sidewalk, I don't know why you would assume it was the driver's fault.

The child was in a crosswalk. There's no way for a driver to kill her unless they ran the stop sign. Even if the child got out ahead of her parents, an attentive driver who stopped at the sign would STILL have been able to stop.

That’s so obviously untrue. Have you really never once see a kid <5 yrs blast into the road (crosswalk) without stopping?? You know, barreling at a good clip down the ADA sidewalk ramp? Scooters are the most common method of this but I also see balance bikes and just plain running full bore.

Yes. Drivers need to to yield. Always. If you cannot reasonably see a thing to *yield to* though, it makes it pretty hard. Even at 5 mph

A 42” tall child fast approaching from your right if you’re in a tall van at dusk-darkness is almost impossible to see.

Peace to her family

Anonymous wrote:The driver - the person driving the multi-thousand pound machine that killed another human - is at fault. But the driver behaves they way they do because our infrastructure and policy and legal choices mean that it's way easier to be an unsafe driver than a safe pedestrian.

And shame on all the apologists in this thread, who clearly identify more with the driver than with the child who was killed (or her family).

Anonymous wrote:As the operator of a machine that can kill very easily, I'm responsible for making sure that doesn't happen. If it does, I'm at fault. Period. Full stop. I'm sure the driver is distraught and I hope s/he and the family of the kid both find peace, but that doesn't change the moral responsibility.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A five year old on a scooter or bike should be on the sidewalk or right next to a parent. Unless the van was driving on the sidewalk, I don't know why you would assume it was the driver's fault.

Of course it is the driver's fault. Don't be an idiot.

It's a four-way crosswalk with no lights and 7PM at night. I'm guessing the driver didn't see the tiny 5-year-old and the parent wasn't close enough to wave the car off.

Not anyone's fault.

This thinking is so false. When moving through a four way crosswalk intersection you need to be INCREDIBLY careful. The onus is on YOU to check that the crosswalks are clear. Yes, this was an accident. But the fault lies with the driver if the victim was in the crosswalk. If the victim was jay-walking, it is the pedestrian's fault. This is the entire reason we HAVE crosswalks. To protect pedestrians.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does anyone have information about what actually happened?

What a horrible tragedy.

"The preliminary investigation revealed that at approximately 6:55pm, the operator of a Royal Cab Transit van was travelling eastbound on Irving Street, Northeast and was proceeding through a stop sign after coming to a complete stop. As the operator pulled off from the stop sign, a juvenile female, who was riding her bicycle was unable to stop her bicycle and entered the intersection into the path of the moving vehicle. The operator struck the victim then immediately came to a stop and remained on the scene."

I am heartbroken for the family of the little girl. I am heartbroken for the driver. Although there is plenty of reckless driving and wanton disrespect for pedestrians and cyclists in DC these days, there is no reason to place blame in a scenario like this. Unfortunately despite best intentions and precautions, sometimes accidents happen.

I will hug my kids a little tighter today. I will talk to them about respecting stop signs, cross walks, traffic signals, and understanding that they need to be close by an adult who is much more visible to a car. And I will also as a driver try to be more aware and less distracted and keep an extra eye out for pedestrians and cyclists.

Anonymous wrote:The driver - the person driving the multi-thousand pound machine that killed another human - is at fault. But the driver behaves they way they do because our infrastructure and policy and legal choices mean that it's way easier to be an unsafe driver than a safe pedestrian.

And shame on all the apologists in this thread, who clearly identify more with the driver than with the child who was killed (or her family).

Anonymous wrote:Does anyone have information about what actually happened?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A five year old on a scooter or bike should be on the sidewalk or right next to a parent. Unless the van was driving on the sidewalk, I don't know why you would assume it was the driver's fault.

Of course it is the driver's fault. Don't be an idiot.

It's a four-way crosswalk with no lights and 7PM at night. I'm guessing the driver didn't see the tiny 5-year-old and the parent wasn't close enough to wave the car off.

Not anyone's fault.

This thinking is so false. When moving through a four way crosswalk intersection you need to be INCREDIBLY careful. The onus is on YOU to check that the crosswalks are clear. Yes, this was an accident. But the fault lies with the driver if the victim was in the crosswalk. If the victim was jay-walking, it is the pedestrian's fault. This is the entire reason we HAVE crosswalks. To protect pedestrians.

That is not true.

A walker, even when using a crosswalk, must stop before entering the crosswalk to ensure cars can see them. You can't just enter a crosswalk without caution or stopping 1st.

If you are jogging and immediately go into a crosswalk without stopping 1st, you are in the wrong.
If you are walking and turn to enter a crosswalk without stopping 1st, you are in the wrong.

Drivers can not read your mind. Drivers can't stop when somebody darts into a crosswalk.

It is true. Drivers can not hit people in crosswalks. It is the drivers duty to ensure the crosswalk is clear before proceeding. While I agree, it's good practice for a pedestrain to look both ways, the law is on the pedestrain's side.



(a) The driver of a vehicle shall stop and remain stopped to allow a pedestrian to cross the roadway within any marked crosswalk, or unmarked crosswalk at an intersection, when the pedestrian is upon the lane, or within one lane approaching the lane, on which the vehicle is traveling or onto which it is turning.

(a-1) Whenever a vehicle is stopped at a marked crosswalk at an unsignalized intersection, a vehicle approaching the crosswalk in an adjacent lane or from behind the stopped vehicle shall stop and give the right-of-way to ensure the safety of pedestrians and bicyclists before passing the stopped vehicle.

https://code.dccouncil.us/dc/council/code/sections/50-2201.28.html

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A five year old on a scooter or bike should be on the sidewalk or right next to a parent. Unless the van was driving on the sidewalk, I don't know why you would assume it was the driver's fault.

Of course it is the driver's fault. Don't be an idiot.

It's a four-way crosswalk with no lights and 7PM at night. I'm guessing the driver didn't see the tiny 5-year-old and the parent wasn't close enough to wave the car off.

Not anyone's fault.

This thinking is so false. When moving through a four way crosswalk intersection you need to be INCREDIBLY careful. The onus is on YOU to check that the crosswalks are clear. Yes, this was an accident. But the fault lies with the driver if the victim was in the crosswalk. If the victim was jay-walking, it is the pedestrian's fault. This is the entire reason we HAVE crosswalks. To protect pedestrians.

That is not true.

A walker, even when using a crosswalk, must stop before entering the crosswalk to ensure cars can see them. You can't just enter a crosswalk without caution or stopping 1st.

If you are jogging and immediately go into a crosswalk without stopping 1st, you are in the wrong.
If you are walking and turn to enter a crosswalk without stopping 1st, you are in the wrong.

Drivers can not read your mind. Drivers can't stop when somebody darts into a crosswalk.

I have never heard of such a rule (NP). The rule I learned is that if a pedestrian is in a cross-walk (even one foot), a car is not permitted to “enter” the crosswalk (even in a location that would not hit the pedestrian). A rule that is broken all the time - and from the ridiculous apologists for the driver on this thread, a dangerous practice that plenty of PPs want to perpetuate… Seriously the 5 yr old in a crosswalk is to blame?? I bet dollar to donuts the driver was just distracted, rushed and not paying attention…

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A five year old on a scooter or bike should be on the sidewalk or right next to a parent. Unless the van was driving on the sidewalk, I don't know why you would assume it was the driver's fault.

Of course it is the driver's fault. Don't be an idiot.

It's a four-way crosswalk with no lights and 7PM at night. I'm guessing the driver didn't see the tiny 5-year-old and the parent wasn't close enough to wave the car off.

Not anyone's fault.

This thinking is so false. When moving through a four way crosswalk intersection you need to be INCREDIBLY careful. The onus is on YOU to check that the crosswalks are clear. Yes, this was an accident. But the fault lies with the driver if the victim was in the crosswalk. If the victim was jay-walking, it is the pedestrian's fault. This is the entire reason we HAVE crosswalks. To protect pedestrians.

That is not true.

A walker, even when using a crosswalk, must stop before entering the crosswalk to ensure cars can see them. You can't just enter a crosswalk without caution or stopping 1st.

If you are jogging and immediately go into a crosswalk without stopping 1st, you are in the wrong.
If you are walking and turn to enter a crosswalk without stopping 1st, you are in the wrong.

Drivers can not read your mind. Drivers can't stop when somebody darts into a crosswalk.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A five year old on a scooter or bike should be on the sidewalk or right next to a parent. Unless the van was driving on the sidewalk, I don't know why you would assume it was the driver's fault.

Of course it is the driver's fault. Don't be an idiot.

It's a four-way crosswalk with no lights and 7PM at night. I'm guessing the driver didn't see the tiny 5-year-old and the parent wasn't close enough to wave the car off.

Not anyone's fault.

This thinking is so false. When moving through a four way crosswalk intersection you need to be INCREDIBLY careful. The onus is on YOU to check that the crosswalks are clear. Yes, this was an accident. But the fault lies with the driver if the victim was in the crosswalk. If the victim was jay-walking, it is the pedestrian's fault. This is the entire reason we HAVE crosswalks. To protect pedestrians.

That is not true.

A walker, even when using a crosswalk, must stop before entering the crosswalk to ensure cars can see them. You can't just enter a crosswalk without caution or stopping 1st.

If you are jogging and immediately go into a crosswalk without stopping 1st, you are in the wrong.
If you are walking and turn to enter a crosswalk without stopping 1st, you are in the wrong.

Drivers can not read your mind. Drivers can't stop when somebody darts into a crosswalk.

I have never heard of such a rule (NP). The rule I learned is that if a pedestrian is in a cross-walk (even one foot), a car is not permitted to “enter” the crosswalk (even in a location that would not hit the pedestrian). A rule that is broken all the time - and from the ridiculous apologists for the driver on this thread, a dangerous practice that plenty of PPs want to perpetuate… Seriously the 5 yr old in a crosswalk is to blame?? I bet dollar to donuts the driver was just distracted, rushed and not paying attention…

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A five year old on a scooter or bike should be on the sidewalk or right next to a parent. Unless the van was driving on the sidewalk, I don't know why you would assume it was the driver's fault.

Of course it is the driver's fault. Don't be an idiot.

It's a four-way crosswalk with no lights and 7PM at night. I'm guessing the driver didn't see the tiny 5-year-old and the parent wasn't close enough to wave the car off.

Not anyone's fault.

This thinking is so false. When moving through a four way crosswalk intersection you need to be INCREDIBLY careful. The onus is on YOU to check that the crosswalks are clear. Yes, this was an accident. But the fault lies with the driver if the victim was in the crosswalk. If the victim was jay-walking, it is the pedestrian's fault. This is the entire reason we HAVE crosswalks. To protect pedestrians.

That is not true.

A walker, even when using a crosswalk, must stop before entering the crosswalk to ensure cars can see them. You can't just enter a crosswalk without caution or stopping 1st.

If you are jogging and immediately go into a crosswalk without stopping 1st, you are in the wrong.
If you are walking and turn to enter a crosswalk without stopping 1st, you are in the wrong.

Drivers can not read your mind. Drivers can't stop when somebody darts into a crosswalk.