Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:From Time:

“ Asked whether Americans should be worried about retaliatory attacks at home, Trump acknowledges the possibility. “I guess,” he says. “

I mean…. Wtf?!?!

There will be an incident that will make 9/11 look like a garden tea party.

Anonymous wrote:From Time:

“ Asked whether Americans should be worried about retaliatory attacks at home, Trump acknowledges the possibility. “I guess,” he says. “

I mean…. Wtf?!?!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Speaking of a fundamentalist, theocratic government in Iran, this just went down in the White House>

What kind of prayer is this? This looks like trump worshipping

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Speaking of a fundamentalist, theocratic government in Iran, this just went down in the White House>

Similarities between Trump and the (now-deceased) Ayatollah:

*both are super old yet cling to power
*both use religion to solidify their control
*both use a populist, nationalistic rhetoric to maintain a loyal base of support and delegitimize their opponents
*both have a strongman, top-down governing style
*both like to issue threats toward their countrymen and foreign nations

Did I miss anything?

Anonymous wrote:Speaking of a fundamentalist, theocratic government in Iran, this just went down in the White House>

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Speaking of a fundamentalist, theocratic government in Iran, this just went down in the White House>

Similarities between Trump and the (now-deceased) Ayatollah:

*both are super old yet cling to power
*both use religion to solidify their control
*both use a populist, nationalistic rhetoric to maintain a loyal base of support and delegitimize their opponents
*both have a strongman, top-down governing style
*both like to issue threats toward their countrymen and foreign nations

Did I miss anything?

Anonymous wrote:Speaking of a fundamentalist, theocratic government in Iran, this just went down in the White House>

Anonymous wrote:Speaking of a fundamentalist, theocratic government in Iran, this just went down in the White House>

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Anonymous wrote:You people are absolutely f'ing deranged. I am Iranian. My parents are Iranian. My entire very large extended family is Iranian. Every. Single. One. of the Iranian people I know are absolutely THRILLED with this turn of events. They are literally taking to the streets and celebrating, including here in DC.

I am a lifelong progressive Democrat. Typically, progressives center the narratives of people directly affected and allow them to define their own oppression. But now that they see an opening to criticize Israel (75% of this thread is foaming-at-the mouth, over-the-top, ISIS-level anti-Israel conspiracy propaganda), suddenly what actual Iranians say and feel doesn't matter to them at all. I don't care that Israel was involved here. I simply do not care. If they're the ones that create a catalyst for change in my country that ends up freeing 93 million people from the hellscape they've been living in, great. You people are so BLINDED by your maniacal hatred of Israel and to a lesser extent Trump (who I'm no fan of generally) that you can't perceive the absolute absurd hypocrisy of your position.

It's fine to object to this on the basis that it's not America's affair and they should stay out of it, because tax dollars or whatever BS (so far, only six American service members have (tragically) died, so I really don't think it's concern for our troops). Immoral position to take in the face of this regime, but ok. That's not what most of this thread is doing, though. People are instead moralizing at actual Iranians and pretending to care about the girls school that was bombed (unconfirmed that this was even Israel/the US and not Iran itself) or the future of Iran. Where were you when this regime murder FORTY THOUSAND OF ITS OWN PEOPLE?? When it tortured dissidents in secret prisons, threw acid on women for not covering their hair, literally went into hospitals where protesters were being treated and shot them point blank in the head? You don't give one flying f about Iranian people. Please don't pretend otherwise.

As far as I can tell, so far, all America has done is kill (extremely justifiably) a bunch of monstrous butchers and weakened their grip on power. This may or may not lead to regime change, but I can tell you for damn certain the regime is not going to be able to carry on the same way after this. Absolute WORST case scenario, the regime persists but its nuclear ambitions are done for and it becomes more friendly to US interests.

You're allowed to define your experiences. That doesn't mean you get to sign my kids up to die in your war. Six people is too many. If you'd like to die fighting the Iranian regime, no one is going to stop you.

This is simply TDS and delusions about Israel.

Why don’t people understand there are a lot of Dems who are ACTUALLY peaceniks? Who protested the Iraq war. Who protested Gaza because it was clear it went way beyond strategy. Women and children suffer in war. Soldiers die for interests that aren’t always clear. There is nothing good about it.

The irony being that Trump was supposed to be a master negotiator who would keep us out of war. He is a destabilizing force.

No one likes war. I also don’t like the wanton terror Islam brings to every nation.

so this is a war on Islam?

Islam has declared war on everyone that isn’t Islamic. We are just showing them that ain’t gonna play.

For those young’uns out there, Iran was pretty Western in the 1970s

Funny how we didn’t have any enemies in the Middle East till 1948.

Maybe they’re declaring war on everyone that’s attacking them.

You forget about WWI? Ottomans fought with the Central Powers.

Not to mention the mess during WWII, Suez crisis, etc.

Hasn’t exactly been a paradigm of peace and tranquility.

The Suez “crisis” was Egypt deciding that it owns its own freaking canal. It’s a “crisis” when western powers can no longer steal from native people I guess. 🤷‍♀️

Your history is a bit rough. And that’s being polite.

Egyptian government had previously sold its shares to Brits. Not to mention that Egypt unilaterally abrogated the treaty re the base at Suez.

In any case, the PP’s claim that ME was a Garden of Eden pre ‘48 is, of course, wholly incorrect.

DP so your premise is post 1948 the ME is a garden of Eden because Israel magically appeared? Right. You need to stop doing your own research. For you to say someone else history is rough is the height of arrogance.

In July 1956, Egypt nationalized the Suez Canal Company in retaliation for the U.S. and Britain refusing to fund the Aswan High Dam. Under international law that was legal. Egypt paid financial compensation to the former shareholders of the Universal Suez Canal Company following its nationalization in 1956. A formal settlement was not reached until July 1958 following the Suez Crisis. Egypt fulfilled its final payment obligations by early 1963.

On October 29, 1956, Israel invaded the Sinai Peninsula. Britain and France under the secret Protocol of Sèvres with Israel launched their own military intervention to seize the Canal Zone. Israel, France and Britain did not pay reparations to Egypt.

The U.S. opposed the invasion fearing it would drive Arab nations towards the Soviet Union. The Soviet Union threatened nuclear retaliation against the Israel, France and Britain.

Nice googling and creative editing. Zero percent chance you had any knowledge of Sueze before posting this.

And my premise is simple: the claim that the ME was an idyllic bastion of peace and coexistence prior to 1948 is an absurd fantasy that bears no relation whatsoever to reality.

Moreover the attendant myth that the ME would be an Edenic paradise but for the twin evils of Israel and the US is equally absurd.

There are myriad causes of ME conflict, ranging from tribalism, sectarian conflict, post-colonial malaise, and yes outside meddling by the US and many others.

The idea that the current situation is solely America’s (or Israel’s) responsibility is extraordinarily simplistic and demonstrably wrong.

You’re being transparent. The things you are claiming about the Suez happened in 1956 after 1948 so if anything you’re proving PP’s point.

Correct me if I’m wrong but the Middle East was not involved in WW1 and WW2. In fact, Iran took hundreds of thousands of Jewish refugees from Poland when the US and Britain refused. The Middle East was not responsible for slaughtering six million Jews. So why are they being slaughtered? Netanyahu waited 40 years to attack Iran. Is there any reason Israel couldn’t declare war on Germany in 1948 or even 1970 -just two decades after the worst holocaust in human history?

You’re wrong. Much of the ME sided with Central Powers in WWI. Palestinian leadership sided with Nazis in WW2. Roots of Suez issue arose in the 19th century.

You apparently don’t have the slightest knowledge of the region’s history or sources of conflict.

You don’t have the slightest common sense. The Middle East was not the hotbed for WW1 or WW2. European refugees fled to cities like Beirut, Alexandria, Tehran, Jerusalem. Remember?

Who they allied with is of little relevance. There were Zionist Jews who also allied with Hitler/germany because it served a political agenda to increase immigration to Palestine. You forget to mention Palestine was a British protectorate at the time so there were soldiers (Jewish and Palestinian) summoned to fight for the Allies/Brits together.

You also didn’t answer why Israel never avenged Germany but waited 40 years for the US to kill a 86 year old man and a school of little girls.

Gee, I wonder what your agenda might be???

So funny. Arguing that the Ottoman Empire’s alliance in WWI didn’t profoundly impact the region’s subsequent history is just silly.

DP

Speaking of agendas, yours is extremely transparent. The Arabs faught against the Ottomans.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You people are absolutely f'ing deranged. I am Iranian. My parents are Iranian. My entire very large extended family is Iranian. Every. Single. One. of the Iranian people I know are absolutely THRILLED with this turn of events. They are literally taking to the streets and celebrating, including here in DC.

I am a lifelong progressive Democrat. Typically, progressives center the narratives of people directly affected and allow them to define their own oppression. But now that they see an opening to criticize Israel (75% of this thread is foaming-at-the mouth, over-the-top, ISIS-level anti-Israel conspiracy propaganda), suddenly what actual Iranians say and feel doesn't matter to them at all. I don't care that Israel was involved here. I simply do not care. If they're the ones that create a catalyst for change in my country that ends up freeing 93 million people from the hellscape they've been living in, great. You people are so BLINDED by your maniacal hatred of Israel and to a lesser extent Trump (who I'm no fan of generally) that you can't perceive the absolute absurd hypocrisy of your position.

It's fine to object to this on the basis that it's not America's affair and they should stay out of it, because tax dollars or whatever BS (so far, only six American service members have (tragically) died, so I really don't think it's concern for our troops). Immoral position to take in the face of this regime, but ok. That's not what most of this thread is doing, though. People are instead moralizing at actual Iranians and pretending to care about the girls school that was bombed (unconfirmed that this was even Israel/the US and not Iran itself) or the future of Iran. Where were you when this regime murder FORTY THOUSAND OF ITS OWN PEOPLE?? When it tortured dissidents in secret prisons, threw acid on women for not covering their hair, literally went into hospitals where protesters were being treated and shot them point blank in the head? You don't give one flying f about Iranian people. Please don't pretend otherwise.

As far as I can tell, so far, all America has done is kill (extremely justifiably) a bunch of monstrous butchers and weakened their grip on power. This may or may not lead to regime change, but I can tell you for damn certain the regime is not going to be able to carry on the same way after this. Absolute WORST case scenario, the regime persists but its nuclear ambitions are done for and it becomes more friendly to US interests.

You're allowed to define your experiences. That doesn't mean you get to sign my kids up to die in your war. Six people is too many. If you'd like to die fighting the Iranian regime, no one is going to stop you.

This is simply TDS and delusions about Israel.

Why don’t people understand there are a lot of Dems who are ACTUALLY peaceniks? Who protested the Iraq war. Who protested Gaza because it was clear it went way beyond strategy. Women and children suffer in war. Soldiers die for interests that aren’t always clear. There is nothing good about it.

The irony being that Trump was supposed to be a master negotiator who would keep us out of war. He is a destabilizing force.

No one likes war. I also don’t like the wanton terror Islam brings to every nation.

so this is a war on Islam?

Islam has declared war on everyone that isn’t Islamic. We are just showing them that ain’t gonna play.

For those young’uns out there, Iran was pretty Western in the 1970s

Funny how we didn’t have any enemies in the Middle East till 1948.

Maybe they’re declaring war on everyone that’s attacking them.

You forget about WWI? Ottomans fought with the Central Powers.

Not to mention the mess during WWII, Suez crisis, etc.

Hasn’t exactly been a paradigm of peace and tranquility.

The Suez “crisis” was Egypt deciding that it owns its own freaking canal. It’s a “crisis” when western powers can no longer steal from native people I guess. 🤷‍♀️

Your history is a bit rough. And that’s being polite.

Egyptian government had previously sold its shares to Brits. Not to mention that Egypt unilaterally abrogated the treaty re the base at Suez.

In any case, the PP’s claim that ME was a Garden of Eden pre ‘48 is, of course, wholly incorrect.

DP so your premise is post 1948 the ME is a garden of Eden because Israel magically appeared? Right. You need to stop doing your own research. For you to say someone else history is rough is the height of arrogance.

In July 1956, Egypt nationalized the Suez Canal Company in retaliation for the U.S. and Britain refusing to fund the Aswan High Dam. Under international law that was legal. Egypt paid financial compensation to the former shareholders of the Universal Suez Canal Company following its nationalization in 1956. A formal settlement was not reached until July 1958 following the Suez Crisis. Egypt fulfilled its final payment obligations by early 1963.

On October 29, 1956, Israel invaded the Sinai Peninsula. Britain and France under the secret Protocol of Sèvres with Israel launched their own military intervention to seize the Canal Zone. Israel, France and Britain did not pay reparations to Egypt.

The U.S. opposed the invasion fearing it would drive Arab nations towards the Soviet Union. The Soviet Union threatened nuclear retaliation against the Israel, France and Britain.

Nice googling and creative editing. Zero percent chance you had any knowledge of Sueze before posting this.

And my premise is simple: the claim that the ME was an idyllic bastion of peace and coexistence prior to 1948 is an absurd fantasy that bears no relation whatsoever to reality.

Moreover the attendant myth that the ME would be an Edenic paradise but for the twin evils of Israel and the US is equally absurd.

There are myriad causes of ME conflict, ranging from tribalism, sectarian conflict, post-colonial malaise, and yes outside meddling by the US and many others.

The idea that the current situation is solely America’s (or Israel’s) responsibility is extraordinarily simplistic and demonstrably wrong.

You’re being transparent. The things you are claiming about the Suez happened in 1956 after 1948 so if anything you’re proving PP’s point.

Correct me if I’m wrong but the Middle East was not involved in WW1 and WW2. In fact, Iran took hundreds of thousands of Jewish refugees from Poland when the US and Britain refused. The Middle East was not responsible for slaughtering six million Jews. So why are they being slaughtered? Netanyahu waited 40 years to attack Iran. Is there any reason Israel couldn’t declare war on Germany in 1948 or even 1970 -just two decades after the worst holocaust in human history?

You’re wrong. Much of the ME sided with Central Powers in WWI. Palestinian leadership sided with Nazis in WW2. Roots of Suez issue arose in the 19th century.

You apparently don’t have the slightest knowledge of the region’s history or sources of conflict.

You don’t have the slightest common sense. The Middle East was not the hotbed for WW1 or WW2. European refugees fled to cities like Beirut, Alexandria, Tehran, Jerusalem. Remember?

Who they allied with is of little relevance. There were Zionist Jews who also allied with Hitler/germany because it served a political agenda to increase immigration to Palestine. You forget to mention Palestine was a British protectorate at the time so there were soldiers (Jewish and Palestinian) summoned to fight for the Allies/Brits together.

You also didn’t answer why Israel never avenged Germany but waited 40 years for the US to kill a 86 year old man and a school of little girls.

Gee, I wonder what your agenda might be???

So funny. Arguing that the Ottoman Empire’s alliance in WWI didn’t profoundly impact the region’s subsequent history is just silly.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You people are absolutely f'ing deranged. I am Iranian. My parents are Iranian. My entire very large extended family is Iranian. Every. Single. One. of the Iranian people I know are absolutely THRILLED with this turn of events. They are literally taking to the streets and celebrating, including here in DC.

I am a lifelong progressive Democrat. Typically, progressives center the narratives of people directly affected and allow them to define their own oppression. But now that they see an opening to criticize Israel (75% of this thread is foaming-at-the mouth, over-the-top, ISIS-level anti-Israel conspiracy propaganda), suddenly what actual Iranians say and feel doesn't matter to them at all. I don't care that Israel was involved here. I simply do not care. If they're the ones that create a catalyst for change in my country that ends up freeing 93 million people from the hellscape they've been living in, great. You people are so BLINDED by your maniacal hatred of Israel and to a lesser extent Trump (who I'm no fan of generally) that you can't perceive the absolute absurd hypocrisy of your position.

It's fine to object to this on the basis that it's not America's affair and they should stay out of it, because tax dollars or whatever BS (so far, only six American service members have (tragically) died, so I really don't think it's concern for our troops). Immoral position to take in the face of this regime, but ok. That's not what most of this thread is doing, though. People are instead moralizing at actual Iranians and pretending to care about the girls school that was bombed (unconfirmed that this was even Israel/the US and not Iran itself) or the future of Iran. Where were you when this regime murder FORTY THOUSAND OF ITS OWN PEOPLE?? When it tortured dissidents in secret prisons, threw acid on women for not covering their hair, literally went into hospitals where protesters were being treated and shot them point blank in the head? You don't give one flying f about Iranian people. Please don't pretend otherwise.

As far as I can tell, so far, all America has done is kill (extremely justifiably) a bunch of monstrous butchers and weakened their grip on power. This may or may not lead to regime change, but I can tell you for damn certain the regime is not going to be able to carry on the same way after this. Absolute WORST case scenario, the regime persists but its nuclear ambitions are done for and it becomes more friendly to US interests.

You're allowed to define your experiences. That doesn't mean you get to sign my kids up to die in your war. Six people is too many. If you'd like to die fighting the Iranian regime, no one is going to stop you.

This is simply TDS and delusions about Israel.

Why don’t people understand there are a lot of Dems who are ACTUALLY peaceniks? Who protested the Iraq war. Who protested Gaza because it was clear it went way beyond strategy. Women and children suffer in war. Soldiers die for interests that aren’t always clear. There is nothing good about it.

The irony being that Trump was supposed to be a master negotiator who would keep us out of war. He is a destabilizing force.

No one likes war. I also don’t like the wanton terror Islam brings to every nation.

so this is a war on Islam?

Islam has declared war on everyone that isn’t Islamic. We are just showing them that ain’t gonna play.

For those young’uns out there, Iran was pretty Western in the 1970s

Funny how we didn’t have any enemies in the Middle East till 1948.

Maybe they’re declaring war on everyone that’s attacking them.

You forget about WWI? Ottomans fought with the Central Powers.

Not to mention the mess during WWII, Suez crisis, etc.

Hasn’t exactly been a paradigm of peace and tranquility.

The Suez “crisis” was Egypt deciding that it owns its own freaking canal. It’s a “crisis” when western powers can no longer steal from native people I guess. 🤷‍♀️

Your history is a bit rough. And that’s being polite.

Egyptian government had previously sold its shares to Brits. Not to mention that Egypt unilaterally abrogated the treaty re the base at Suez.

In any case, the PP’s claim that ME was a Garden of Eden pre ‘48 is, of course, wholly incorrect.

DP so your premise is post 1948 the ME is a garden of Eden because Israel magically appeared? Right. You need to stop doing your own research. For you to say someone else history is rough is the height of arrogance.

In July 1956, Egypt nationalized the Suez Canal Company in retaliation for the U.S. and Britain refusing to fund the Aswan High Dam. Under international law that was legal. Egypt paid financial compensation to the former shareholders of the Universal Suez Canal Company following its nationalization in 1956. A formal settlement was not reached until July 1958 following the Suez Crisis. Egypt fulfilled its final payment obligations by early 1963.

On October 29, 1956, Israel invaded the Sinai Peninsula. Britain and France under the secret Protocol of Sèvres with Israel launched their own military intervention to seize the Canal Zone. Israel, France and Britain did not pay reparations to Egypt.

The U.S. opposed the invasion fearing it would drive Arab nations towards the Soviet Union. The Soviet Union threatened nuclear retaliation against the Israel, France and Britain.

Nice googling and creative editing. Zero percent chance you had any knowledge of Sueze before posting this.

And my premise is simple: the claim that the ME was an idyllic bastion of peace and coexistence prior to 1948 is an absurd fantasy that bears no relation whatsoever to reality.

Moreover the attendant myth that the ME would be an Edenic paradise but for the twin evils of Israel and the US is equally absurd.

There are myriad causes of ME conflict, ranging from tribalism, sectarian conflict, post-colonial malaise, and yes outside meddling by the US and many others.

The idea that the current situation is solely America’s (or Israel’s) responsibility is extraordinarily simplistic and demonstrably wrong.

You’re being transparent. The things you are claiming about the Suez happened in 1956 after 1948 so if anything you’re proving PP’s point.

Correct me if I’m wrong but the Middle East was not involved in WW1 and WW2. In fact, Iran took hundreds of thousands of Jewish refugees from Poland when the US and Britain refused. The Middle East was not responsible for slaughtering six million Jews. So why are they being slaughtered? Netanyahu waited 40 years to attack Iran. Is there any reason Israel couldn’t declare war on Germany in 1948 or even 1970 -just two decades after the worst holocaust in human history?

You’re wrong. Much of the ME sided with Central Powers in WWI. Palestinian leadership sided with Nazis in WW2. Roots of Suez issue arose in the 19th century.

You apparently don’t have the slightest knowledge of the region’s history or sources of conflict.

Except for that whole Lawrence of Arabia thing.

You apparently don't have the slightest knowledge of the region's history or sources of conflict.

??? He further demonstrates my point. Brits intervening against the Ottomans because…they sided with the Central Powers in WWI.

Your example illustrates my point. Thank you.

You mean the Arab Revolt, lol.

You really shouldn't pretend to know anything about the region or its history.