Anonymous
02/02/2025 09:39
Subject: Plane crash DCA?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Why would anyone hate her? There is no indication that this was intentional.
Because their wife and only child died because of either her deliberate act or gross incompetence?
There is no indication of either of those.
Why are you jumping to conclusions without any evidence?
We don't know who in the helo was responsible, but we do know they acted recklessly.
We don't know anything until the investigation is over.
We know they ignored the commands from ATC.
If true, then it would be the fault of the white male co-pilot who was in communication with ATCs. But that would go against the desired narrative of the trolls here that it's all the fault of the woman...
I'm leaning this way - it will come down to who was controlling the joystick and rudder of the copter right? It's no more trolling to think a woman did something wrong than it is to think a man did something wrong - that you see it this way though, shows your bias not the posters - it's speculation either way. What's not speculation is that at least one of the helicopter pilots' actions are inexplicable and caused the crash. At best this was gross incompetence. Worst is murder suicide.
No, it won’t necessarily mean that. The fact you can’t think beyond that one view shows your own limited thinking.
The pilot using all four limbs to control the bird is not in communication with ATC. Communication with ATC is the job of the copilot.
The copilot and pilot may have miscommunicated.
Navy SEALs crashed a Black Hawk when they killed bin Laden. Crashes happen.
When men do it, it is perfectly acceptable, no rabid hunt to pry into their personal lives and make an example out of them, dig into their social media, etc.
Anonymous
02/02/2025 09:37
Subject: Plane crash DCA?
Anonymous wrote:Sorry if I missed something - do we have an FAA chief yet or still no? Still thinking we don't need one?
The previous one didn't do anything about it. Was he good at his job or just another mediocre middle manager?
Anonymous
02/02/2025 09:36
Subject: Plane crash DCA?
If the female pilot was the evaluator of the pilot in training, she would be responsible.
There was a male pilot who was her evaluator.
Why is everyone focused on blaming her?
It was a male who put the training plans in place.
The female pilot was training.
Whenever American service members die in a training exercise, it's a tragedy.
How much money is spent on BS Virtual reality and augmented reality training and "serious" games with Meta and Microsoft and Bezos selling cheap plastic virtual reality glasses. Millions of dollars spent on BS "training" that isn't true simulation training. A true simulator is a BH helicopter simulator not a BS video game. That costs too much.
Think people.
Dig deeper.
There was a male pilot who was her evaluator.
Why is everyone focused on blaming her?
It was a male who put the training plans in place.
The female pilot was training.
Whenever American service members die in a training exercise, it's a tragedy.
How much money is spent on BS Virtual reality and augmented reality training and "serious" games with Meta and Microsoft and Bezos selling cheap plastic virtual reality glasses. Millions of dollars spent on BS "training" that isn't true simulation training. A true simulator is a BH helicopter simulator not a BS video game. That costs too much.
Think people.
Dig deeper.
Anonymous
02/02/2025 09:34
Subject: Plane crash DCA?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Why would anyone hate her? There is no indication that this was intentional.
Because their wife and only child died because of either her deliberate act or gross incompetence?
There is no indication of either of those.
Why are you jumping to conclusions without any evidence?
We don't know who in the helo was responsible, but we do know they acted recklessly.
We don't know anything until the investigation is over.
Exactly.
Anonymous
02/02/2025 09:33
Subject: Plane crash DCA?
I have reached a point of acceptance that we may never fully know or understand what happened in the helicopter to cause those last minute maneuvers. Like even if we get audio, I think it's likely it still won't make perfect sense.
On the one hand this is okay because I think ultimately it's the systemic issues of which we are already aware that are likely to be at fault -- the volume of helicopter traffic through that corridor, the volume of plane traffic at National, the understaffing of ATC. And these are all solvable problems that we now have 67 tragic reasons to address.
On the other hand it will only lead to endless speculation and this idiotic conversation about DEI which is so incredibly unproductive and harmful. If there's any way we can get a resolution that puts that to rest, I hope we do.
This didn't happen because of DEI.
On the one hand this is okay because I think ultimately it's the systemic issues of which we are already aware that are likely to be at fault -- the volume of helicopter traffic through that corridor, the volume of plane traffic at National, the understaffing of ATC. And these are all solvable problems that we now have 67 tragic reasons to address.
On the other hand it will only lead to endless speculation and this idiotic conversation about DEI which is so incredibly unproductive and harmful. If there's any way we can get a resolution that puts that to rest, I hope we do.
This didn't happen because of DEI.
Anonymous
02/02/2025 09:33
Subject: Plane crash DCA?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Why would anyone hate her? There is no indication that this was intentional.
Because their wife and only child died because of either her deliberate act or gross incompetence?
There is no indication of either of those.
Why are you jumping to conclusions without any evidence?
We don't know who in the helo was responsible, but we do know they acted recklessly.
No, we don’t know that.
Anonymous
02/02/2025 09:33
Subject: Plane crash DCA?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Why would anyone hate her? There is no indication that this was intentional.
Because their wife and only child died because of either her deliberate act or gross incompetence?
There is no indication of either of those.
Why are you jumping to conclusions without any evidence?
We don't know who in the helo was responsible, but we do know they acted recklessly.
We don't know anything until the investigation is over.
We know they ignored the commands from ATC.
If true, then it would be the fault of the white male co-pilot who was in communication with ATCs. But that would go against the desired narrative of the trolls here that it's all the fault of the woman...
I'm leaning this way - it will come down to who was controlling the joystick and rudder of the copter right? It's no more trolling to think a woman did something wrong than it is to think a man did something wrong - that you see it this way though, shows your bias not the posters - it's speculation either way. What's not speculation is that at least one of the helicopter pilots' actions are inexplicable and caused the crash. At best this was gross incompetence. Worst is murder suicide.
No, it won’t necessarily mean that. The fact you can’t think beyond that one view shows your own limited thinking.
The pilot using all four limbs to control the bird is not in communication with ATC. Communication with ATC is the job of the copilot.
The copilot and pilot may have miscommunicated.
Navy SEALs crashed a Black Hawk when they killed bin Laden. Crashes happen.
Anonymous
02/02/2025 09:27
Subject: Re:Plane crash DCA?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:
The WH social aide gig is a prestigious thing. The ones I know went on to become a US Senator and a CEO.
Funny how the posters with pitchforks seem quiet now that she’s been named.
The PR angle of listing her prizes and awards and accolades was smart. They made the story instead of letting Trump make the story.
Interesting. Why does she need crisis PR? Do the two male victims in the helicopter have crisis PR? Why were their names everywhere and only hers was shielded for 3 days?
How would I know? Are you going to share your conspiracy theory now?
Why don’t we know the name of the VIP?
Who cares about the VIP? This pilot slammed a helicopter into a commercial jetliner. That’s all people will remember.
And why was she there in the first place? No, that's not all I will remember.
I want to know why they were training in a place where commercial airliners are landing.
Why were they training in a place where a near miss had happened just the day before?
I don't care about the pilot. Put a pilot into a game of dodgeball with civilians and people are probably going to get killed like what just happened.
Exactly.
We may never know exactly what happened in the helicopter but we DO know it was a military training flight with a relatively inexperienced pilot in a civilian area that EVERYONE KNEW was high risk.
Anonymous
02/02/2025 09:11
Subject: Plane crash DCA?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Why would anyone hate her? There is no indication that this was intentional.
Because their wife and only child died because of either her deliberate act or gross incompetence?
There is no indication of either of those.
Why are you jumping to conclusions without any evidence?
We don't know who in the helo was responsible, but we do know they acted recklessly.
We don't know anything until the investigation is over.
We know they ignored the commands from ATC.
If true, then it would be the fault of the white male co-pilot who was in communication with ATCs. But that would go against the desired narrative of the trolls here that it's all the fault of the woman...
I'm leaning this way - it will come down to who was controlling the joystick and rudder of the copter right? It's no more trolling to think a woman did something wrong than it is to think a man did something wrong - that you see it this way though, shows your bias not the posters - it's speculation either way. What's not speculation is that at least one of the helicopter pilots' actions are inexplicable and caused the crash. At best this was gross incompetence. Worst is murder suicide.
Or it could be that the senior pilot picked the wrong place to test someone with less experience.
"Initial indications suggest this may have been a checkride, or periodic evaluation by an experienced instructor pilot of a less experienced pilot," said Brad Bowman, a military analyst with the Foundation for Defense of Democracies and a former Black Hawk pilot.
"Sometimes an instructor pilot will test the less experienced aviator to see how they respond, but such a technique would have been unusual and inadvisable in that location given the reduced margin for error."
https://www.npr.org/2025/01/30/nx-s1-5281246/pentagon-jet-military-helicopter-collision
Anonymous
02/02/2025 09:11
Subject: Plane crash DCA?
Sorry if I missed something - do we have an FAA chief yet or still no? Still thinking we don't need one?
Anonymous
02/02/2025 09:04
Subject: Plane crash DCA?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:It is possible that if the helicopter saw the plane at the last minute, that is why they went up - to try and go over the plane. The plane was descending so their only option at close distance would have been to go over the top.
According to the pilot forum and their airport maps, planes should be at ~280 feet as they cross the east bank of the river when coming in to runway 33.
The TCAS (collision alert system) turns off when they are that low to the ground and in landing mode so they wouldn't have gotten a warning of a collision.
The warning was going off for the ATC but if you watch the video of the day before, the PAT11 helicopter set off the warning system 3 times in its one flight so they must be very used to hearing it go off.
I don’t know but when I listened to the ATC instructions they specifically tell the BH to confirm it sees the jet descending to land at runway 33, which requires planes to come diagonally across the Potomac (which there is less than 1 mile long) from Bolling in DC to the north of Daingerfield Island in Virginia/DCA. It literally jets across from east to west. NOT the runway that has planes line up behind the WW Bridge so they are coming up the middle of the Potomac.
The BH not only was too high, it was too far west. Did the BH not know the difference between runway 33 and the other 2 runways?
According to the pilot forum, it is extremely common practice for the helicopters on route 4 to go down the middle of the river instead of hugging the bank. They had a few reasons why they do that but none were surprised or thought this was anything out of the ordinary.
My armchair assessment after reading the pilot forums is to agree with their assessment. The BH crew were running various tasks and checklists so their attention was divided. They saw the line of air traffic straight ahead and thought that was who they had visual on, not realizing there was a plane to their left turning in to cross the river. They were west and high but not in any atypical pattern given how heicopters often fly Route 4. According to the pilots, between reflections in the water, city lights, and the disorientation of night and difficulty judging distance, they didn't realize they were on a collision course. They saw the plane at the last second and tried to correct and miss but it was too late.
Route 1 for helos is north of Wilson bridge and Old Town, and requires 200’ max alt.
Route 4 is south of Wilson bridge and you can do 400’ max alto and sure, drift around the river for fun.
Big difference. ACTIVE AIRPORT!
I used to work in the office building next to the Torpedo Art Factory, right south of DCA on the river.
Correct, Black hawks came down on the east and were often barely above the tree line of Bolling. 150 feet high. Maybe they popped up to clear the next bridge and then go more middle of River away from the National harbor and Ferris wheel (have also been on that when black hawks went by, south of Wilson bridge).
Anonymous
02/02/2025 09:00
Subject: Plane crash DCA?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Her qualifications look amazing. God bless her and her family.
What are they? High pressure piloting black hawks?
You probably shouldn't bother looking up her credentials because you'll just get jealous of how smart she was and all the awards she won from the miliary.
Just stay in your little bubble where it's safe.
There is nothing wrong with her credentials at all. But to say that are amazing is an exaggeration. Her active duty Army awards are very standard. No fault to her considering her short time in and that she hasn’t had the opportunity to be deployed
The only way to know if anyone’s credentials or experience or qualifications or quality of experience are excellent, good, average, bad is to compare all said credentials with 100s of other peers (BH pilots) over the decades and their results.
A quick run down of highlights is fine for mass media purposes.
As for “I want to go to med school,” I don’t know what that implies. That’s something tons of people go round saying.
Top grades? Already applied? Top 20% mcat score? Passed org chem and premed classes with flying colors? Has her recommendations ready?
Anonymous
02/02/2025 08:57
Subject: Plane crash DCA?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:It is possible that if the helicopter saw the plane at the last minute, that is why they went up - to try and go over the plane. The plane was descending so their only option at close distance would have been to go over the top.
According to the pilot forum and their airport maps, planes should be at ~280 feet as they cross the east bank of the river when coming in to runway 33.
The TCAS (collision alert system) turns off when they are that low to the ground and in landing mode so they wouldn't have gotten a warning of a collision.
The warning was going off for the ATC but if you watch the video of the day before, the PAT11 helicopter set off the warning system 3 times in its one flight so they must be very used to hearing it go off.
I don’t know but when I listened to the ATC instructions they specifically tell the BH to confirm it sees the jet descending to land at runway 33, which requires planes to come diagonally across the Potomac (which there is less than 1 mile long) from Bolling in DC to the north of Daingerfield Island in Virginia/DCA. It literally jets across from east to west. NOT the runway that has planes line up behind the WW Bridge so they are coming up the middle of the Potomac.
The BH not only was too high, it was too far west. Did the BH not know the difference between runway 33 and the other 2 runways?
According to the pilot forum, it is extremely common practice for the helicopters on route 4 to go down the middle of the river instead of hugging the bank. They had a few reasons why they do that but none were surprised or thought this was anything out of the ordinary.
My armchair assessment after reading the pilot forums is to agree with their assessment. The BH crew were running various tasks and checklists so their attention was divided. They saw the line of air traffic straight ahead and thought that was who they had visual on, not realizing there was a plane to their left turning in to cross the river. They were west and high but not in any atypical pattern given how heicopters often fly Route 4. According to the pilots, between reflections in the water, city lights, and the disorientation of night and difficulty judging distance, they didn't realize they were on a collision course. They saw the plane at the last second and tried to correct and miss but it was too late.
Route 1 for helos is north of Wilson bridge and Old Town, and requires 200’ max alt.
Route 4 is south of Wilson bridge and you can do 400’ max alto and sure, drift around the river for fun.
Big difference. ACTIVE AIRPORT!
Routinely violated. The FAA said it was fine.
Anonymous
02/02/2025 08:55
Subject: Plane crash DCA?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:It is possible that if the helicopter saw the plane at the last minute, that is why they went up - to try and go over the plane. The plane was descending so their only option at close distance would have been to go over the top.
According to the pilot forum and their airport maps, planes should be at ~280 feet as they cross the east bank of the river when coming in to runway 33.
The TCAS (collision alert system) turns off when they are that low to the ground and in landing mode so they wouldn't have gotten a warning of a collision.
The warning was going off for the ATC but if you watch the video of the day before, the PAT11 helicopter set off the warning system 3 times in its one flight so they must be very used to hearing it go off.
I don’t know but when I listened to the ATC instructions they specifically tell the BH to confirm it sees the jet descending to land at runway 33, which requires planes to come diagonally across the Potomac (which there is less than 1 mile long) from Bolling in DC to the north of Daingerfield Island in Virginia/DCA. It literally jets across from east to west. NOT the runway that has planes line up behind the WW Bridge so they are coming up the middle of the Potomac.
The BH not only was too high, it was too far west. Did the BH not know the difference between runway 33 and the other 2 runways?
According to the pilot forum, it is extremely common practice for the helicopters on route 4 to go down the middle of the river instead of hugging the bank. They had a few reasons why they do that but none were surprised or thought this was anything out of the ordinary.
My armchair assessment after reading the pilot forums is to agree with their assessment. The BH crew were running various tasks and checklists so their attention was divided. They saw the line of air traffic straight ahead and thought that was who they had visual on, not realizing there was a plane to their left turning in to cross the river. They were west and high but not in any atypical pattern given how heicopters often fly Route 4. According to the pilots, between reflections in the water, city lights, and the disorientation of night and difficulty judging distance, they didn't realize they were on a collision course. They saw the plane at the last second and tried to correct and miss but it was too late.
Route 1 for helos is north of Wilson bridge and Old Town, and requires 200’ max alt.
Route 4 is south of Wilson bridge and you can do 400’ max alto and sure, drift around the river for fun.
Big difference. ACTIVE AIRPORT!
Anonymous
02/02/2025 08:50
Subject: Plane crash DCA?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:It is possible that if the helicopter saw the plane at the last minute, that is why they went up - to try and go over the plane. The plane was descending so their only option at close distance would have been to go over the top.
According to the pilot forum and their airport maps, planes should be at ~280 feet as they cross the east bank of the river when coming in to runway 33.
The TCAS (collision alert system) turns off when they are that low to the ground and in landing mode so they wouldn't have gotten a warning of a collision.
The warning was going off for the ATC but if you watch the video of the day before, the PAT11 helicopter set off the warning system 3 times in its one flight so they must be very used to hearing it go off.
I don’t know but when I listened to the ATC instructions they specifically tell the BH to confirm it sees the jet descending to land at runway 33, which requires planes to come diagonally across the Potomac (which there is less than 1 mile long) from Bolling in DC to the north of Daingerfield Island in Virginia/DCA. It literally jets across from east to west. NOT the runway that has planes line up behind the WW Bridge so they are coming up the middle of the Potomac.
The BH not only was too high, it was too far west. Did the BH not know the difference between runway 33 and the other 2 runways?
+1