Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Her qualifications look amazing. God bless her and her family.

What are they? High pressure piloting black hawks?

You probably shouldn't bother looking up her credentials because you'll just get jealous of how smart she was and all the awards she won from the miliary.

Just stay in your little bubble where it's safe.

Yes, who wouldn't be jealous of a woman pilot who died in a highly suspicious fatal accident in which her helicopter navigated directly into a clearly visible jet plane for 25 seconds until crashing into it and killing 64 innocent people? We don't know her role yet versus the male pilot until we get the cockpit voice recorder of course. This is crazy, she piloted a helicopter that at best negligently killed 64 people including a bunch of 13 yr old figure skaters, there's no hero here ladies and gents.

It was a terrible accident that was waiting to happen. A similar crash almost occurred less than 24 hours before. Who was piloting that helicopter? Sounds like this could have happened to any pilot and this one just happened to be a woman.

The pilot forum I was reading was not at all surprised that this happened. They were more suprised that it hadn't happened sooner, felt that everyone knew this was an accident waiting to happen, and were mostly grateful it wasn't them as it could have been any flight. The ones who fly DCA often were not angry at the helicopter or ATC but at so much traffic being allowed to use DCA and the amount of helicopter traffic in the area over the last few years. They place all the blame on the decision makers who they feel created a very unsafe air space. They all accept human error can happen and does happen and it is the job of decision makers to create safe air spaces so that minor human errors don't lead to catastrophic failures.

I don’t entirely agree. I’d be more opt to believe that if they helicopter was doing all the right things, and still crashed. But they weren’t. There were several big errors made and they weren’t following the guidelines for that route, despite the warnings from ATC of oncoming traffic (and where it was and where it was going) and correcting altitude- which they didn’t do

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:28 years old.

Can someone explain how someone so young in the military was… a both a high ranking helicopter pilot and moonlighting as a White House aide?

The WH social aide gig is a prestigious thing. The ones I know went on to become a US Senator and a CEO.

Funny how the posters with pitchforks seem quiet now that she’s been named.

The PR angle of listing her prizes and awards and accolades was smart. They made the story instead of letting Trump make the story.

People cooled down because it appeared to be a middle class white woman and the fish they were hoping to catch was a transwoman given the anti-trans political shift. I totally disagree that hailing how wonderful someone who piloted a helicopter into 64 civilians on a plane was a stroke of PR genius. A stroke of trying the old tricks that had been proven to have failed miserably and for good couple months ago more likely. Just say nothing, yes there's a gullible public, and you can spin a lot, but not someone who piloted a helicopter into 64 civilians into a hero. Any commendation of her just will make people hate her more.

Important fact is she was not there by choice. She and the others on the helicopter were just following orders from the army to conduct risky flight training in civilian airspace. That's where the dumb decision was. Also, she was not the only person in control of the plane, and not the MALE voice on the recorder saying he saw the plane. It's sick to seek out and blame this tragedy on the one female involved, especially since she was, by all metrics, eminently qualified to be where she was.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:Anyone else’s mind still blown that DC airspace is used for training? I guess I thought all those military helicopters were actually doing legitimate military work, not training. I get that training is a necessity but still.

Tell me you have no experience with the military without telling me…

This thread really illuminates how many people in our society do not understand basic information about the military because they have never served. Many people today have not only never served, they have no family or friends who have ever served. Thus, they have no context for understanding events that involve the military.

I understand that 70 people are dead because the military inexplicably decided to do training in a civilian area. Being that I am a civilian over whose neighborhood they train, I think I have every right to ask questions.

I have no military experience, but I am an American and know that a few of our most critical military targets are in DC. I'm quite happy to know that the AF and Army regularly run training exercises in the airspace above DC.

These types of exercises are to help leaders escape. They don't help the rest of us, who will be stuck in traffic when the sh-- goes down.

That's wishful thinking on their part. How big is this helicopter?

Big. Big rotors and blades and nose to tail was 2/3s the length of the little regional jet.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is possible that if the helicopter saw the plane at the last minute, that is why they went up - to try and go over the plane. The plane was descending so their only option at close distance would have been to go over the top.

According to the pilot forum and their airport maps, planes should be at ~280 feet as they cross the east bank of the river when coming in to runway 33.

The TCAS (collision alert system) turns off when they are that low to the ground and in landing mode so they wouldn't have gotten a warning of a collision.

The warning was going off for the ATC but if you watch the video of the day before, the PAT11 helicopter set off the warning system 3 times in its one flight so they must be very used to hearing it go off.

I don’t know but when I listened to the ATC instructions they specifically tell the BH to confirm it sees the jet descending to land at runway 33, which requires planes to come diagonally across the Potomac (which there is less than 1 mile long) from Bolling in DC to the north of Daingerfield Island in Virginia/DCA. It literally jets across from east to west. NOT the runway that has planes line up behind the WW Bridge so they are coming up the middle of the Potomac.

The BH not only was too high, it was too far west. Did the BH not know the difference between runway 33 and the other 2 runways?

According to the pilot forum, it is extremely common practice for the helicopters on route 4 to go down the middle of the river instead of hugging the bank. They had a few reasons why they do that but none were surprised or thought this was anything out of the ordinary.

My armchair assessment after reading the pilot forums is to agree with their assessment. The BH crew were running various tasks and checklists so their attention was divided. They saw the line of air traffic straight ahead and thought that was who they had visual on, not realizing there was a plane to their left turning in to cross the river. They were west and high but not in any atypical pattern given how heicopters often fly Route 4. According to the pilots, between reflections in the water, city lights, and the disorientation of night and difficulty judging distance, they didn't realize they were on a collision course. They saw the plane at the last second and tried to correct and miss but it was too late.

This would mean the BH pilots didn’t know the difference between the approaches for runway 33 and 1 which I really doubt. ATC specifically said runway 33. If a BH pilot think all the traffic waiting ahead in a line behind WW bridge literally in the middle of the Potomac is for runway 33 and not 1 they should not be flying there at all. I live in Alexandria and we see these planes all the time. There is a distinct difference between planes waiting to land at 33 and 1. They’re not in the same spot. Track this particular jet, who originally was going to land at 1 and then was told he had to land at 33 so he had to do a loop over MD/DC to get in the correct position. He just doesn’t come straight up the Potomac.

I don’t care what you read on the pilot forum. Go over to the WW bridge and see for yourself. There is even a pedestrian bridge portion, you can literally walk across it and stand in the middle. Look up. Those planes that would have been ahead of the BH in a line ahead, are waiting for 1. Listen to the ATC tapes that have been released. They’re told to make visual on plane landing at 33 and they say got it.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Her qualifications look amazing. God bless her and her family.

What are they? High pressure piloting black hawks?

You probably shouldn't bother looking up her credentials because you'll just get jealous of how smart she was and all the awards she won from the miliary.

Just stay in your little bubble where it's safe.

Yes, who wouldn't be jealous of a woman pilot who died in a highly suspicious fatal accident in which her helicopter navigated directly into a clearly visible jet plane for 25 seconds until crashing into it and killing 64 innocent people? We don't know her role yet versus the male pilot until we get the cockpit voice recorder of course. This is crazy, she piloted a helicopter that at best negligently killed 64 people including a bunch of 13 yr old figure skaters, there's no hero here ladies and gents.

It was a terrible accident that was waiting to happen. A similar crash almost occurred less than 24 hours before. Who was piloting that helicopter? Sounds like this could have happened to any pilot and this one just happened to be a woman.

The pilot forum I was reading was not at all surprised that this happened. They were more suprised that it hadn't happened sooner, felt that everyone knew this was an accident waiting to happen, and were mostly grateful it wasn't them as it could have been any flight. The ones who fly DCA often were not angry at the helicopter or ATC but at so much traffic being allowed to use DCA and the amount of helicopter traffic in the area over the last few years. They place all the blame on the decision makers who they feel created a very unsafe air space. They all accept human error can happen and does happen and it is the job of decision makers to create safe air spaces so that minor human errors don't lead to catastrophic failures.

Seems logical. I’m very skeptical the government will make a lasting course-correction here though.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:28 years old.

Can someone explain how someone so young in the military was… a both a high ranking helicopter pilot and moonlighting as a White House aide?

The WH social aide gig is a prestigious thing. The ones I know went on to become a US Senator and a CEO.

Funny how the posters with pitchforks seem quiet now that she’s been named.

The PR angle of listing her prizes and awards and accolades was smart. They made the story instead of letting Trump make the story.

People cooled down because it appeared to be a middle class white woman and the fish they were hoping to catch was a transwoman given the anti-trans political shift. I totally disagree that hailing how wonderful someone who piloted a helicopter into 64 civilians on a plane was a stroke of PR genius. A stroke of trying the old tricks that had been proven to have failed miserably and for good couple months ago more likely. Just say nothing, yes there's a gullible public, and you can spin a lot, but not someone who piloted a helicopter into 64 civilians into a hero. Any commendation of her just will make people hate her more.

The delay was wrong but now w the release we’re back to square one: what happened to or in the helo the last 5 seconds of this checked.

Mechanical? Medical? Panic? Total ignorance?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Latest NTSB briefing said data from CRJ showed altitude of 325 ft (+/- 25 ft) at impact. They don't have data from BH yet but tower data is preliminarily showing BH altitude at 200 ft. But tower data still needs to be cleaned up and could be showing a few seconds delay. My takeaway is that the CRJ data is most accurate and shows impact at 300-350 ft and tower data is suggesting BH was at 200 ft seconds before impact but obviously climbed to 300-350 at time of impact.

Briefing also mentioned that CRJ crew had a verbal reaction a second before impact and the plane started to pitch up, presumably to try to maneuver away. So the pilots saw it coming at the last second.

I hate they saw it coming..
That poor NTSB representative needs a break. I can’t imagine dealing with this and being asked the same damn question repeatedly, not to mention the one about how his meeting with the families went. The man was in tears.

Same.

Sounds like all ATC nation wide need to also notify jets of military helos intersecting their landings. Can’t trust anyone to process info correctly.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Her qualifications look amazing. God bless her and her family.

What are they? High pressure piloting black hawks?

You probably shouldn't bother looking up her credentials because you'll just get jealous of how smart she was and all the awards she won from the miliary.

Just stay in your little bubble where it's safe.

There is nothing wrong with her credentials at all. But to say that are amazing is an exaggeration. Her active duty Army awards are very standard. No fault to her considering her short time in and that she hasn’t had the opportunity to be deployed

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is possible that if the helicopter saw the plane at the last minute, that is why they went up - to try and go over the plane. The plane was descending so their only option at close distance would have been to go over the top.

According to the pilot forum and their airport maps, planes should be at ~280 feet as they cross the east bank of the river when coming in to runway 33.

The TCAS (collision alert system) turns off when they are that low to the ground and in landing mode so they wouldn't have gotten a warning of a collision.

The warning was going off for the ATC but if you watch the video of the day before, the PAT11 helicopter set off the warning system 3 times in its one flight so they must be very used to hearing it go off.

I don’t know but when I listened to the ATC instructions they specifically tell the BH to confirm it sees the jet descending to land at runway 33, which requires planes to come diagonally across the Potomac (which there is less than 1 mile long) from Bolling in DC to the north of Daingerfield Island in Virginia/DCA. It literally jets across from east to west. NOT the runway that has planes line up behind the WW Bridge so they are coming up the middle of the Potomac.

The BH not only was too high, it was too far west. Did the BH not know the difference between runway 33 and the other 2 runways?

According to the pilot forum, it is extremely common practice for the helicopters on route 4 to go down the middle of the river instead of hugging the bank. They had a few reasons why they do that but none were surprised or thought this was anything out of the ordinary.

My armchair assessment after reading the pilot forums is to agree with their assessment. The BH crew were running various tasks and checklists so their attention was divided. They saw the line of air traffic straight ahead and thought that was who they had visual on, not realizing there was a plane to their left turning in to cross the river. They were west and high but not in any atypical pattern given how heicopters often fly Route 4. According to the pilots, between reflections in the water, city lights, and the disorientation of night and difficulty judging distance, they didn't realize they were on a collision course. They saw the plane at the last second and tried to correct and miss but it was too late.

Anonymous wrote:It is possible that if the helicopter saw the plane at the last minute, that is why they went up - to try and go over the plane. The plane was descending so their only option at close distance would have been to go over the top.

According to the pilot forum and their airport maps, planes should be at ~280 feet as they cross the east bank of the river when coming in to runway 33.

The TCAS (collision alert system) turns off when they are that low to the ground and in landing mode so they wouldn't have gotten a warning of a collision.

The warning was going off for the ATC but if you watch the video of the day before, the PAT11 helicopter set off the warning system 3 times in its one flight so they must be very used to hearing it go off.

The radar data shows helicopter went up a few seconds before collission, several seconds before impact. No, flying up and left into a descending jet isn't all a rotary wing can do, it can stop, drop and hover, it can drop and turn right away from the jet. In a panic anyone can do anything, but I find it hard to believe they didn't see it for the 25 seconds they drove directly towards it.

Anonymous wrote:It is possible that if the helicopter saw the plane at the last minute, that is why they went up - to try and go over the plane. The plane was descending so their only option at close distance would have been to go over the top.

According to the pilot forum and their airport maps, planes should be at ~280 feet as they cross the east bank of the river when coming in to runway 33.

The TCAS (collision alert system) turns off when they are that low to the ground and in landing mode so they wouldn't have gotten a warning of a collision.

The warning was going off for the ATC but if you watch the video of the day before, the PAT11 helicopter set off the warning system 3 times in its one flight so they must be very used to hearing it go off.

I do think it’s possible that’s why the help jerked erratically at the last minute. But it doesn’t explain why it was so far into the middle of the river for quite a few minutes before the crash. The route is to hug the east bank and they were west of that in the middle of the river. Had they stayed there and at the 200ft ceiling where they seemed to be for most of it, we wouldn’t be here discussing this.

Anonymous wrote:It is possible that if the helicopter saw the plane at the last minute, that is why they went up - to try and go over the plane. The plane was descending so their only option at close distance would have been to go over the top.

According to the pilot forum and their airport maps, planes should be at ~280 feet as they cross the east bank of the river when coming in to runway 33.

The TCAS (collision alert system) turns off when they are that low to the ground and in landing mode so they wouldn't have gotten a warning of a collision.

The warning was going off for the ATC but if you watch the video of the day before, the PAT11 helicopter set off the warning system 3 times in its one flight so they must be very used to hearing it go off.

I don’t know but when I listened to the ATC instructions they specifically tell the BH to confirm it sees the jet descending to land at runway 33, which requires planes to come diagonally across the Potomac (which there is less than 1 mile long) from Bolling in DC to the north of Daingerfield Island in Virginia/DCA. It literally jets across from east to west. NOT the runway that has planes line up behind the WW Bridge so they are coming up the middle of the Potomac.

The BH not only was too high, it was too far west. Did the BH not know the difference between runway 33 and the other 2 runways?

It is possible that if the helicopter saw the plane at the last minute, that is why they went up - to try and go over the plane. The plane was descending so their only option at close distance would have been to go over the top.

According to the pilot forum and their airport maps, planes should be at ~280 feet as they cross the east bank of the river when coming in to runway 33.

The TCAS (collision alert system) turns off when they are that low to the ground and in landing mode so they wouldn't have gotten a warning of a collision.

The warning was going off for the ATC but if you watch the video of the day before, the PAT11 helicopter set off the warning system 3 times in its one flight so they must be very used to hearing it go off.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why would anyone hate her? There is no indication that this was intentional.

Because their wife and only child died because of either her deliberate act or gross incompetence?

There is no indication of either of those.

Why are you jumping to conclusions without any evidence?

We don't know who in the helo was responsible, but we do know they acted recklessly.

We don't know anything until the investigation is over.

We know they ignored the commands from ATC.

If true, then it would be the fault of the white male co-pilot who was in communication with ATCs. But that would go against the desired narrative of the trolls here that it's all the fault of the woman...

I'm leaning this way - it will come down to who was controlling the joystick and rudder of the copter right? It's no more trolling to think a woman did something wrong than it is to think a man did something wrong - that you see it this way though, shows your bias not the posters - it's speculation either way. What's not speculation is that at least one of the helicopter pilots' actions are inexplicable and caused the crash. At best this was gross incompetence. Worst is murder suicide.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why would anyone hate her? There is no indication that this was intentional.

Because their wife and only child died because of either her deliberate act or gross incompetence?

There is no indication of either of those.

Why are you jumping to conclusions without any evidence?

We don't know who in the helo was responsible, but we do know they acted recklessly.

We don't know anything until the investigation is over.

Said elites who don't want to answer to the people everywhere and at all times. NTSB released collision height of 325feet plus minus 25 feet based on black box data. Helicopter fleight ceiling was 200 feet. Helicopter appears to have gained 100 feet of altitude into the jet in the final seconds. Know plenty. Would know enough if we get blackhawk cockpit voice data. Why haven't they released it?

Any system that is relying on visual confirmation to maintain 125 feet of separation between fast moving helicopters and aircraft on final approach at night is already a colossal failure. It was only a matter of time until a catastrophic accident occurred. As for who is at fault? Probably Congress for overloading Reagan with too many flights - Reagan has the busiest runway in the country - and for insisting that the Army shepherd VIPs through this incredibly complex air space. Also for not staffing ATC sufficiently. The helicopter and the aircraft should have had separate ATC controllers. But the overall flying environment has been unsafe for ages. Any system that relies on 125 feet separation is doomed to catastrophe. 125 feet is nothing when aircraft are moving at speed in limited visibility conditions.

ATC did fine he notified helicopter of the location, bearing and direction of the jet. Male pilot in helicopter confirmed. You could argue he should have picked up the collision course helicopter was running as that was like 25 seconds, and he only cottoned onto it in the last 10 secs or so. He warns them again, male helicopter pilot confirms visual sighting of jet. This implies he confirmed he would avoid it. Helicopter rose 100 feet into crash into jet.

Yes, silly and dangerous to have helicopters running a 100-200 feet under landing planes - I'm not sure that was what was happening. It happened in this case because the helicopter kept a bearing directly into the plane. It could have done lots of things. hovered, deviated left, not elevated 100 feet suddenly. It's all very weird. Yes, it's obviously generally dangerous anyway to be clustering these military jets across these civil jet flight corridors. It makes me think White House and similar critical locations don't have bunkers - this is a big problem, what you want is a bunker in the presidential residence, beneath congress, etc., and underground tunnel and train to take you out of doge city. Plenty of other countries have something like this. Having rotary wing aircraft zapping the nation's brains around in the middle of a nuclear war sounds stupid.