Anonymous
Post 09/12/2021 14:29     Subject: Diversity Equity and Inclusion
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
The entire woke movement is solely about the failures of a certain racial demographic.


Is it your contention that, if black American culture was more apt to celebrate the value of education and hard work, that demographic would be more likely to experience economic improvement? Historically, for blacks in America, this doesn't seem to have been the case. Maybe it would be different this time around, but I think the "woke" movement is trying to explain and fix some of the disparities Black people have experienced -- whereby education and hard work has not historically resulted in them prospering in the same way other demographics have done with similar levels of effort.


Blacks have had affirmative action for 50 years

Hispanics have been coming to the States in great numbers for 30 years. Why are they doing so much better than blacks ?
Anonymous
Post 09/12/2021 14:25     Subject: Diversity Equity and Inclusion
Anonymous wrote:You have to balance the modest gains from homework against the opportunity costs.


Opportunity costs: Zoned out on needless ADHD drugs so parents don’t have to deal with them, gaming themselves to Hugh scores and Hugh body mass, prescription parties where everyone selects prescription drugs from a big bowl, driving drunk or drugged?
Anonymous
Post 09/12/2021 14:13     Subject: Diversity Equity and Inclusion
When Obama was elected POTUS, I am a registered Republican who voted for him. I voted for him based on his decision not to vote in favor of war in Iraq.

Anyway, I was deeply saddened to hear Michelle Obama say she felt proud of her country for the first time. And I was shocked to hear Obama's preacher Jeremiah Wright about 9/11 and "not God bless America but god$#@! America." Even today you can hear the pain in Michelle Obama when she speaks about her experiences as a young black student at Princeton. She claims that white kids at her elementary school fled because they didn't want to go to school with blacks. She claims her white Princeton roommate switched dorm rooms because she didn't want to room with a her, a black student.

So, as a white woman, who has empathy, I feel sorry for blacks like Michelle Obama and Kolin Kapernick who are truly gifted with opportunities beyond what most white people have in any nation, but especially beyond what most blacks have in any other nation.
Anonymous
Post 09/12/2021 14:03     Subject: Diversity Equity and Inclusion
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Asians, Jews, Italians, Irish -- just off the top of my head -- have succeeded in America despite oppression and institutional biases against them. It's a work in progress, but I tend to believe we'll find that Hispanics are on a similar upward trajectory despite prejudices and institutional biases against them. Same with African immigrants.

I think the primary demographic that's not succeeding and is not on an upward trajectory are natural born Black citizens. I think they face prejudices and institutional biases that are more firmly entrenched against them than any other group. And I think there are internal cultural factors (created in part by historical discrimination) that also work to undermine the success of the demographic.

And, I think DE&I avoids coming at these issues directly, in part, due to political considerations. Perhaps if they can unite all non-whites against whites, they can obtain the political power they think they need to help Black people specifically.



unite all non-whites against whites? Like Zimbabwe? Adversely possesses land and belongings for the greater good?


I think that's an exaggeration, but I think that's sort of what's going on.
Anonymous
Post 09/12/2021 13:56     Subject: Diversity Equity and Inclusion
Anonymous wrote:Asians, Jews, Italians, Irish -- just off the top of my head -- have succeeded in America despite oppression and institutional biases against them. It's a work in progress, but I tend to believe we'll find that Hispanics are on a similar upward trajectory despite prejudices and institutional biases against them. Same with African immigrants.

I think the primary demographic that's not succeeding and is not on an upward trajectory are natural born Black citizens. I think they face prejudices and institutional biases that are more firmly entrenched against them than any other group. And I think there are internal cultural factors (created in part by historical discrimination) that also work to undermine the success of the demographic.

And, I think DE&I avoids coming at these issues directly, in part, due to political considerations. Perhaps if they can unite all non-whites against whites, they can obtain the political power they think they need to help Black people specifically.



unite all non-whites against whites? Like Zimbabwe? Adversely possesses land and belongings for the greater good?
Anonymous
Post 09/12/2021 13:48     Subject: Diversity Equity and Inclusion
Asians, Jews, Italians, Irish -- just off the top of my head -- have succeeded in America despite oppression and institutional biases against them. It's a work in progress, but I tend to believe we'll find that Hispanics are on a similar upward trajectory despite prejudices and institutional biases against them. Same with African immigrants.

I think the primary demographic that's not succeeding and is not on an upward trajectory are natural born Black citizens. I think they face prejudices and institutional biases that are more firmly entrenched against them than any other group. And I think there are internal cultural factors (created in part by historical discrimination) that also work to undermine the success of the demographic.

And, I think DE&I avoids coming at these issues directly, in part, due to political considerations. Perhaps if they can unite all non-whites against whites, they can obtain the political power they think they need to help Black people specifically.

Anonymous
Post 09/12/2021 13:33     Subject: Diversity Equity and Inclusion
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I don't get all of this generalizing about why asians "succeed" while other racial groups don't.

Can't we just do stuff that reduces things that clearly hurt some groups more than others (e.g. inequality in education), without forcing everyone to read Ibram Kendi and Robin DiAngelo?


Because assigning people to groups is what modern DE&I is all about.



My theory is that the GOP successfully used race as a divisive issue to win elections during the 1970s, 1980s, and part of the 1990s. This strategy rallied their base and they were able to somewhat contain the racist part of the party.... until Trump.

The Dems needed some hot button issue to rally their base and leaned into the identity politics stuff, focusing on DE&I. It gets people out to the polls, especially when it's "us" versus "white supremacy." If the GOP can get their racist part of the base under control, the Dem's won't have a white supremacist boogeyman, and will start losing elections.
Anonymous
Post 09/12/2021 13:09     Subject: Diversity Equity and Inclusion
Anonymous wrote:I don't get all of this generalizing about why asians "succeed" while other racial groups don't.

Can't we just do stuff that reduces things that clearly hurt some groups more than others (e.g. inequality in education), without forcing everyone to read Ibram Kendi and Robin DiAngelo?


Because assigning people to groups is what modern DE&I is all about.

Anonymous
Post 09/12/2021 12:58     Subject: Diversity Equity and Inclusion
Anonymous wrote:I don't get all of this generalizing about why asians "succeed" while other racial groups don't.

Can't we just do stuff that reduces things that clearly hurt some groups more than others (e.g. inequality in education), without forcing everyone to read Ibram Kendi and Robin DiAngelo?


I think the success of Asians is precisely the point that the "systemic and institutional racism for benefit of whites" made by Kendi and DiAngelo are demonstrably false. Clearly, Asians are not white, not by skin tone, and certainly not by cultural background. Asians also don't succeed at everything, just some things - though the areas of success they are well known for are viewed as a privilege enjoyed by the oppressor class.
Anonymous
Post 09/12/2021 11:09     Subject: Diversity Equity and Inclusion
I don't get all of this generalizing about why asians "succeed" while other racial groups don't.

Can't we just do stuff that reduces things that clearly hurt some groups more than others (e.g. inequality in education), without forcing everyone to read Ibram Kendi and Robin DiAngelo?
Anonymous
Post 09/12/2021 11:03     Subject: Diversity Equity and Inclusion
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
The entire woke movement is solely about the failures of a certain racial demographic.


Is it your contention that, if black American culture was more apt to celebrate the value of education and hard work, that demographic would be more likely to experience economic improvement? Historically, for blacks in America, this doesn't seem to have been the case. Maybe it would be different this time around, but I think the "woke" movement is trying to explain and fix some of the disparities Black people have experienced -- whereby education and hard work has not historically resulted in them prospering in the same way other demographics have done with similar levels of effort.


This is the very speculative issue. And it is why it is also a very contentious issue. Are these assumptions valid?

We are, of course, speaking as a cohort, not individuals. There are very successful and hard working people of all races, and lazy and dull people of all races. But as a cohort, are people's outcomes in society predetermined by race, or by other factors? Some people want to insist yes, others do not agree. There is enough ammunition for both sides to keep the argument alive.

However, the current "woke" strategy does seem to be based on dumbing down curriculums and removing advanced programs and examinations, and lowering standards across the board in the name of equity and social justice. To me that seems counterproductive and will result in long term harm on the greater society. All these mocking and derision of hard work and a strong work ethic as "white people stuff" is not only highly ignorant but not helpful either, as you will absolutely need to work hard to do well in life.




The problem the woke have is that with actual institutional racism extinct in the US they are left with few excuses to avoid discussing culture, and any discussion of culture will inevitably lead to discussion of personal responsibility, which is anathema to them.

In the woke worldview there is no meritocracy. People succeed or fail based on their identity. People who make bad decisions (unless they are white) do so because of oppression. If you work hard and succeed you were either privileged (white) or a miserable robot who does nothing but work (Asian).

Instead of addressing the problem, they are trying to pull the successful down. They are working to eliminate advanced courses and attacking students who study for working too hard. They seek to decree the racial makeup of desirable jobs based on simplistic ideas of what the "right" ratio must be.

Anonymous
Post 09/12/2021 10:40     Subject: Diversity Equity and Inclusion
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
The entire woke movement is solely about the failures of a certain racial demographic.


Is it your contention that, if black American culture was more apt to celebrate the value of education and hard work, that demographic would be more likely to experience economic improvement? Historically, for blacks in America, this doesn't seem to have been the case. Maybe it would be different this time around, but I think the "woke" movement is trying to explain and fix some of the disparities Black people have experienced -- whereby education and hard work has not historically resulted in them prospering in the same way other demographics have done with similar levels of effort.


This is the very speculative issue. And it is why it is also a very contentious issue. Are these assumptions valid?

We are, of course, speaking as a cohort, not individuals. There are very successful and hard working people of all races, and lazy and dull people of all races. But as a cohort, are people's outcomes in society predetermined by race, or by other factors? Some people want to insist yes, others do not agree. There is enough ammunition for both sides to keep the argument alive.

However, the current "woke" strategy does seem to be based on dumbing down curriculums and removing advanced programs and examinations, and lowering standards across the board in the name of equity and social justice. To me that seems counterproductive and will result in long term harm on the greater society. All these mocking and derision of hard work and a strong work ethic as "white people stuff" is not only highly ignorant but not helpful either, as you will absolutely need to work hard to do well in life.

Anonymous
Post 09/12/2021 10:36     Subject: Diversity Equity and Inclusion
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Americans have this Puritan "no pain, no gain" mentality. Suffering is celebrated. Joy and leisure are objects of skepticism and scorn. Learning by playing is positively frivolous. The world is a testing ground for the faithful. If you're not miserable, you're either in league with the Devil or you're soon to get your come uppance from God.


Neat story, why did you post it here though?


Keep thinking. You'll get it.


Because Asians are puritans?
Anonymous
Post 09/12/2021 10:33     Subject: Diversity Equity and Inclusion
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Americans have this Puritan "no pain, no gain" mentality. Suffering is celebrated. Joy and leisure are objects of skepticism and scorn. Learning by playing is positively frivolous. The world is a testing ground for the faithful. If you're not miserable, you're either in league with the Devil or you're soon to get your come uppance from God.


Neat story, why did you post it here though?


Keep thinking. You'll get it.


PP is like one of those students who immediately declares "I don't get it" after a teacher says something to the class without trying to figure out, let alone articulate, what it is they don't get.
Anonymous
Post 09/12/2021 10:29     Subject: Diversity Equity and Inclusion
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:You have to balance the modest gains from homework against the opportunity costs.


You mean less time watching Netflix?



Maybe. If that's what your kids do. My kids end up being pretty creative when given downtime. Like teaching themselves how to install and tweak a Minecraft server that they then build up with their friends, collaborating on Discord.



Oh, so video games, cool.


You do realize that playing is a method for learning, right?