Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s telling that the OP won’t address her actual question, which was whether or not this would hurt her sister’s feelings. So what was your real purpose for starting this thread, OP?

How have I not addressed it? Are you asking me if I'd be hurt? No, I wouldn't. Are you asking me if I think my sister will be hurt? Yes, I sort of assume she will, she can be pretty fragile. So, I'm trying to gage whether those feelings are reasonable, and whether they are a reason to change my plans. But I'm not going to change them by inviting this sister, or by hiding the trip from her. I might change them by changing how I explain my choice, or I might change them by not inviting my youngest sister. I have not yet decided.

Plenty of people said yes, they would be hurt, but that’s irrelevant. If you think your sister is a fragile, unreasonable person, then you’ve made up your mind. Do what you want. You have two other sisters on your side so what do you have to worry about? Fragile sister can get with the program or be sad and fragile on her own time. Nothing you need to trouble yourself with.

Irrelevant to what. I can't even tell what you're judging me for in this post. For not inviting this sister? For also considering the feelings of my other sister? For asking the question?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here,

You all have convinced me this is a no go, but for some reason I still feel compelled to come back and explain, because as usual DCUM makes a lot of assumptions that aren't true.

I'm not the oldest, and she's not the youngest, we're the two middle kids. So, the dynamic that person is imaging doesn't apply here.

There's also not a dynamic where she helped me with little kids and now I don't help her. For one thing, it just didn't happen that way. My kids are close in age, and when they were little she lived across the country. Her oldest and my younger kid are a few weeks apart, so there just wasn't much time together when I had little kids and she didn't. Since then, she's had 3 more kids and moved close, so I've had lots of opportunities to help her out. Which is fine, that's just the way things happened not a complaint. Now family dynamic is such that we help each other out, and as the person with the younger kids she gets lots of help. I took her kids to the pool all summer, and taught two of them to swim and one of them to ride a bike, because she was pregnant and uncomfortable, and then nursing a newborn, and her DH was swamped with work. Not a complaint, just saying I help out a lot, and most of the time, I'm happy to do that.

But the result is that she's got young kids who are used to being helped by me, and she's used to getting help from me, and while I'm not complaining about the dynamic, or bothered by the dynamic most of the time, on a ski vacation it's going to get challenging to change that dynamic.

She does have a husband. A great guy, involved parent, and lousy skier. But they have 4 kids, and honestly a 4 year old who has never skied really cramps your style, so her older two are going to be desperate to ski with someone else, and they're not quite ready for the freedom I was imagining my kids and their older cousins having. So somewhere, a third adult or teen would end up involved. Ski vacations with little kids are just different from ski vacations where everyone is a competent skier. I didn't take my own 4 year olds on any ski vacations, because honestly with them along it wouldn't have been enough fun to justify the price tag. In fact, this will be my own kids' first ski trip further than PA, and more than one night, so I kind of want to focus on them.

Covid also makes this more complicated. Even if we have a kid vaccine, we won't have a baby vaccine in December, and she's not going to be willing to use any kind of childcare for the baby because of that. I'd be the same way. And if there's no kid vaccine, and we have no way of knowing that, she's not going to be willing use ski school and risk them bringing it back. And even if she is, I can tell you the dynamic with two same age kids one of whom has to go to ski school, while the other is free to go wherever with his older brother and cousins will be hard. Plus ski school costs a ton of money.

I don't think any of us are minimizing the issues involved, OP, it's just that this is part and parcel of traveling with family. The real question is: why would you think you can escape that? When I want to travel with my parents, I accept that I will tear my hair out because of my mother's irrationalities, and will spend a great deal of time persuading my father to step out of his routine. Yet I do travel with them, because there is some enjoyment to be had, nonetheless.

You were having a little selfish moment there, OP. You can't have it all.

Anonymous wrote:It’s telling that the OP won’t address her actual question, which was whether or not this would hurt her sister’s feelings. So what was your real purpose for starting this thread, OP?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think most of the PPs here can’t afford a ski vacation and are just being mean.

Interesting, I guess I think that many people don't understand saving for years for a vacation that you'll take once.

Kindness is free.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think most of the PPs here can’t afford a ski vacation and are just being mean.

Interesting, I guess I think that many people don't understand saving for years for a vacation that you'll take once.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s telling that the OP won’t address her actual question, which was whether or not this would hurt her sister’s feelings. So what was your real purpose for starting this thread, OP?

How have I not addressed it? Are you asking me if I'd be hurt? No, I wouldn't. Are you asking me if I think my sister will be hurt? Yes, I sort of assume she will, she can be pretty fragile. So, I'm trying to gage whether those feelings are reasonable, and whether they are a reason to change my plans. But I'm not going to change them by inviting this sister, or by hiding the trip from her. I might change them by changing how I explain my choice, or I might change them by not inviting my youngest sister. I have not yet decided.

Plenty of people said yes, they would be hurt, but that’s irrelevant. If you think your sister is a fragile, unreasonable person, then you’ve made up your mind. Do what you want. You have two other sisters on your side so what do you have to worry about? Fragile sister can get with the program or be sad and fragile on her own time. Nothing you need to trouble yourself with.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s telling that the OP won’t address her actual question, which was whether or not this would hurt her sister’s feelings. So what was your real purpose for starting this thread, OP?

How have I not addressed it? Are you asking me if I'd be hurt? No, I wouldn't. Are you asking me if I think my sister will be hurt? Yes, I sort of assume she will, she can be pretty fragile. So, I'm trying to gage whether those feelings are reasonable, and whether they are a reason to change my plans. But I'm not going to change them by inviting this sister, or by hiding the trip from her. I might change them by changing how I explain my choice, or I might change them by not inviting my youngest sister. I have not yet decided.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here,

You all have convinced me this is a no go, but for some reason I still feel compelled to come back and explain, because as usual DCUM makes a lot of assumptions that aren't true.

I'm not the oldest, and she's not the youngest, we're the two middle kids. So, the dynamic that person is imaging doesn't apply here.

There's also not a dynamic where she helped me with little kids and now I don't help her. For one thing, it just didn't happen that way. My kids are close in age, and when they were little she lived across the country. Her oldest and my younger kid are a few weeks apart, so there just wasn't much time together when I had little kids and she didn't. Since then, she's had 3 more kids and moved close, so I've had lots of opportunities to help her out. Which is fine, that's just the way things happened not a complaint. Now family dynamic is such that we help each other out, and as the person with the younger kids she gets lots of help. I took her kids to the pool all summer, and taught two of them to swim and one of them to ride a bike, because she was pregnant and uncomfortable, and then nursing a newborn, and her DH was swamped with work. Not a complaint, just saying I help out a lot, and most of the time, I'm happy to do that.

But the result is that she's got young kids who are used to being helped by me, and she's used to getting help from me, and while I'm not complaining about the dynamic, or bothered by the dynamic most of the time, on a ski vacation it's going to get challenging to change that dynamic.

She does have a husband. A great guy, involved parent, and lousy skier. But they have 4 kids, and honestly a 4 year old who has never skied really cramps your style, so her older two are going to be desperate to ski with someone else, and they're not quite ready for the freedom I was imagining my kids and their older cousins having. So somewhere, a third adult or teen would end up involved. Ski vacations with little kids are just different from ski vacations where everyone is a competent skier. I didn't take my own 4 year olds on any ski vacations, because honestly with them along it wouldn't have been enough fun to justify the price tag. In fact, this will be my own kids' first ski trip further than PA, and more than one night, so I kind of want to focus on them.

Covid also makes this more complicated. Even if we have a kid vaccine, we won't have a baby vaccine in December, and she's not going to be willing to use any kind of childcare for the baby because of that. I'd be the same way. And if there's no kid vaccine, and we have no way of knowing that, she's not going to be willing use ski school and risk them bringing it back. And even if she is, I can tell you the dynamic with two same age kids one of whom has to go to ski school, while the other is free to go wherever with his older brother and cousins will be hard. Plus ski school costs a ton of money.

I don't think any of us are minimizing the issues involved, OP, it's just that this is part and parcel of traveling with family. The real question is: why would you think you can escape that? When I want to travel with my parents, I accept that I will tear my hair out because of my mother's irrationalities, and will spend a great deal of time persuading my father to step out of his routine. Yet I do travel with them, because there is some enjoyment to be had, nonetheless.

You were having a little selfish moment there, OP. You can't have it all.

Anonymous wrote:It’s telling that the OP won’t address her actual question, which was whether or not this would hurt her sister’s feelings. So what was your real purpose for starting this thread, OP?

Anonymous wrote:OP here,

You all have convinced me this is a no go, but for some reason I still feel compelled to come back and explain, because as usual DCUM makes a lot of assumptions that aren't true.

I'm not the oldest, and she's not the youngest, we're the two middle kids. So, the dynamic that person is imaging doesn't apply here.

There's also not a dynamic where she helped me with little kids and now I don't help her. For one thing, it just didn't happen that way. My kids are close in age, and when they were little she lived across the country. Her oldest and my younger kid are a few weeks apart, so there just wasn't much time together when I had little kids and she didn't. Since then, she's had 3 more kids and moved close, so I've had lots of opportunities to help her out. Which is fine, that's just the way things happened not a complaint. Now family dynamic is such that we help each other out, and as the person with the younger kids she gets lots of help. I took her kids to the pool all summer, and taught two of them to swim and one of them to ride a bike, because she was pregnant and uncomfortable, and then nursing a newborn, and her DH was swamped with work. Not a complaint, just saying I help out a lot, and most of the time, I'm happy to do that.

But the result is that she's got young kids who are used to being helped by me, and she's used to getting help from me, and while I'm not complaining about the dynamic, or bothered by the dynamic most of the time, on a ski vacation it's going to get challenging to change that dynamic.

She does have a husband. A great guy, involved parent, and lousy skier. But they have 4 kids, and honestly a 4 year old who has never skied really cramps your style, so her older two are going to be desperate to ski with someone else, and they're not quite ready for the freedom I was imagining my kids and their older cousins having. So somewhere, a third adult or teen would end up involved. Ski vacations with little kids are just different from ski vacations where everyone is a competent skier. I didn't take my own 4 year olds on any ski vacations, because honestly with them along it wouldn't have been enough fun to justify the price tag. In fact, this will be my own kids' first ski trip further than PA, and more than one night, so I kind of want to focus on them.

Covid also makes this more complicated. Even if we have a kid vaccine, we won't have a baby vaccine in December, and she's not going to be willing to use any kind of childcare for the baby because of that. I'd be the same way. And if there's no kid vaccine, and we have no way of knowing that, she's not going to be willing use ski school and risk them bringing it back. And even if she is, I can tell you the dynamic with two same age kids one of whom has to go to ski school, while the other is free to go wherever with his older brother and cousins will be hard. Plus ski school costs a ton of money.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I hate when families feel like they have to cater to the lowest common denominator in a family. Always having to attach themselves to the weakest link.
I wouldn't want to go on a beach vacation with that sister if I was expected to help watch her for young kids. My kids are old enough to enjoy the beach without drowning and are wonderful swimmers I don't want to have to run around looking after a four-year-old all day it's not even mine. That's why when my kids were little we planned vacations that our entire family could enjoy and where I knew I could keep the kids safe. I would never want to go on a vacation where I would need to have everyone else help me care for my own children.
It's one thing if we're all going to a park and invite the cousins along and watch them but it's an entirely different thing to go on a vacation that is geared towards older kids and expect the entire family to watch your toddlers.

OP here,

The thing is, I actually really love doing things with her kids. I used to teach preschool, I'd have more kids if I could afford them. Twice, we took beach vacations when this sister had a baby about the same age, I took her toddlers and older kids with my kids to the beach, and loved it. All this summer, whenever I went to the pool or minigolf or whatever, I picked up this sister's kids. I really enjoyed that, because playing minigolf with a 4 and 8 year old is fun. Next summer, we'll probably go to the beach together, and I'll watch her kids some more.

But being stuck on an easy slope, while the slope you came to ski is right there where you can see it, and you can't be with your own children, isn't fun. It's like going to Ruth Chris on New Years Eve. It's an activity that is more fun when little kids aren't there.

You don't need to invite her! The question was, "Would you be hurt?" Most people are saying, "Yeah, I'd be hurt." All this other info is background noise. Do you care if your sister will be hurt, or not? If no, then the three of you go ahead and have fun. If you do care, then don't invite youngest sister.

If you don't care, though, then I'm not sure why you bothered to ask in the first place, unless you just assumed everyone would say, "nah, it's fine!"