Anonymous
Post 03/26/2021 09:56     Subject: I can’t say this to my kid’s face, of course, but...
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:OP, just want to say how sorry I am and empathize with you. I am watching my dtr and her friend group go thru this as well. Kids I’ve known for years, who I would place bets on, kids whose moral fabric I’ve seen tested, kids who support one another, kids who have fantastic stats - most are struggling to get offers they can 1. get really excited for, 2. have the program they want, and 3. are in line with what the family can afford. I’ve never been so vested in what is happening with my kids’ peers. Covid robbed them of a year and a half of their best high school experiences, and now this. They will come thru it, but it is heartbreaking to watch.



This is OP, and thank you. I know this is not about me at all but it is hard watching my son go through it. And definitely he is not an Ivy-or-bust kind of kid. He kept adjusting his expectations as the rejections and waitlists rolled in, until he just got to a place where he couldn't do it anymore, getting validation from only the safety (again it is a true safety for most kids, they have a very high acceptance rate).

I recognize people have so many challenges, too, as does he. He knows there must be kids who have gotten in nowhere. He also feels bad for his friends who were so excited to leave for college last year and ended up spending their first year of college stuck in their old bedrooms. He volunteers for an organization that helps seniors, and he sees how tough it is for them to be alone during the pandemic. But it still hurts him, and hurts me as an extension.

I know all your words of wisdom are right (he will find his people wherever he goes; he will forget about all this one day and be fine; he could always transfer; a waitlist school might come through). It does help to hear what others are going through even through the anonymous board. I did not want to talk about this with other parents because they have their own challenges. My son talks to some of his friends about it. That helps some, at least in terms of distracting and getting him to play games online with them and such. I think mostly it doesn't help too much because he feels they are in a better position. He is the only one of his friend group who has one acceptance.

He gets frustrated and also feels bad that he doesn't even have legacy because one of us went to a non-name small school and the other to a school in a different country. So he hears his friends with double legacy or parents and grandparents and feels like he is at a disadvantage sometimes. He will mature and grow out of this but I understand why this might frustrate him. He is not mean about it to us. He is a sensitive kid but he has mentioned it as maybe that would have helped him get in somewhere other than the safety. He really did not want a small rural school so he didn't apply to the one legacy school.

People asked about major and whether that is the problem. Maybe it is. He said undeclared. He has a strong STEM background but is also very solid in the humanities. He took two languages, though to be honest one is in his parent's native tongue so it wasn't as hard as the other language to learn. He didn't do it to get an easy A, he would like to one day perhaps live abroad. He does not know what he wants to do and we wanted him to do what he wanted and feel like he has to freedom to say he just doesn't know at this point. His counselor said that was okay.

I guess we can go round and round about what went wrong, or what was wrong with his application. We are trying to think ahead and will wait to hear what his counselor says about the waitlist and we will also inquire as to "working it." Between you and me the waitlists do seem like soft rejections and there are so many children on them that it seems unlikely so we don't want to be too enthusiastic about them and get his hopes up just to be disappointed again. We will do whatever we can but at the same time I think he has to be prepared to either take a gap year (which he doesn't seem too interested in) or just come to terms with going to the safety and learning to be okay with it.

Someone asked, "didn't he love the safety, kids should be happy with their safeties too." No he did not love this one. His counselor said, "you need another school on your list that we can be pretty certain you will get in for sure. I recommend University X." And he went with it because she recommended it. He picked two safeties he liked but of course the nature of the universe would have him get in only the university he added on at the end.

I don't think he was cocky about getting into schools but more realistic based on his stats and such. The what is realistic in perhaps other years does't seem to be this year. At least for this kid.



OP. Thanks for writing back. I am the one who posted the reddit thread with the private counselor's suggestions (formerly of UofC and somewhere else). Hope it's helpful - I think some of the suggestions might be good ones?
If you feel comfortable, I would also reach out to your head of school - I know quite a few parents who go that route if they need help with the waitlist movement.

Good luck and keep us posted. Rooting for you and your child. What a hard year it has been.
Anonymous
Post 03/26/2021 09:45     Subject: I can’t say this to my kid’s face, of course, but...
My kid has almost the same stats as you and attend a big 5 private. I feel for you OP because I too am afraid that this could happen to my kid. They work so hard and they deserve to at least get in somewhere that would be reflective of their capability. We all know they are not entitled to get in anywhere, but seriously with these stats, they should be able to find a place that is not a safety for everyone. There is something seriously wrong with college admissions.

And your college counselor is a disgrace if she does not do something more than commiserate with your kid. What are we paying for?

Good luck to your kid OP. I really hope that something good turns up for him.
Anonymous
Post 03/26/2021 09:21     Subject: I can’t say this to my kid’s face, of course, but...
Anonymous wrote:OP, just want to say how sorry I am and empathize with you. I am watching my dtr and her friend group go thru this as well. Kids I’ve known for years, who I would place bets on, kids whose moral fabric I’ve seen tested, kids who support one another, kids who have fantastic stats - most are struggling to get offers they can 1. get really excited for, 2. have the program they want, and 3. are in line with what the family can afford. I’ve never been so vested in what is happening with my kids’ peers. Covid robbed them of a year and a half of their best high school experiences, and now this. They will come thru it, but it is heartbreaking to watch.



This is OP, and thank you. I know this is not about me at all but it is hard watching my son go through it. And definitely he is not an Ivy-or-bust kind of kid. He kept adjusting his expectations as the rejections and waitlists rolled in, until he just got to a place where he couldn't do it anymore, getting validation from only the safety (again it is a true safety for most kids, they have a very high acceptance rate).

I recognize people have so many challenges, too, as does he. He knows there must be kids who have gotten in nowhere. He also feels bad for his friends who were so excited to leave for college last year and ended up spending their first year of college stuck in their old bedrooms. He volunteers for an organization that helps seniors, and he sees how tough it is for them to be alone during the pandemic. But it still hurts him, and hurts me as an extension.

I know all your words of wisdom are right (he will find his people wherever he goes; he will forget about all this one day and be fine; he could always transfer; a waitlist school might come through). It does help to hear what others are going through even through the anonymous board. I did not want to talk about this with other parents because they have their own challenges. My son talks to some of his friends about it. That helps some, at least in terms of distracting and getting him to play games online with them and such. I think mostly it doesn't help too much because he feels they are in a better position. He is the only one of his friend group who has one acceptance.

He gets frustrated and also feels bad that he doesn't even have legacy because one of us went to a non-name small school and the other to a school in a different country. So he hears his friends with double legacy or parents and grandparents and feels like he is at a disadvantage sometimes. He will mature and grow out of this but I understand why this might frustrate him. He is not mean about it to us. He is a sensitive kid but he has mentioned it as maybe that would have helped him get in somewhere other than the safety. He really did not want a small rural school so he didn't apply to the one legacy school.

People asked about major and whether that is the problem. Maybe it is. He said undeclared. He has a strong STEM background but is also very solid in the humanities. He took two languages, though to be honest one is in his parent's native tongue so it wasn't as hard as the other language to learn. He didn't do it to get an easy A, he would like to one day perhaps live abroad. He does not know what he wants to do and we wanted him to do what he wanted and feel like he has to freedom to say he just doesn't know at this point. His counselor said that was okay.

I guess we can go round and round about what went wrong, or what was wrong with his application. We are trying to think ahead and will wait to hear what his counselor says about the waitlist and we will also inquire as to "working it." Between you and me the waitlists do seem like soft rejections and there are so many children on them that it seems unlikely so we don't want to be too enthusiastic about them and get his hopes up just to be disappointed again. We will do whatever we can but at the same time I think he has to be prepared to either take a gap year (which he doesn't seem too interested in) or just come to terms with going to the safety and learning to be okay with it.

Someone asked, "didn't he love the safety, kids should be happy with their safeties too." No he did not love this one. His counselor said, "you need another school on your list that we can be pretty certain you will get in for sure. I recommend University X." And he went with it because she recommended it. He picked two safeties he liked but of course the nature of the universe would have him get in only the university he added on at the end.

I don't think he was cocky about getting into schools but more realistic based on his stats and such. The what is realistic in perhaps other years does't seem to be this year. At least for this kid.


Anonymous
Post 03/26/2021 09:05     Subject: I can’t say this to my kid’s face, of course, but...
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Could it be that admissions counselors feel that someone with the privileges he has should have no problem getting these grades and scores, and that getting them in that social context is far from the impressive feat that many people assume it must be? The system is set up to reward those with the good fortune like you, me, and our kids to be born into stable families with educated parents and access to great schools and financial stability. Could it be that simply following orders to maintain an extremely comfortable lifestyle is not the key ingredient of success? You have given no hints about the things that motivate your DC and make him unique.


No. Smart is smart.


My brother had lowish high school grades and astoundingly high SAT scores. It reads to admissions folks as "lazy as hell." In my brother's case it was true. Today, you might also assume that someone was prepped a lot to get the high SAT scores. But a 3.6 and high SAT scores reads a bit like "he could have gotten A's but he's kind of lazy." My brother only got into one college, the really expensive one. Good thing my parents made a lot of money. I don't and my kids would have been screwed.


I am the PP who tried to gently point out the entitlement of many of us who will only accept THE BEST of everything for our kids. We really don't like to consider the fact that there are countless kids who have not done as well on paper as our kids because they had the bad luck to be born into far more difficult situations. We don't believe our kids should ever have to face any adversity, however slight or temporary. We tell ourselves and them that no one could ever be as smart, industrious, or talented as they have been from their perfect births, and that they therefore are destined to rule the world. Anyone less privileged is not worthy of our notice. It does not matter that OP's kids, like my own, will almost certainly, regardless of whatever college they attend, never know a day of hunger or true hopelessness. Well, I've said my piece. Let us all return to the collective wringing of hands and gnashing of teeth.
Anonymous
Post 03/26/2021 08:54     Subject: I can’t say this to my kid’s face, of course, but...
I'm wondering if the Ivy or bust type posters are from the U.S.? Education here truly is not a merit-ranked proposition. This mentality is poisoning our kids.

Look at actually successful people in all kinds of fields across the country and where they went to school. You will find a huge range of colleges.
Anonymous
Post 03/26/2021 08:52     Subject: Re:I can’t say this to my kid’s face, of course, but...
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:"Demonstrating commitment" is total BS. Even a job does not require this and it provides a livelihood. The college admission is racketeering.


Guys, you are all understandably frustrated and embittered, but using hyperbole like "racketeering" is not helpful and also untrue. The colleges are doing their best in a difficult situation. And let's face it, for the most part we are speaking of 50-100 of the 3,000 colleges in the US, so maybe that is the issue?

I will simply ask this: what could the colleges do that would make it better for everyone?


Use their funding streams to massively increase capacity instead of installing gold-plated swimming pools?


See, this is exactly what I am talking about. Pejorative hyperbole without any facts. “Massively increase capacity” like all that takes is diverting the cost of a “gold-plated swimming pool” to a different budget line. Total nonsense.

How about a practical, adult conversation, with practical, adult suggestions?


Ok. Practically, adultly massively increase capacity? Seriously - there is no reason why "elite" institutions should accept so few candidates. They clearly get more applicants who meet their standards than they can accept. There's no reason to assume that accepting more students would drive down the quality of education they can provide, and the cost per student would go down.


Pick a college and describe me the steps for increasing capacity. Be specific.

Please note plenty of selected colleges have done this recently, most notably Yale. It’s not easy to do. Any time you increase a giant infrastructure it puts pressure on every aspect of it. Dorms, dining halls, classrooms, network capacity, parking, ...it ain’t just “let another 5,000 kids attend!”

And also, fort the record, many of these colleges have increased limitlessly by putting courseware online for free. But you don’t want that. You want the elite sheepskin and you want them to expand just enough to let in your kid then stop so the elite ness is not diluted any further. It’s total hypocrisy.
Anonymous
Post 03/26/2021 08:51     Subject: I can’t say this to my kid’s face, of course, but...
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:This is OP. DS did the virtual tours and meetings and such. We did not travel during the pandemic. He is at a Big 3 or 5 depending on your definition.

He emailed his counselor to talk about next steps. She said, quote, "this year has been shocking" and they have an appointment to meet. I guess they will talk about waitlists and maybe she will try to help him to have a different perspective. She did say, "this is great for the schools that normally wouldn't get a stellar student like you."

That did NOT make him feel better. He did talk to his friends and I heard him laughing so something they said helped.


I’d be pretty annoyed at the counselor. That statement she made was not helpful. We are a public school family so I’m not expecting the assistance, but for what you pay at a big 5, that counselor needs to be trying to help him with one of his waitlist schools.

I think the extent to which you should just accept the situation depends on what school he got accepted to - if it’s a well regarded big state school I would say go and make the best of it - if it’s Radford or ODU or something (and I’m not even knocking those schools but for a kid with OP’s stats he should be elsewhere).


I am this PP and I’ll add that I didn’t feel bad for the kid in the other thread that “only” got into Grinnell and W&M honors. I feel badly for this kid who has clearly worked really hard and hasn’t gotten into schools I think he would have reasonably thought he might get into like UVM and Northeastern. It’s not like he went HYP or bust.
Anonymous
Post 03/26/2021 08:50     Subject: I can’t say this to my kid’s face, of course, but...
OP, My experience: I have two in college - a sophomore and a senior. Both went to competitive privates. One very high stats, the other a recruited athlete. Both chose large state schools that are "likelys" for most students. (Not doing their sport). They are happy and getting a good education at a fraction of the price. No one in my peer group is "impressed" and I couldn't care less. I have to confess that I do drop that son turned down a top 10 school only if someone is being obnoxious
We just need to move far away from the prestige factor.
Anonymous
Post 03/26/2021 08:50     Subject: I can’t say this to my kid’s face, of course, but...
Anonymous wrote:It would change the character and quality of the education. Not everyone wants to go to a University with 28,000 undergraduates. And last time I checked, there was no right to an Ivy education. HPY could fill their incoming classes with valedictorians, twice over. Any mindset that equates hard work with entitlement to admission is warped on the front end.


+1 It would just make the so-called "elite" the same as your flagship state school.
Anonymous
Post 03/26/2021 08:47     Subject: I can’t say this to my kid’s face, of course, but...
It would change the character and quality of the education. Not everyone wants to go to a University with 28,000 undergraduates. And last time I checked, there was no right to an Ivy education. HPY could fill their incoming classes with valedictorians, twice over. Any mindset that equates hard work with entitlement to admission is warped on the front end.
Anonymous
Post 03/26/2021 08:46     Subject: I can’t say this to my kid’s face, of course, but...
Anonymous wrote:This is OP. DS did the virtual tours and meetings and such. We did not travel during the pandemic. He is at a Big 3 or 5 depending on your definition.

He emailed his counselor to talk about next steps. She said, quote, "this year has been shocking" and they have an appointment to meet. I guess they will talk about waitlists and maybe she will try to help him to have a different perspective. She did say, "this is great for the schools that normally wouldn't get a stellar student like you."

That did NOT make him feel better. He did talk to his friends and I heard him laughing so something they said helped.


I’d be pretty annoyed at the counselor. That statement she made was not helpful. We are a public school family so I’m not expecting the assistance, but for what you pay at a big 5, that counselor needs to be trying to help him with one of his waitlist schools.

I think the extent to which you should just accept the situation depends on what school he got accepted to - if it’s a well regarded big state school I would say go and make the best of it - if it’s Radford or ODU or something (and I’m not even knocking those schools but for a kid with OP’s stats he should be elsewhere).
Anonymous
Post 03/26/2021 08:43     Subject: Re:I can’t say this to my kid’s face, of course, but...
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:"Demonstrating commitment" is total BS. Even a job does not require this and it provides a livelihood. The college admission is racketeering.


Guys, you are all understandably frustrated and embittered, but using hyperbole like "racketeering" is not helpful and also untrue. The colleges are doing their best in a difficult situation. And let's face it, for the most part we are speaking of 50-100 of the 3,000 colleges in the US, so maybe that is the issue?

I will simply ask this: what could the colleges do that would make it better for everyone?


Use their funding streams to massively increase capacity instead of installing gold-plated swimming pools?


See, this is exactly what I am talking about. Pejorative hyperbole without any facts. “Massively increase capacity” like all that takes is diverting the cost of a “gold-plated swimming pool” to a different budget line. Total nonsense.

How about a practical, adult conversation, with practical, adult suggestions?


Ok. Practically, adultly massively increase capacity? Seriously - there is no reason why "elite" institutions should accept so few candidates. They clearly get more applicants who meet their standards than they can accept. There's no reason to assume that accepting more students would drive down the quality of education they can provide, and the cost per student would go down.
Anonymous
Post 03/26/2021 08:33     Subject: Re:I can’t say this to my kid’s face, of course, but...
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:"Demonstrating commitment" is total BS. Even a job does not require this and it provides a livelihood. The college admission is racketeering.


Guys, you are all understandably frustrated and embittered, but using hyperbole like "racketeering" is not helpful and also untrue. The colleges are doing their best in a difficult situation. And let's face it, for the most part we are speaking of 50-100 of the 3,000 colleges in the US, so maybe that is the issue?

I will simply ask this: what could the colleges do that would make it better for everyone?


Use their funding streams to massively increase capacity instead of installing gold-plated swimming pools?


See, this is exactly what I am talking about. Pejorative hyperbole without any facts. “Massively increase capacity” like all that takes is diverting the cost of a “gold-plated swimming pool” to a different budget line. Total nonsense.

How about a practical, adult conversation, with practical, adult suggestions?
Anonymous
Post 03/26/2021 08:00     Subject: Re:I can’t say this to my kid’s face, of course, but...
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:"Demonstrating commitment" is total BS. Even a job does not require this and it provides a livelihood. The college admission is racketeering.


Guys, you are all understandably frustrated and embittered, but using hyperbole like "racketeering" is not helpful and also untrue. The colleges are doing their best in a difficult situation. And let's face it, for the most part we are speaking of 50-100 of the 3,000 colleges in the US, so maybe that is the issue?

I will simply ask this: what could the colleges do that would make it better for everyone?


Use their funding streams to massively increase capacity instead of installing gold-plated swimming pools?
Anonymous
Post 03/26/2021 08:00     Subject: I can’t say this to my kid’s face, of course, but...
Feel bad but don’t disparage others.

I’m sorry your kid didn’t get what he wanted.