If you wonder whether white Jews identify as white, try being a Jew of Color going to most (predominately white) Jewish spaces and synagogues. Every Jew of Color I know has experienced racism in white Jewish spaces- some have even said the worst racism they have experienced is in such spaces. It is just mind-boggling that white Jews deny their whiteness.
Again, this does not diminish the antisemitism that Jews experience. And, it is also true that white supremacists target racial minorities and Jews (of any color) and Muslims. But it does not mean that (white) Jews are *not white*.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm still not clear on what OP is looking for.

Are people who comit antisemitic crimes not being held accountable?

It’s not about that. Also not hard to understand: OP is presumably white (note - there are African Jews, though very few live in America).

OP seeks to be an ally. But she benefits from white privilege and affluence. So it’s difficult to truly accept her as a real ally; she has never experienced racial oppression like the POC/BIPOC.

Stop. There are Jews of Color in the US- estimated to be 12% of the Jewish population.

https://jewsofcolorfieldbuilding.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/Counting-Inconsistencies-052119.pdf

Wait - so you’re saying 88% of Jewish people in the US benefit from white privilege?

Uh, yes if they identify as white? Of course, they still experience anti-semitism based on their religion but they benefit from being white.

My white Jewish husband absolutely agrees he benefits from white male privilege.

I think this episode of the Slate Political Gabfest has some useful insight into this conversation, in the interview with writer Claire Jean Kim (starts around the 25 minute mark, 26 minutes if you want to skip the preamble from the host):

https://slate.com/podcasts/political-gabfest/2021/03/amazon-regional-economic-disparity-in-the-u-s-political-gabfest

I would encourage OP and others to listen because I think it offers some useful perspective, but the aspect that I think is missing from the conversation in this thread is the following. To make this more simple, I'm just talking about non-black (and non-Asian) Jews below, even though you'd obviously need to get into the intersectionalism at some point. But to introduce the idea:

Kim talks about how anti-Asian racism (which is her area of focus) needs to be placed in context alongside the concept of anti-blackness, not just white supremacy. Her theory is that while white supremacy oppresses all non-white groups (including Jews, who have long been and still are targets of white supremacy), there is also a strain of white supremacy -- anti-blackness -- which can be used to elevate other groups in order to further oppress black people.

So in Kim's theory, sometimes Asian people are oppressed by white supremacy, but other times they are used by anti-blackness in order to oppress black people. It's a way of discussing prejudice that is more nuanced than trying to create a hierarchy of who has it worse, and I find it really useful in thinking about how these different identities operate under as systematic of white supremacy.

To bring it back to this conversation, I think it could be enlightening on this question of whether Jews have white privilege. Because it's less a question of whether Jews are oppressed by white supremacy (there is no doubt they are) or even whether they are seen as "other" (again, it's clear that white supremacists see Jews as other). But Jews are also definitely seen as more white than other groups, especially black people. So it's possible to say that Jews benefit from white privilege because they are privileged by their relative whiteness. This is not the same as saying that Jews are themselves an oppressive force, or saying that anti-semitism doesn't exist. That would be absurd. But it would also be absurd to say that Jews don't have any white privilege, even if that privilege is bestowed on them (and can be taken away) by the very white supremacy that oppresses them.

So yes, it's complicated. That sucks. But that's also why it's important to be really thoughtful about these issues and to dig deeper. I'm a white woman and I absolutely have white privilege and that privilege is very tied up in my femaleness, for which I am also oppressed. I grapple with this stuff daily and I don't have answers. But I can't deny my privilege anymore than I can deny my oppression, and I have to recognize the way that sometimes they are one and the same (white women are often used as pawns of white supremacy in ways that can individually benefit us a lot).

After the George Floyd shooting, our Jewish CEO sent a note around stating that he doesn't condone looting and rioting. He said that he supports the police because they are brave and heroes. He said that his grandfather was also persecuted (like slavery) and fled Germany and settled in New England and opened a store that is still thriving to this day.

How's that for inclusion?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People who hate Jews can tell that Jews with white skin are Jewish. I'm white, I don't have a Jewish surname, I'm completely non-practicing, I don't live in a Jewish neighborhood and I don't really have any Jewish friends. I've still been targeted by white supremacists. Jews are an ethnic group in addition to a religious one, and people can tell if they want to. If you believe that white Jews can hide, congratulations, you're probably not a racist. But believe me, white supremacists know. Spend some time on a white supremacist website some time if you don't believe me.
(For the record, I can tell that white Jews are Jews on sight too).

You sound really paranoid. I’m glad you and the white supremacists have that superpower. My husband is Jewish with a common German surname. Many Jews have not been able to tell he is Jewish even after talking to him.

I'm not paranoid. I have studied white supremacist groups.

I’m a white, foreign, short-sighted, somewhat educated, athletically challenged, non-religious, not very affluent child of an alcoholic non-English-speaking refugee. Can someone please let me know how my privilege scorecard balances out?

My point is that some of this starts to get nonsensical. You’re putting people in boxes. Privilege is a real concept, is context-specific and is particularly useful in understanding and redressing systemic inequities. But some of this conversation seems either like finger pointing at others who seem to enjoy some advantage, or ignores nuance. My father was the victim of racism and was also very racist himself. You can both have advantage and not have advantage which is confusing and fairly meaningless. It’s only meaningful when you use it in context.

Anonymous wrote:People who hate Jews can tell that Jews with white skin are Jewish. I'm white, I don't have a Jewish surname, I'm completely non-practicing, I don't live in a Jewish neighborhood and I don't really have any Jewish friends. I've still been targeted by white supremacists. Jews are an ethnic group in addition to a religious one, and people can tell if they want to. If you believe that white Jews can hide, congratulations, you're probably not a racist. But believe me, white supremacists know. Spend some time on a white supremacist website some time if you don't believe me.
(For the record, I can tell that white Jews are Jews on sight too).

You sound really paranoid. I’m glad you and the white supremacists have that superpower. My husband is Jewish with a common German surname. Many Jews have not been able to tell he is Jewish even after talking to him.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All minorities in America have lived lives whee they were very deprived and oppressed. It’s unbelievably racist here, and getting worse every day.

America is like one bike open air prison, when minorities suffer under constant oppression and can barely even survive, day to day.

Now that's a winning attitude!

Have you considered moving?

And look how fast the racism jumped out! Why should I move from my own home? How about people like you change or move yourself?

People who hate Jews can tell that Jews with white skin are Jewish. I'm white, I don't have a Jewish surname, I'm completely non-practicing, I don't live in a Jewish neighborhood and I don't really have any Jewish friends. I've still been targeted by white supremacists. Jews are an ethnic group in addition to a religious one, and people can tell if they want to. If you believe that white Jews can hide, congratulations, you're probably not a racist. But believe me, white supremacists know. Spend some time on a white supremacist website some time if you don't believe me.
(For the record, I can tell that white Jews are Jews on sight too).

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm still not clear on what OP is looking for.

Are people who comit antisemitic crimes not being held accountable?

It’s not about that. Also not hard to understand: OP is presumably white (note - there are African Jews, though very few live in America).

OP seeks to be an ally. But she benefits from white privilege and affluence. So it’s difficult to truly accept her as a real ally; she has never experienced racial oppression like the POC/BIPOC.

Stop. There are Jews of Color in the US- estimated to be 12% of the Jewish population.

https://jewsofcolorfieldbuilding.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/Counting-Inconsistencies-052119.pdf

Wait - so you’re saying 88% of Jewish people in the US benefit from white privilege?

This is the shallowest interpretation of diversity ever.

Listen. If you're black and Christian, you don't have white privilege, but you do have Christian privilege. Jews have white privilege but don't have Christian privilege. If you think the only kind of privilege is white privilege then your view of the world is pretty simplistic. People who are able-bodied have privilege; people who are straight have privilege; people who are affluent have privilege. It shouldn't break anyone's brain to says that diversity, equity, and inclusion should include all of those who are marginalized, not just those who lack white privilege.

The importance here is:

- we need to segregate people by race, religion, and affluence.

How can we make any progress on ending racism/discrimination if we cannot firmly segregate?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm still not clear on what OP is looking for.

Are people who comit antisemitic crimes not being held accountable?

It’s not about that. Also not hard to understand: OP is presumably white (note - there are African Jews, though very few live in America).

OP seeks to be an ally. But she benefits from white privilege and affluence. So it’s difficult to truly accept her as a real ally; she has never experienced racial oppression like the POC/BIPOC.

Stop. There are Jews of Color in the US- estimated to be 12% of the Jewish population.

https://jewsofcolorfieldbuilding.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/Counting-Inconsistencies-052119.pdf

Wait - so you’re saying 88% of Jewish people in the US benefit from white privilege?

This is the shallowest interpretation of diversity ever.

Listen. If you're black and Christian, you don't have white privilege, but you do have Christian privilege. Jews have white privilege but don't have Christian privilege. If you think the only kind of privilege is white privilege then your view of the world is pretty simplistic. People who are able-bodied have privilege; people who are straight have privilege; people who are affluent have privilege. It shouldn't break anyone's brain to says that diversity, equity, and inclusion should include all of those who are marginalized, not just those who lack white privilege.

Anonymous wrote:Anti-semitism is on the rise in the United States. Many of the very progressive people preaching for social justice are the worst antisemites. They are the ones saying, ÿou can hide that you are Jewish... That is a slap in the face. Why should anyone hide they are Jewish? This reaction, that someone can hide who they are, perpetuates antisemitism and doesn't address the problem. Jews should not have to hide that they are Jewish so that they are treated well. How can people even say this? It is infuriating.

No one has said that anyone SHOULD hide being Jewish.

“Can”and”should” do not mean the same thing.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm still not clear on what OP is looking for.

Are people who comit antisemitic crimes not being held accountable?

It’s not about that. Also not hard to understand: OP is presumably white (note - there are African Jews, though very few live in America).

OP seeks to be an ally. But she benefits from white privilege and affluence. So it’s difficult to truly accept her as a real ally; she has never experienced racial oppression like the POC/BIPOC.

Stop. There are Jews of Color in the US- estimated to be 12% of the Jewish population.

https://jewsofcolorfieldbuilding.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/Counting-Inconsistencies-052119.pdf

Wait - so you’re saying 88% of Jewish people in the US benefit from white privilege?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm still not clear on what OP is looking for.

Are people who comit antisemitic crimes not being held accountable?

It’s not about that. Also not hard to understand: OP is presumably white (note - there are African Jews, though very few live in America).

OP seeks to be an ally. But she benefits from white privilege and affluence. So it’s difficult to truly accept her as a real ally; she has never experienced racial oppression like the POC/BIPOC.

Antisemitism IS racial oppression. No form of oppression is exactly “like” another, but it doesn’t take too much insight to see that antisemitism is a product of white supremacy, just as much as every other form of racial oppression.