Discussing this issue with my 17 year old and she reminded me how she got a class project cancelled in the 4th grade after she loudly announced that Dr Seuss cheated on his wife while she had cancer and she died of a broken heart. I’m not sure what filters the school was using for kids doing online research projects, but that’s the info she found interesting and chose to share.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well, you voted for this type of leadership, OP.

We warned you.

By the way, info/clips of Michelle O and Kamala are circulating. They LOVED Dr. Seuss! Lol!

I love Dr Seuss too. You now he wrote some 60 books right? I don't need to read the old ones with racist imagery. There are plenty of others to read my kids. And so much other literature out there I don't need to be reading only Dr Seuss books.

Why are people so fixated on a few books out of the millions that are out there? Oh I know, because the whole stupid culture war thing is the only topic the right has going for it.

Someone on another thread was arguing about the Nazi rune used as the design of the CPAC stage, saying it was obscure because probably only 1/1000 Americans even knew what it was, so therefore it didn't matter.

Well, I bet fewer than 1/1000 Americans have ever read all 6 of the books the publisher is no longer publishing, or even heard of them. So why are cons so verklempt over obscure books?

You know, I bet most people never noticed all those General Lee statues until the left demanded they be torn down. Why so verklempt over a stupid old statue nobody looks at?

Personally, I don't care either way, but let's stop pretending that there aren't two sides in the culture wars, each with their own concerns

So I noticed. As did my kids. And I protested to make the change because it matters to me. If someone is truly upset about Dr. Seuss’ estate stopping publication on a couple of books, they can 1. Organize a media campaign targeting the estate to bring back these books, 2. Buy the rights to the books and publish them on their own, or 3. Organize some reading event of these books by buying up old copies and distributing.

Both my actions with the General Lee statues and the hypothetical actions of the person angry at the Seuss estate are fine and part of free speech.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ahh, geez. Another thread that makes me fearful for the future of our country when people can’t discern the difference between censorship and the free market. I’m a moderate but I really hate the right at this moment for all their fear-mongering and arm-waving on click Nate topics rather than the important stuff we need to get done.

What is the name for the free market cancelling a beloved cultual icon in accordance with an ideology I don't agree with There is no better word than censoring right now. If the use it enough that way, that becomes the new definition. This happens all the time with other words. Why fight over words? You know what they are talking about.

Ok. So this is your definition of “censoring”. Groups of people and corporations changing what they want to promote is just how the world moves forward. Things aren’t going to stay frozen in the past with the reading lists you grew up with being the only option for your grandchildren. Sometimes you agree with the change. Sometimes you don’t. That’s life.

When Trader Joe's tried to change the name on some of their ethnic foods to something more woke, there was a popular outcry and they reversed it. That's life too. So what's your real problem?

Yeah, that’s life too. That’s just the way the free market works. (I don’t know the incident you are referring to with Trader Joe’s but I am assuming you are representing the facts correctly). I don’t understand that question about “my real problem”.

We all know that's how the free market works. It's foolish to claim the people you disagree don't know something obvious. It's equally foolish to complain about people complaining, vecause they always complain about something, especially nowadays. So what.are you actually complaining about?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ahh, geez. Another thread that makes me fearful for the future of our country when people can’t discern the difference between censorship and the free market. I’m a moderate but I really hate the right at this moment for all their fear-mongering and arm-waving on click Nate topics rather than the important stuff we need to get done.

What is the name for the free market cancelling a beloved cultual icon in accordance with an ideology I don't agree with There is no better word than censoring right now. If the use it enough that way, that becomes the new definition. This happens all the time with other words. Why fight over words? You know what they are talking about.

Ok. So this is your definition of “censoring”. Groups of people and corporations changing what they want to promote is just how the world moves forward. Things aren’t going to stay frozen in the past with the reading lists you grew up with being the only option for your grandchildren. Sometimes you agree with the change. Sometimes you don’t. That’s life.

When Trader Joe's tried to change the name on some of their ethnic foods to something more woke, there was a popular outcry and they reversed it. That's life too. So what's your real problem?

Yeah, that’s life too. That’s just the way the free market works. (I don’t know the incident you are referring to with Trader Joe’s but I am assuming you are representing the facts correctly). I don’t understand that question about “my real problem”.

I love coming into DCUM and finding threads like this. When Trumpers have to resort to complaining about a decision to no longer publish a handful of Dr. Seuss books, most likely everything’s going pretty well in the world.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well, you voted for this type of leadership, OP.

We warned you.

By the way, info/clips of Michelle O and Kamala are circulating. They LOVED Dr. Seuss! Lol!

I love Dr Seuss too. You now he wrote some 60 books right? I don't need to read the old ones with racist imagery. There are plenty of others to read my kids. And so much other literature out there I don't need to be reading only Dr Seuss books.

Why are people so fixated on a few books out of the millions that are out there? Oh I know, because the whole stupid culture war thing is the only topic the right has going for it.

Someone on another thread was arguing about the Nazi rune used as the design of the CPAC stage, saying it was obscure because probably only 1/1000 Americans even knew what it was, so therefore it didn't matter.

Well, I bet fewer than 1/1000 Americans have ever read all 6 of the books the publisher is no longer publishing, or even heard of them. So why are cons so verklempt over obscure books?

Because they based their decision on a ridiculous study published in the journal "Research on Diversity in Youth Literature." ( Yes, really)

https://www.cnn.com/2021/03/02/us/dr-seuss-books-cease-publication-trnd/index.html


"That study, published in 2019, examined 50 books by Dr. Seuss and found 43 out of the 45 characters of color have "characteristics aligning with the definition of Orientalism," or the stereotypical, offensive portrayal of Asia. The two "African" characters, the study says, both have anti-Black characteristics."

"In ("The Cat's Quizzer"), the Japanese character is referred to as 'a Japanese,' has a bright yellow face, and is standing on what appears to be Mt. Fuji," the authors wrote.
Regarding "If I Ran the Zoo," the study points out another example of Orientalism and White supremacy.
"The three (and only three) Asian characters who are not wearing conical hats are carrying a White male on their heads in 'If I Ran the Zoo.' The White male is not only on top of, and being carried by, these Asian characters, but he is also holding a gun, illustrating dominance. The text beneath the Asian characters describes them as 'helpers who all wear their eyes at a slant' from 'countries no one can spell,'" the study authors wrote.

The study also argues that since the majority of human characters in Dr. Seuss' books are White, his works -- inadvertently or not -- center Whiteness and thus perpetuate White supremacy.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well, you voted for this type of leadership, OP.

We warned you.

By the way, info/clips of Michelle O and Kamala are circulating. They LOVED Dr. Seuss! Lol!

I love Dr Seuss too. You now he wrote some 60 books right? I don't need to read the old ones with racist imagery. There are plenty of others to read my kids. And so much other literature out there I don't need to be reading only Dr Seuss books.

Why are people so fixated on a few books out of the millions that are out there? Oh I know, because the whole stupid culture war thing is the only topic the right has going for it.

Someone on another thread was arguing about the Nazi rune used as the design of the CPAC stage, saying it was obscure because probably only 1/1000 Americans even knew what it was, so therefore it didn't matter.

Well, I bet fewer than 1/1000 Americans have ever read all 6 of the books the publisher is no longer publishing, or even heard of them. So why are cons so verklempt over obscure books?

You know, I bet most people never noticed all those General Lee statues until the left demanded they be torn down. Why so verklempt over a stupid old statue nobody looks at?

Personally, I don't care either way, but let's stop pretending that there aren't two sides in the culture wars, each with their own concerns

Anonymous wrote:Well, you voted for this type of leadership, OP.

We warned you.

By the way, info/clips of Michelle O and Kamala are circulating. They LOVED Dr. Seuss! Lol!

I love Dr Seuss too. You now he wrote some 60 books right? I don't need to read the old ones with racist imagery. There are plenty of others to read my kids. And so much other literature out there I don't need to be reading only Dr Seuss books.

Why are people so fixated on a few books out of the millions that are out there? Oh I know, because the whole stupid culture war thing is the only topic the right has going for it.

Someone on another thread was arguing about the Nazi rune used as the design of the CPAC stage, saying it was obscure because probably only 1/1000 Americans even knew what it was, so therefore it didn't matter.

Well, I bet fewer than 1/1000 Americans have ever read all 6 of the books the publisher is no longer publishing, or even heard of them. So why are cons so verklempt over obscure books?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ahh, geez. Another thread that makes me fearful for the future of our country when people can’t discern the difference between censorship and the free market. I’m a moderate but I really hate the right at this moment for all their fear-mongering and arm-waving on click Nate topics rather than the important stuff we need to get done.

What is the name for the free market cancelling a beloved cultual icon in accordance with an ideology I don't agree with There is no better word than censoring right now. If the use it enough that way, that becomes the new definition. This happens all the time with other words. Why fight over words? You know what they are talking about.

Ok. So this is your definition of “censoring”. Groups of people and corporations changing what they want to promote is just how the world moves forward. Things aren’t going to stay frozen in the past with the reading lists you grew up with being the only option for your grandchildren. Sometimes you agree with the change. Sometimes you don’t. That’s life.

When Trader Joe's tried to change the name on some of their ethnic foods to something more woke, there was a popular outcry and they reversed it. That's life too. So what's your real problem?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maybe this whole cancel thing is suffering a backlash.

Thirteen of the top 20 selling books on Amazon today were.......... ALL Dr. Seuss books. And, the top 5 were all Seuss books.

https://variety.com/2021/digital/news/dr-seuss-books-amazon-best-sellers-1234919873/

The point isn't to cancel Dr. Seuss, it's to stop printing children's books with racist caricatures.

Do you think children will be grateful for that later on in life?

Are you sad that you didn't get to read Little Eva: Flower of the South when you were growing up? Did it ruin your life not to have it on your shelf?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ahh, geez. Another thread that makes me fearful for the future of our country when people can’t discern the difference between censorship and the free market. I’m a moderate but I really hate the right at this moment for all their fear-mongering and arm-waving on click Nate topics rather than the important stuff we need to get done.

What is the name for the free market cancelling a beloved cultual icon in accordance with an ideology I don't agree with There is no better word than censoring right now. If the use it enough that way, that becomes the new definition. This happens all the time with other words. Why fight over words? You know what they are talking about.

Ok. So this is your definition of “censoring”. Groups of people and corporations changing what they want to promote is just how the world moves forward. Things aren’t going to stay frozen in the past with the reading lists you grew up with being the only option for your grandchildren. Sometimes you agree with the change. Sometimes you don’t. That’s life.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is sad how much wonderful literature will be cancelled. All because younger generations have not been taught critical thinking skills and because everything has become about feelings, not logic, facts or intellect.

What literature has been cancelled in the United States?

NP. There was a thread a few days/weeks ago asking for book recommendations for an elementary child interested in history. Someone recommended the Little House series but felt the need to spend half of the post apologizing for the offensive content and saying that if you could get past that, they were actually good books. I had to read the post twice to believe it.

I agree with the OP that the censorship and cancelling is out of control.

Isn't that LITERALLY what you are arguing should happen? Someone pointed out that a piece of literature had racist elements but, instead of saying it should be cancelled, recommended it in spite of the offensive content?

And, by the way, that is the reality of the Little House series. I read them with my kids and we had to talk about how Ma is strong and brave and wise and smart and a wonderful mother, and also suuuuuuuuuuuuuuper racist against Native Americans. You do have to deal with the offensive content.

+1
This is what we all agreed, right? If a book is offensive - and these books will live on in existing bookshelves all over the country - we have to talk to our kids about why they’re offensive and why we don’t talk about people like that anymore or depict them that way.

(And shout out to Birchbark House by Louise Erdrich, meant to be sort of a Native perspective story on the era in which LHOTP was set. It’s in a slightly different geographical location, but it’s really, really good. I read both to my son.)

I think the fact that "what we all agreed" turns out ALSO to be "censorship" tells you what you need to know about whether "cancel culture" critics are operating in good faith.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ahh, geez. Another thread that makes me fearful for the future of our country when people can’t discern the difference between censorship and the free market. I’m a moderate but I really hate the right at this moment for all their fear-mongering and arm-waving on click Nate topics rather than the important stuff we need to get done.

What is the name for the free market cancelling a beloved cultual icon in accordance with an ideology I don't agree with There is no better word than censoring right now. If the use it enough that way, that becomes the new definition. This happens all the time with other words. Why fight over words? You know what they are talking about.

He’s cancelled?

Honestly, I wish you wacky conservatives would find a hobby other than enjoying excess cortisol and adrenaline. You are some of the most needlessly amped up aggro people. Just chill. No one’s cancelling Dr. Seuss according to an ideology (and you agree with racism. I guess you guys are finally saying the quiet part out loud.).

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is sad how much wonderful literature will be cancelled. All because younger generations have not been taught critical thinking skills and because everything has become about feelings, not logic, facts or intellect.

What literature has been cancelled in the United States?

NP. There was a thread a few days/weeks ago asking for book recommendations for an elementary child interested in history. Someone recommended the Little House series but felt the need to spend half of the post apologizing for the offensive content and saying that if you could get past that, they were actually good books. I had to read the post twice to believe it.

I agree with the OP that the censorship and cancelling is out of control.

How is your example censoring? Is there some new definition of censoring I am unfamiliar with?

DP. Apparently there is. Censoring now promotes woke culture and like everything else is outsourced to businesses. It might not be the right word, but it's a close enough concept that it's being adopted to describe this.

DP. "Read this, but heads up there's some racist stuff in it" is so far from censorship that it's hard to take you seriously. It doesn't even suggest that you shouldn't read that book! There are books I actively suggest people not read? I guess that's a book burning in your topsy-turvy world.

I'm just saying they are pointing to a cultural change they don't agree with. This is so new, there is no word for it. But you know what they are complaining about anyway.

You don't get to just declare the words mean things other than their agreed upon meaning. Yes, language evolves but not like that.

Yes, I know what they're complaining about, but complaining that someone mentioned racism in a book while also recommending it is such an obviously moronic thing to whine about that PP had to lie and call it censorship to seem like anything other than an absolute loon.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is sad how much wonderful literature will be cancelled. All because younger generations have not been taught critical thinking skills and because everything has become about feelings, not logic, facts or intellect.

What literature has been cancelled in the United States?

NP. There was a thread a few days/weeks ago asking for book recommendations for an elementary child interested in history. Someone recommended the Little House series but felt the need to spend half of the post apologizing for the offensive content and saying that if you could get past that, they were actually good books. I had to read the post twice to believe it.

I agree with the OP that the censorship and cancelling is out of control.

How is your example censoring? Is there some new definition of censoring I am unfamiliar with?

These books are no longer listed on the recommended reading lists. So yes, I call that censorship. There were also yearly awards named after the author that were renamed due to public pressure, which is essentially cancelling her since she's dead for more than half a century and I'm not sure what else they could do to cancel her.

Who makes these recommended reading lists? The government? If so, you can vote out the people making these choices. Although I am fairly confident that any govt recommended reading list is unlikely to have much effect of people’s choices.

If it is a group of consumers that have come together and make recommendations, you can and should come up with other recommended reading lists. And some will even follow your recs.