Anonymous
09/16/2019 17:54
Subject: Study shows that 350k/year is barely scrapping by as middle class
Anonymous wrote:Middle class people do not own $1.8m houses. Nor do they spend $24,000 on preschool. Or $2,000 a month on food.
What a stupid article.
This^
Insulting to the other 90% to claim otherwise, but what do you expect from a website called “marketwatch” when most of us don’t own stocks. Or even have any savings. https://www.cnbc.com/2017/06/19/heres-how-many-americans-have-nothing-at-all-in-savings.html
Anonymous
09/16/2019 10:29
Subject: Study shows that 350k/year is barely scrapping by as middle class
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Both sides debating this are idiotic. Yes, its fun to come up with wacky hypothetical to test principles. But you are all wasting your time. Some rich billionaire has paid alot to incite class warfare and you guys are falling for it.
Here is the truth: Everyone who has to work for a living lives a very, very different lifestyle from those that don't. Some make more and some make less. Maybe some are rich. As long as the capital gains tax rate is less than the maximal income tax rate, and as long as the Warren Buffets of the world pay a lower tax rates than their secretaries, we are all losing.
When a NY City police officer pays a higher tax rate than a hedge fund manager, that's capitalism?
When an NFL owner gets YOU to pay for his stadium, that's capitalism?
Unfortunately, 40% of the country thinks it is.
Stop lying. Earned income is taxed differently than wage income. Do you even know why? My guess is you don’t.
Let me guess, because they're "job creators"? Next time you call 911, ask for a hedge fund manager and see what he can offer.
Mainly because the fund manager income has already been taxed before, the amount he earns now due to investments increasing is taxed at 23.8% which is slightly lower than some of those significantly lower paid professions.
No. You do not understand how the 2 and 20 model works. Carried interest is taxed at a lower rate because it is cap gains.
You are right, a portion of the fund managers income is taxed at ordinary income rates (2% assets under management), and a portion of his income (20% performance bonus on fund growth) is taxed at cap gains rates. The argument is should this performance bonus be treated like a cash bonus would? Or should it be treated like investment growth?
So most hedge fund managers are actually paying significantly more than the 23.8% cap gains rate because much of their compensation comes from the 2%AUM fees however when they manage to cause significant growth in their fund and generate those performance fees their overall tax rate will go down.
Anonymous
09/16/2019 10:28
Subject: Study shows that 350k/year is barely scrapping by as middle class
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Buffett, bezos, & gates, are all self made, not old money. Your conspiracy theory doesn’t hold up well. Money certainly tends to influence power, and corruption always has to be fought against.
Bezos and Gates came from VERY wealthy families.
Gates went to a private school and his father was a University of Washington professor. I doubt he would have fallen on hard times if Microsoft failed.
They weren’t ‘old money’ wealthy which the conspiracy poster argues is running the world. Look a janitor can spend his life saving and rack up a million dollars to donate. Similarly, lottery winners usual blow through millions. It’s is behavior in spending and saving, not conspiring elites, that determines your financial status, for most people born in or who make it to the us. Take a Dave Ramsey course. Learn how to discipline yourself. Stop blaming ‘the system’ or ‘the elites’ or ‘the taxes’ or whatever.
It can both be simultaneously true that individuals can improve their situation and that the system is unfairly tilted to benefit some at the expense of many. Making individual frugal solutions is not a substitute for addressing systemic unfairness. But Bill Gates had good luck in the gene pool for intelligence, good luck in the family pool for resources (albeit not old money) and the family pool for willingness to spend on education, good luck in timing for his particular skillset and enterprise. He also had a lot of individual qualities of discipline, imagination and bravery. That he can *win* tells you nothing about the fairness of the system--you need to look at system level data and policy for that. Yes, each of us can do more for self-discipline--it doesn't mean each of us shouldn't also be calling for more justice in the financial system.
If the system is skewed toward wealthy why aren’t lottery winners set for life and leaving huge estates to descendants? Most end up declaring bankruptcy. Money alone is not the key to unlocking success and freedom.
bill gates was booksmart, disciplined, and had great parents, yes. But he was also small, bullied terribly, and extremely introverted. He didn’t shoot up a high school, instead he founded a company that changed the world. We all have choices.
Anonymous
09/16/2019 09:25
Subject: Study shows that 350k/year is barely scrapping by as middle class
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Both sides debating this are idiotic. Yes, its fun to come up with wacky hypothetical to test principles. But you are all wasting your time. Some rich billionaire has paid alot to incite class warfare and you guys are falling for it.
Here is the truth: Everyone who has to work for a living lives a very, very different lifestyle from those that don't. Some make more and some make less. Maybe some are rich. As long as the capital gains tax rate is less than the maximal income tax rate, and as long as the Warren Buffets of the world pay a lower tax rates than their secretaries, we are all losing.
When a NY City police officer pays a higher tax rate than a hedge fund manager, that's capitalism?
When an NFL owner gets YOU to pay for his stadium, that's capitalism?
Unfortunately, 40% of the country thinks it is.
Stop lying. Earned income is taxed differently than wage income. Do you even know why? My guess is you don’t.
Let me guess, because they're "job creators"? Next time you call 911, ask for a hedge fund manager and see what he can offer.
Mainly because the fund manager income has already been taxed before, the amount he earns now due to investments increasing is taxed at 23.8% which is slightly lower than some of those significantly lower paid professions.
No. You do not understand how the 2 and 20 model works. Carried interest is taxed at a lower rate because it is cap gains.
Anonymous
09/16/2019 09:18
Subject: Study shows that 350k/year is barely scrapping by as middle class
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Buffett, bezos, & gates, are all self made, not old money. Your conspiracy theory doesn’t hold up well. Money certainly tends to influence power, and corruption always has to be fought against.
Bezos and Gates came from VERY wealthy families.
Gates went to a private school and his father was a University of Washington professor. I doubt he would have fallen on hard times if Microsoft failed.
They weren’t ‘old money’ wealthy which the conspiracy poster argues is running the world. Look a janitor can spend his life saving and rack up a million dollars to donate. Similarly, lottery winners usual blow through millions. It’s is behavior in spending and saving, not conspiring elites, that determines your financial status, for most people born in or who make it to the us. Take a Dave Ramsey course. Learn how to discipline yourself. Stop blaming ‘the system’ or ‘the elites’ or ‘the taxes’ or whatever.
It can both be simultaneously true that individuals can improve their situation and that the system is unfairly tilted to benefit some at the expense of many. Making individual frugal solutions is not a substitute for addressing systemic unfairness. But Bill Gates had good luck in the gene pool for intelligence, good luck in the family pool for resources (albeit not old money) and the family pool for willingness to spend on education, good luck in timing for his particular skillset and enterprise. He also had a lot of individual qualities of discipline, imagination and bravery. That he can *win* tells you nothing about the fairness of the system--you need to look at system level data and policy for that. Yes, each of us can do more for self-discipline--it doesn't mean each of us shouldn't also be calling for more justice in the financial system.
Anonymous
09/16/2019 08:38
Subject: Study shows that 350k/year is barely scrapping by as middle class
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Both sides debating this are idiotic. Yes, its fun to come up with wacky hypothetical to test principles. But you are all wasting your time. Some rich billionaire has paid alot to incite class warfare and you guys are falling for it.
Here is the truth: Everyone who has to work for a living lives a very, very different lifestyle from those that don't. Some make more and some make less. Maybe some are rich. As long as the capital gains tax rate is less than the maximal income tax rate, and as long as the Warren Buffets of the world pay a lower tax rates than their secretaries, we are all losing.
When a NY City police officer pays a higher tax rate than a hedge fund manager, that's capitalism?
When an NFL owner gets YOU to pay for his stadium, that's capitalism?
Unfortunately, 40% of the country thinks it is.
Stop lying. Earned income is taxed differently than wage income. Do you even know why? My guess is you don’t.
Let me guess, because they're "job creators"? Next time you call 911, ask for a hedge fund manager and see what he can offer.
Mainly because the fund manager income has already been taxed before, the amount he earns now due to investments increasing is taxed at 23.8% which is slightly lower than some of those significantly lower paid professions.
Anonymous
09/16/2019 08:21
Subject: Study shows that 350k/year is barely scrapping by as middle class
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Both sides debating this are idiotic. Yes, its fun to come up with wacky hypothetical to test principles. But you are all wasting your time. Some rich billionaire has paid alot to incite class warfare and you guys are falling for it.
Here is the truth: Everyone who has to work for a living lives a very, very different lifestyle from those that don't. Some make more and some make less. Maybe some are rich. As long as the capital gains tax rate is less than the maximal income tax rate, and as long as the Warren Buffets of the world pay a lower tax rates than their secretaries, we are all losing.
When a NY City police officer pays a higher tax rate than a hedge fund manager, that's capitalism?
When an NFL owner gets YOU to pay for his stadium, that's capitalism?
Unfortunately, 40% of the country thinks it is.
Stop lying. Earned income is taxed differently than wage income. Do you even know why? My guess is you don’t.
Let me guess, because they're "job creators"? Next time you call 911, ask for a hedge fund manager and see what he can offer.
Anonymous
09/16/2019 06:41
Subject: Study shows that 350k/year is barely scrapping by as middle class
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Buffett, bezos, & gates, are all self made, not old money. Your conspiracy theory doesn’t hold up well. Money certainly tends to influence power, and corruption always has to be fought against.
Bezos and Gates came from VERY wealthy families.
Gates went to a private school and his father was a University of Washington professor. I doubt he would have fallen on hard times if Microsoft failed.
They weren’t ‘old money’ wealthy which the conspiracy poster argues is running the world. Look a janitor can spend his life saving and rack up a million dollars to donate. Similarly, lottery winners usual blow through millions. It’s is behavior in spending and saving, not conspiring elites, that determines your financial status, for most people born in or who make it to the us. Take a Dave Ramsey course. Learn how to discipline yourself. Stop blaming ‘the system’ or ‘the elites’ or ‘the taxes’ or whatever.
Ah yes. All the people making minimum wage just aren’t saving hard enough. That’s it.
Ignore increasing inequality at your own peril. It’s brought many a dynasty down before.
Anonymous
09/15/2019 21:47
Subject: Study shows that 350k/year is barely scrapping by as middle class
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Buffett, bezos, & gates, are all self made, not old money. Your conspiracy theory doesn’t hold up well. Money certainly tends to influence power, and corruption always has to be fought against.
Bezos and Gates came from VERY wealthy families.
Gates went to a private school and his father was a University of Washington professor. I doubt he would have fallen on hard times if Microsoft failed.
They weren’t ‘old money’ wealthy which the conspiracy poster argues is running the world. Look a janitor can spend his life saving and rack up a million dollars to donate. Similarly, lottery winners usual blow through millions. It’s is behavior in spending and saving, not conspiring elites, that determines your financial status, for most people born in or who make it to the us. Take a Dave Ramsey course. Learn how to discipline yourself. Stop blaming ‘the system’ or ‘the elites’ or ‘the taxes’ or whatever.
No conspiracy theories needed. The truth is in the tax code, plain for all to see.
https://americansfortaxfairness.org/tax-fairness-briefing-booklet/fact-sheet-taxing-wealthy-americans/
Anonymous
09/15/2019 21:08
Subject: Study shows that 350k/year is barely scrapping by as middle class
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Both sides debating this are idiotic. Yes, its fun to come up with wacky hypothetical to test principles. But you are all wasting your time. Some rich billionaire has paid alot to incite class warfare and you guys are falling for it.
Here is the truth: Everyone who has to work for a living lives a very, very different lifestyle from those that don't. Some make more and some make less. Maybe some are rich. As long as the capital gains tax rate is less than the maximal income tax rate, and as long as the Warren Buffets of the world pay a lower tax rates than their secretaries, we are all losing.
When a NY City police officer pays a higher tax rate than a hedge fund manager, that's capitalism?
When an NFL owner gets YOU to pay for his stadium, that's capitalism?
Unfortunately, 40% of the country thinks it is.
Stop lying. Earned income is taxed differently than wage income. Do you even know why? My guess is you don’t.
You lost me.
Per irs.gov: What qualifies as earned income?
For the year you are filing, earned income includes all income from employment, but only if it is includable in gross income. Examples of earned income are: wages; salaries; tips; and other taxable employee compensation. Earned income also includes net earnings from self-employment.
Anonymous
09/15/2019 20:39
Subject: Study shows that 350k/year is barely scrapping by as middle class
The title of this thread has me imagining UMC folks in some sort of fight club.
Anonymous
09/15/2019 20:35
Subject: Study shows that 350k/year is barely scrapping by as middle class
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Buffett, bezos, & gates, are all self made, not old money. Your conspiracy theory doesn’t hold up well. Money certainly tends to influence power, and corruption always has to be fought against.
Bezos and Gates came from VERY wealthy families.
Gates went to a private school and his father was a University of Washington professor. I doubt he would have fallen on hard times if Microsoft failed.
They weren’t ‘old money’ wealthy which the conspiracy poster argues is running the world. Look a janitor can spend his life saving and rack up a million dollars to donate. Similarly, lottery winners usual blow through millions. It’s is behavior in spending and saving, not conspiring elites, that determines your financial status, for most people born in or who make it to the us. Take a Dave Ramsey course. Learn how to discipline yourself. Stop blaming ‘the system’ or ‘the elites’ or ‘the taxes’ or whatever.
Anonymous
09/15/2019 13:21
Subject: Study shows that 350k/year is barely scrapping by as middle class
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Both sides debating this are idiotic. Yes, its fun to come up with wacky hypothetical to test principles. But you are all wasting your time. Some rich billionaire has paid alot to incite class warfare and you guys are falling for it.
Here is the truth: Everyone who has to work for a living lives a very, very different lifestyle from those that don't. Some make more and some make less. Maybe some are rich. As long as the capital gains tax rate is less than the maximal income tax rate, and as long as the Warren Buffets of the world pay a lower tax rates than their secretaries, we are all losing.
When a NY City police officer pays a higher tax rate than a hedge fund manager, that's capitalism?
When an NFL owner gets YOU to pay for his stadium, that's capitalism?
Unfortunately, 40% of the country thinks it is.
Stop lying. Earned income is taxed differently than wage income. Do you even know why? My guess is you don’t.
Hedge funds carried interest scam is indefensible.
Anonymous
09/15/2019 13:16
Subject: Study shows that 350k/year is barely scrapping by as middle class
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Donald Trumps Mother is the most self maid person.
She was a maid scrubbing toilets who barely spoke a work of English and did not go to High School and held that family together and her Son became President.
Donald May be a jerk but his mom pure gold. She was the mediator between Fred and Donald
Donald Trump's mother raised what might be our worst person, who somehow became president. Gold? Sorry, no.
Yeah, “pure gold” is not the term you’re looking for. She may have worked her ass off in difficult circumstances, yes. But no person of character and integrity raises a human that turns out like Donald Trump. And I say this as a lifelong Republican.
Anonymous
09/15/2019 12:36
Subject: Study shows that 350k/year is barely scrapping by as middle class
Anonymous wrote:Both sides debating this are idiotic. Yes, its fun to come up with wacky hypothetical to test principles. But you are all wasting your time. Some rich billionaire has paid alot to incite class warfare and you guys are falling for it.
Here is the truth: Everyone who has to work for a living lives a very, very different lifestyle from those that don't. Some make more and some make less. Maybe some are rich. As long as the capital gains tax rate is less than the maximal income tax rate, and as long as the Warren Buffets of the world pay a lower tax rates than their secretaries, we are all losing.
When a NY City police officer pays a higher tax rate than a hedge fund manager, that's capitalism?
When an NFL owner gets YOU to pay for his stadium, that's capitalism?
Unfortunately, 40% of the country thinks it is.
Stop lying. Earned income is taxed differently than wage income. Do you even know why? My guess is you don’t.