Anonymous
08/04/2019 15:57
Subject: Re:Do fat women who are Body-Positive really love being fat?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:The level of denial in this thread is astounding. People are really arguing that obesity is not linked to health problems?
People are not arguing that here.
They are arguing that most efforts to lose weight, especially when accompanied by shaming, tend to backfire. Therefore -- and this is the point you are missing -- you should stop doing counterproductive things and try to find methods that are actually productive.
I’m not advocating for shaming at all. Stop projecting
Not that pp, but I am curious to know exactly what you’re advocating because it isn’t clear to me. You think that fat people don’t realize they are fat and need that to be pointed out to them?
No I’m saying that there are people who take the HAES movement/body positivity movement and convince themselves that being obese is healthy. It’s not. It’s one thing to promote self-esteem/loving yourself /treating others with respect. It’s another to say being fat is not detrimental to your health.
Eh, fat people aren’t stupid. They know they’re fat. Some have chosen not to put their energy into losing weight. They have accepted that they are fat and that isn’t going to change for them. It takes willpower, determination and work to get the weight off. That isn’t something that you can do for another person. They need to want it and they need to make it a top priority for themselves - day in, day out for months or years at a time. If they prefer to put their energy elsewhere it’s understandable and I don’t judge them for it. Let them enjoy their lives, let them feel good about all of their many other accomplishments. hyper focusing on their weight is not inspiring nor is it helpful.
Anonymous
08/04/2019 15:32
Subject: Re:Do fat women who are Body-Positive really love being fat?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:The level of denial in this thread is astounding. People are really arguing that obesity is not linked to health problems?
People are not arguing that here.
They are arguing that most efforts to lose weight, especially when accompanied by shaming, tend to backfire. Therefore -- and this is the point you are missing -- you should stop doing counterproductive things and try to find methods that are actually productive.
I’m not advocating for shaming at all. Stop projecting
Not that pp, but I am curious to know exactly what you’re advocating because it isn’t clear to me. You think that fat people don’t realize they are fat and need that to be pointed out to them?
No I’m saying that there are people who take the HAES movement/body positivity movement and convince themselves that being obese is healthy. It’s not. It’s one thing to promote self-esteem/loving yourself /treating others with respect. It’s another to say being fat is not detrimental to your health.
Anonymous
08/04/2019 15:29
Subject: Do fat women who are Body-Positive really love being fat?
Anonymous wrote:I am advocating for accepting people as they are and not shaming them. Shaming doesn't make people lose weight.
If being obese healthy? No.
Can it be really hard to lose weight if your body wishes to hold onto weight at all costs? Yes.
I've had to love and accept my body, IN ORDER to lose weight. And to be ok with how slowly I lose weight, and not be able to eat any sugar at all, and having to only eat vegetables and fruits and meats/fish with only herbs and no dairy whatsover. And watch my "skinny" friends eat dessert and drink alcohol every time we go out, while I drink my yummy glass of water with the meal and for dessert.
Wish my mom had understood that and had stopped calling me "disgusting." Little did she know that no one else would show up to take care of her at the end of her life, except her "fat" daughter.
I agree with you! Shaming doesn’t work. Self acceptance does. And you can’t get there by hating yourself and feeling ashamed of yourself.
Anonymous
08/04/2019 15:19
Subject: Do fat women who are Body-Positive really love being fat?
Anonymous wrote:Yes, you can cite studies of correlation.
Do you understand why that does not translate well into differences in outcomes for treatment?DO you have studies that show longterm outcomes (of the kind you are pushing for) in management of obesity?
Show me outcomes data. That's what we're talking about, right? Not whether obesity is associated with certain outcomes, but what sort of intervention can effect positive change in those outcomes in people overall? Otherwise, you're just wanking off and getting high on judging people.
(Hint: fat-shaming is not effective. It's counterproductive, but at least you get to feel superior as you lead people to greater fatness, amirite?)
I do hope you are not a PA or NP. If so, you should be better trained.
I think you're talking to me, and I have not once, ever, shamed a patient about their weight. For starters, they're all sedated and intubated by the point I meet them, so they'd hear neither shame nor encouragement.
I didn't cite research in support of effective interventions or treatment, if you stop pontificating for a second and go back and reread what wrote. I offered compelling evidence that obesity is correlated, yes, to all-cause morbidity. There are several posters on this thread who have stated otherwise, page after page, and I am responding to them. They are wrong.
Anonymous
08/04/2019 15:18
Subject: Do fat women who are Body-Positive really love being fat?
I am advocating for accepting people as they are and not shaming them. Shaming doesn't make people lose weight.
If being obese healthy? No.
Can it be really hard to lose weight if your body wishes to hold onto weight at all costs? Yes.
I've had to love and accept my body, IN ORDER to lose weight. And to be ok with how slowly I lose weight, and not be able to eat any sugar at all, and having to only eat vegetables and fruits and meats/fish with only herbs and no dairy whatsover. And watch my "skinny" friends eat dessert and drink alcohol every time we go out, while I drink my yummy glass of water with the meal and for dessert.
Wish my mom had understood that and had stopped calling me "disgusting." Little did she know that no one else would show up to take care of her at the end of her life, except her "fat" daughter.
If being obese healthy? No.
Can it be really hard to lose weight if your body wishes to hold onto weight at all costs? Yes.
I've had to love and accept my body, IN ORDER to lose weight. And to be ok with how slowly I lose weight, and not be able to eat any sugar at all, and having to only eat vegetables and fruits and meats/fish with only herbs and no dairy whatsover. And watch my "skinny" friends eat dessert and drink alcohol every time we go out, while I drink my yummy glass of water with the meal and for dessert.
Wish my mom had understood that and had stopped calling me "disgusting." Little did she know that no one else would show up to take care of her at the end of her life, except her "fat" daughter.
Anonymous
08/04/2019 15:12
Subject: Re:Do fat women who are Body-Positive really love being fat?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:The level of denial in this thread is astounding. People are really arguing that obesity is not linked to health problems?
People are not arguing that here.
They are arguing that most efforts to lose weight, especially when accompanied by shaming, tend to backfire. Therefore -- and this is the point you are missing -- you should stop doing counterproductive things and try to find methods that are actually productive.
I’m not advocating for shaming at all. Stop projecting
Not that pp, but I am curious to know exactly what you’re advocating because it isn’t clear to me. You think that fat people don’t realize they are fat and need that to be pointed out to them?
Anonymous
08/04/2019 15:08
Subject: Re:Do fat women who are Body-Positive really love being fat?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:The level of denial in this thread is astounding. People are really arguing that obesity is not linked to health problems?
People are not arguing that here.
They are arguing that most efforts to lose weight, especially when accompanied by shaming, tend to backfire. Therefore -- and this is the point you are missing -- you should stop doing counterproductive things and try to find methods that are actually productive.
I’m not advocating for shaming at all. Stop projecting
Anonymous
08/04/2019 15:04
Subject: Re:Do fat women who are Body-Positive really love being fat?
Huh. You keep demonstrating further and further your basic lack of statistics understanding. How embarrassing.
Hey - can you explain in a couple of sentences how statistics might be used to refute the statement that obesity contributes to disease? For the rest of us following this thread.
or, why do you keep talking about statistics as they relate to obesity and health? What is their role
Anonymous
08/04/2019 15:04
Subject: Do fat women who are Body-Positive really love being fat?
I think it’s ridiculous to shame or ridicule people for being fat. I recently lost 50 pounds and I do feel much healthier. I’m still the same person that I was 50 pounds ago. I’m no more smart or worthy now than I was 8 months ago. My metabolism hasn’t changed and I still put on weight ridiculously easy but if I gain a pound or two I am resigned to doing what I need to do to take it right back off. Weight maintenance is definitely easier than losing a substantial amount of weight is. Unless you have actually put forth the tremendous effort that it takes to maintain a calorie deficit (under eat) for months and even years at a time, I truly don’t think you can appreciate how difficult it is to take the weight off. Count your blessings that you haven’t had to deal with it and be nice.
Anonymous
08/04/2019 14:52
Subject: Do fat women who are Body-Positive really love being fat?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:God, the Reddit fatlogic trolls are so dumb. It's embarrassing.
Not a troll. It’s true. It’s one thing to love yourself no matter what; it’s another to convince yourself that being fat doesn’t come with all sorts of health consequences.
Like I said, really really stupid.
Signed,
Related to an obesity researcher who is an author of several of those studies you are too dim to understand.
NP here. I work in health care on a critical care team at a large hospital. Every single day that I go to work, I physically put my hands on people who are typically at the end of their lives in the ICU (non-trauma ICU; medical).
Obesity, and especially morbid obesity like Tess H., is a comorbidity that shortens the lifespan, and is a disease independent of other factors. I have a feeling your relative does cellular research, right? I witness the last breaths of dying people every single week and you know what? The large majority of them are fat. Many are profoundly fat, >350 lbs (male and female).
Show me data that contradict my lived professional experience, PP
You don't understand statistics, do you.
I do - every rigorous population study has correlated very high body mass with increased mortality. I naively offered some anecdata from my job that happens to wholly support actual research-generated data. You won't click on these links but I'll include this well-done for anyone who's curious and not in abject denial. The second meta-analysis looks at data 10 million people from several continents. 10 million.
Is that enough "statistics" for you?
https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/1555137
JAMA: Association of All-Cause Mortality With Overweight and Obesity Using Standard Body Mass Index Categories — A Systematic Review and Meta-analysis
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0140673616301751
the Lancet: Body-mass index and all-cause mortality: individual-participant-data meta-analysis of 239 prospective studies in four continents
Huh. You keep demonstrating further and further your basic lack of statistics understanding. How embarrassing.
Anonymous
08/04/2019 14:48
Subject: Re:Do fat women who are Body-Positive really love being fat?
Anonymous wrote:The level of denial in this thread is astounding. People are really arguing that obesity is not linked to health problems?
People are not arguing that here.
They are arguing that most efforts to lose weight, especially when accompanied by shaming, tend to backfire. Therefore -- and this is the point you are missing -- you should stop doing counterproductive things and try to find methods that are actually productive.
Anonymous
08/04/2019 14:46
Subject: Do fat women who are Body-Positive really love being fat?
Yes, you can cite studies of correlation.
Do you understand why that does not translate well into differences in outcomes for treatment?DO you have studies that show longterm outcomes (of the kind you are pushing for) in management of obesity?
Show me outcomes data. That's what we're talking about, right? Not whether obesity is associated with certain outcomes, but what sort of intervention can effect positive change in those outcomes in people overall? Otherwise, you're just wanking off and getting high on judging people.
(Hint: fat-shaming is not effective. It's counterproductive, but at least you get to feel superior as you lead people to greater fatness, amirite?)
I do hope you are not a PA or NP. If so, you should be better trained.
Do you understand why that does not translate well into differences in outcomes for treatment?DO you have studies that show longterm outcomes (of the kind you are pushing for) in management of obesity?
Show me outcomes data. That's what we're talking about, right? Not whether obesity is associated with certain outcomes, but what sort of intervention can effect positive change in those outcomes in people overall? Otherwise, you're just wanking off and getting high on judging people.
(Hint: fat-shaming is not effective. It's counterproductive, but at least you get to feel superior as you lead people to greater fatness, amirite?)
I do hope you are not a PA or NP. If so, you should be better trained.
Anonymous
08/04/2019 14:42
Subject: Re:Do fat women who are Body-Positive really love being fat?
The level of denial in this thread is astounding. People are really arguing that obesity is not linked to health problems?
Anonymous
08/04/2019 14:23
Subject: Do fat women who are Body-Positive really love being fat?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:God, the Reddit fatlogic trolls are so dumb. It's embarrassing.
Not a troll. It’s true. It’s one thing to love yourself no matter what; it’s another to convince yourself that being fat doesn’t come with all sorts of health consequences.
Like I said, really really stupid.
Signed,
Related to an obesity researcher who is an author of several of those studies you are too dim to understand.
NP here. I work in health care on a critical care team at a large hospital. Every single day that I go to work, I physically put my hands on people who are typically at the end of their lives in the ICU (non-trauma ICU; medical).
Obesity, and especially morbid obesity like Tess H., is a comorbidity that shortens the lifespan, and is a disease independent of other factors. I have a feeling your relative does cellular research, right? I witness the last breaths of dying people every single week and you know what? The large majority of them are fat. Many are profoundly fat, >350 lbs (male and female).
Show me data that contradict my lived professional experience, PP
You don't understand statistics, do you.
I do - every rigorous population study has correlated very high body mass with increased mortality. I naively offered some anecdata from my job that happens to wholly support actual research-generated data. You won't click on these links but I'll include this well-done for anyone who's curious and not in abject denial. The second meta-analysis looks at data 10 million people from several continents. 10 million.
Is that enough "statistics" for you?
https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/1555137
JAMA: Association of All-Cause Mortality With Overweight and Obesity Using Standard Body Mass Index Categories — A Systematic Review and Meta-analysis
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0140673616301751
the Lancet: Body-mass index and all-cause mortality: individual-participant-data meta-analysis of 239 prospective studies in four continents
Anonymous
08/04/2019 14:03
Subject: Do fat women who are Body-Positive really love being fat?
They are too slow, PP.