Anonymous wrote:My kid wanted a SLAC, liked many of these schools (and the price was right in their offers--they were often same or less than our in-state public costs). One thing I did to help narrow down was to confirm which schools had greater than 120,000 K per capita endowment AND were in the top 75 in US News and World Report. This shrunk the list of 40 down to these 13:

Agnes Scott College
Beloit College
Centre College
Denison
Kalamazoo
Lawrence University
Rhodes
St. Johns (MD)
University of Puget Sound
Wabash
Wheaton
Whitman
College of Wooster

We found this a bit more manageable to then look at individually for fit/location etc. than the very diverse list. Putting a "filter" like this on options, allowed me to feel more comfortable letting my daughter make her own decisions. For instance, from this list, DD cut out any strong religious orientation (e.g. she was okay with St Olaf mild religious background, not with Wheaton) and single-sex male (i.e., Wabash). But I knew that any of them were reasonably strong, rigorous institutions in decent financial shape.

This is a very sensible approach.

My DC, who struggled in HS (DC was a good, not great student, terrible organizational skills) graduated this year from a CTCL school that provided tremendous supports of all kinds. DC developed strong relationships with professors and with a few people in the career center.

Last summer, DC had an internship (thank you, career center and CTCL alums) at which they did very well. At the end of the summer, the employer made an excellent job offer to DC, including great benefits and insurance. DC put them off for a time while applying to other jobs, and received several great offers from which to choose.

Ultimately, DC negotiated with the best one and got more money ($76K/year) and vacation time, and will start work there after Labor Day.

For a kid who couldn't manage to hand in homework in high school, DC has done an amazing job of getting a great education and marketable skills. The past four years have been amazing, thanks to the CTCL school, which provided a great education and supports. I will be forever grateful to them and will participate in their fundraising enthusiastically for as long as I can.

My kid wanted a SLAC, liked many of these schools (and the price was right in their offers--they were often same or less than our in-state public costs). One thing I did to help narrow down was to confirm which schools had greater than 120,000 K per capita endowment AND were in the top 75 in US News and World Report. This shrunk the list of 40 down to these 13:

Agnes Scott College
Beloit College
Centre College
Denison
Kalamazoo
Lawrence University
Rhodes
St. Johns (MD)
University of Puget Sound
Wabash
Wheaton
Whitman
College of Wooster

We found this a bit more manageable to then look at individually for fit/location etc. than the very diverse list. Putting a "filter" like this on options, allowed me to feel more comfortable letting my daughter make her own decisions. For instance, from this list, DD cut out any strong religious orientation (e.g. she was okay with St Olaf mild religious background, not with Wheaton) and single-sex male (i.e., Wabash). But I knew that any of them were reasonably strong, rigorous institutions in decent financial shape.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I believe one of the schools on the list, Hampshire, is going through bankruptcy. That sure qualifies the school as changing students’ lives going forward.

One of the Lacs in previous CTCL grouping did go under. My own SLAC, now a LAC is soon to go under (just check endowment on wiki) but I don't want to draw attention to it.

What CTCL LAC went under? Hampshire seems to be holding out for now at least. Endowment isn't the best/only predictor of sustainability--but rather relationship between operating expenses and income and whether any assets can be sold.

Anonymous wrote:I believe one of the schools on the list, Hampshire, is going through bankruptcy. That sure qualifies the school as changing students’ lives going forward.

One of the Lacs in previous CTCL grouping did go under. My own SLAC, now a LAC is soon to go under (just check endowment on wiki) but I don't want to draw attention to it.

I believe one of the schools on the list, Hampshire, is going through bankruptcy. That sure qualifies the school as changing students’ lives going forward.

People make sweeping references to the list because it is shorthand for a "type" of school. Of course the family then has to do their own due diligence. But it includes schools that may not have crossed their radar screen.

The list was originally curated by the NY Times Education editor (not exactly a college marketer, but maybe the naysayers are ignorant as it its origins).

If you are the type of person who relies entirely on ratings (rather than nuanced evaluation, and the notion of "fit") then you probably won't stray too far from USNWR anyway.

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Anonymous wrote:This thread has been very entertaining. Both sides of this CTCL debate make good points. There’s nothing special about many of these schools but I think the anti-CTLC crowd is painting with a broad brush. There are a couple excellent schools on that list. Let’s look at this from the standpoint of academic quality and rigor. What makes Williams/UVA/Harvard that much better academically than a place like Reed or St. John’s in Annapolis? If we’re going to talk about “tiers” I’d say Reed and St. John’s are both first tier schools academically.

Agree that there is nothing special about this list. You could call me part of the “anti-CTCL crowd” but I do not agree with the obnoxious “hiring manager” above who criticizes these schools because they are not well known or top tier.

I just think it is ridiculous to praise all the CTCL schools just because they are on this useless list. But it is just as bad to criticize them all.

I realize that USN&WR is not a great measure of quality, but some of these schools are ranked as high as 43rd in top LACs (Denison and Whitman) and have excellent graduation and retention rates. But many aren’t even in the top 150 and have horrible graduation and retention rates. They have little in common.

This is why the list is so meaningless. It only currently exists to collect fees from its members.

+1 well said

We went to the large CTCL fair and found it very helpful.
Almost every college on the list had a rep at the table who spoke passionately about the offerings.
DD felt very informed and easy to get a feel for each school without visiting campus.
Rhodes was the only school she applied/accepted to but did not attend.

Recommend the fair for any student who is just starting on the journey and interested in LACs.

No, it exists because they share a philosophy/values and are trying to engender a certain sense of community.

People who want that come in all shapes and sizes, so it is good that they cover a range of selectivities.

Anonymous wrote:This thread has been very entertaining. Both sides of this CTCL debate make good points. There’s nothing special about many of these schools but I think the anti-CTLC crowd is painting with a broad brush. There are a couple excellent schools on that list. Let’s look at this from the standpoint of academic quality and rigor. What makes Williams/UVA/Harvard that much better academically than a place like Reed or St. John’s in Annapolis? If we’re going to talk about “tiers” I’d say Reed and St. John’s are both first tier schools academically.

Agree that there is nothing special about this list. You could call me part of the “anti-CTCL crowd” but I do not agree with the obnoxious “hiring manager” above who criticizes these schools because they are not well known or top tier.

I just think it is ridiculous to praise all the CTCL schools just because they are on this useless list. But it is just as bad to criticize them all.

I realize that USN&WR is not a great measure of quality, but some of these schools are ranked as high as 43rd in top LACs (Denison and Whitman) and have excellent graduation and retention rates. But many aren’t even in the top 150 and have horrible graduation and retention rates. They have little in common.

This is why the list is so meaningless. It only currently exists to collect fees from its members.

This thread has been very entertaining. Both sides of this CTCL debate make good points. There’s nothing special about many of these schools but I think the anti-CTLC crowd is painting with a broad brush. There are a couple excellent schools on that list. Let’s look at this from the standpoint of academic quality and rigor. What makes Williams/UVA/Harvard that much better academically than a place like Reed or St. John’s in Annapolis? If we’re going to talk about “tiers” I’d say Reed and St. John’s are both first tier schools academically.

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Anonymous wrote:It’s really sounding like the kids that go to these schools aren’t actually ready for college but have parents with a lot of money who just push it along. I’ll bet a year or two in community college would’ve a much better and more cost effective approach.

And it really sounds to me like you are doing some selective reading of this post. There have been several, including me, who’ve posted saying either they or their child had been accepted to higher ranked or much more prestigious/selective colleges but decided to attend a CTCL.

So you went to some third tier LAC......great, I’m glad it worked out so brilliantly for you.

This is obviously a troll, but I see a similar lack of awareness of the higher ed landscape in more well-intentioned discussions. There are well over 1500 liberal arts colleges in the US. The bulk of the CTCL schools are in the top 100--many in the top 50 or 75--of USNWR. These are schools that are included in the Princeton Review etc. which is meeting a bar that the vast majority of colleges in this country don't meet. They routinely send people to work in top firms, to elite grad programs etc. People need to get a clearer view on the full range of colleges in the US when thinking about tiers. Are these schools in the same league as Swarthmore, Grinnell, Williams etc.? No. Many drift nearer to and further away from colleges just outside the top 20 like Oberlin, Kenyon etc. But they have stronger entering profiles of students and student outcomes than many state flagships (not the UVA's and the Uof Ms) and the vast, vast majority of liberal arts colleges in the US.

Simply not true. Go ask any hiring manager of a large firm like myself if they even know what CTCL is. They won't. They don't. They are looking for solid employees who are well-educated (and hey that can include great public schools as well which are a lot cheaper than CTCL) who will show up on time and perform well and not be a SJW or PITA on the job. Any child that has been coddled through his or her education will not perform in the marketplace and employers know that.

All your post does, hiring manager, is display your ignorance.

^^ +1. Exactly. So a hiring manager thinks kids who to to Emory & Henry or Olaf or Eckerd can't show up on time because of where they went to college? You're a crappy judgmental HR person. Sorry that HR is all you could find yourself doing

Of course not, but a hiring manager does know the difference between Swarthmore or Pomona College and Juniata. And they will value the high GPA from the former schools over the latter.

Totally agree about Allegheny. The town is downright scary. I bet they wish they could just transplant themselves. But if they did, I can’t imagine how much further the town might fall. (Examples: biker bars, addicts nodding out on public benches, only store we saw was Goodwill, the nicest B&B in town is next to a boarded up building) Very Sad.

Anonymous wrote:My child had a very successful first year at Juniata.

Happy to hear! My son is looking at the school and we are curious to hear feedback from those with experience.

Anonymous wrote:What is the reputation of Allegheny? My child is being recruited to play a sport. His pre-read looks like he would get a very good merit scholarship.

You need to visit. We went with high hopes. We really liked the school - very pretty campus. But, the town was a huge turn off. It is in the middle of hard times. Lots of empty storefronts. We were told this but could not believe it. It was not good. The only positive spin we were able to give was that there was a lot of opportunity to serve the community. We were really thinking people were being snobby when they talked about the town and perhaps it was just a working class town but it was a lot worse than that.